Flash

gubbs

I've needed to use the flash a few times recently, and could do with some advice....

How does the camera meter for light in the various modes when you are using the flash?




e.g. for shots like this one, using fill flash, I have set the camera to A priority. Will the camera meter on the frame or does it compensate for the flash??

Thanks

ginger_55

Uh, Gubbs, is that a recent shot in your part of the world? The weather?

Cold? Here it is cooling down, also. The highs are only in the seventies. Don't know about the lows, but still "shorts" weather.

Just wanted to comment, like the shot, makes me chilly, though.

I would like to know, in a non technical way, the answer to your question, too.
I have not been using the flash. The on camera flash, I use it for baptisms, but the Sunpak I bought, never used. At the baptisms, the on camera, Rebel, it does throw shadows on the wall, which I no longer tediously remove. I can't bounce it, even my husband says that if I got the Sunpak out I could not bounce it, as it is one of those high ceilings.

I go through spells, now is a camera only, no flash, no whatever. I went through a long spell, maybe six months where I used the flash on the Elph no matter where I was. Pictures were good, I didn't mind whatever bad thing they were doing. However, I might now. I look back at some of my older pictures, and they do need a bit of work.

It should be appreciated what an accomplisment it was to get me to use the tripod a bit.

ginger

wxwax

Gubbs, I have no business responding, as I'm not at all technical. But I believe the camera automatically compensates for the flash. And the flash is king. The camera will properly expose anything within the flash's range. Which means that things outside of the flash's range will not necessarily be correctly exposed.

Oh, and that's a wonderful shot! Great light and great subject. Plus, the daylight was strong enough to assert itself despite the flash.

gubbs

ginger_55 wrote:

Uh, Gubbs, is that a recent shot in your part of the world? The weather?

Cold? Here it is cooling down, also. The highs are only in the seventies. Don't know about the lows, but still "shorts" weather.

Just wanted to comment, like the shot, makes me chilly, though.

I would like to know, in a non technical way, the answer to your question, too.
I have not been using the flash. The on camera flash, I use it for baptisms, but the Sunpak I bought, never used. At the baptisms, the on camera, Rebel, it does throw shadows on the wall, which I no longer tediously remove. I can't bounce it, even my husband says that if I got the Sunpak out I could not bounce it, as it is one of those high ceilings.

I go through spells, now is a camera only, no flash, no whatever. I went through a long spell, maybe six months where I used the flash on the Elph no matter where I was. Pictures were good, I didn't mind whatever bad thing they were doing. However, I might now. I look back at some of my older pictures, and they do need a bit of work.

It should be appreciated what an accomplisment it was to get me to use the tripod a bit.

ginger

No ginger its not that cold, my wife is just dramatic the wind gives her ear ache, I think I had a T shirt and cotton jacket on

gubbs

wxwax wrote:

Gubbs, I have no business responding, as I'm not at all technical. But I believe the camera automatically compensates for the flash. And the flash is king. The camera will properly expose anything within the flash's range. Which means that things outside of the flash's range will not necessarily be correctly exposed.

Oh, and that's a wonderful shot! Great light and great subject. Plus, the daylight was strong enough to assert itself despite the flash.

Thanks Sid,
I took a couple of others where the fill flash was too strong. They looked like composites because of the differences in the light of the subject and the background (see the snap below). I'm just trying to understand how the camera deals with it to hopefully get a bit more control. I'll just keep messing!

Thanks again

wxwax

Personally, I quite like the shots where the fill flash makes the foreground a little unreal. I respect your willingness to figure out how it all works, so that you can better control it. When you've done all the hard work, be sure to share what you've learned!

tmlphoto

With my 10D the flash is fill flash on Av mode. You can adjust it up or down with the flash compensation function. The background exposes the same as if there is no flash if I'm not mistaken. On Auto or Program mode the flash is "king" and will determine the exposure. I did some outdoor portraits in Av mode and adjusted the flash output with the flash compensation until I got the balance I wanted between the the foreground subject and the background. I just took some test shots until I got it like I wanted it. I think every camera handles it a little differently so your mileage may vary. There is also an automatic setting on the 10D (outdoor portrait or something like that) that will expose the background according to the meter reading and use the flash to correctly expose the foreground. Maybe your camera has a similar function? I haven't used it, but it sounds good in theory.

gubbs

tmlphoto wrote:

With my 10D the flash is fill flash on Av mode. You can adjust it up or down with the flash compensation function. The background exposes the same as if there is no flash if I'm not mistaken. On Auto or Program mode the flash is "king" and will determine the exposure. I did some outdoor portraits in Av mode and adjusted the flash output with the flash compensation until I got the balance I wanted between the the foreground subject and the background. I just took some test shots until I got it like I wanted it. I think every camera handles it a little differently so your mileage may vary. There is also an automatic setting on the 10D (outdoor portrait or something like that) that will expose the background according to the meter reading and use the flash to correctly expose the foreground. Maybe your camera has a similar function? I haven't used it, but it sounds good in theory.

Thanks Thomas,
useful stuff

mercphoto

Flash
I don't have my 300D's manual in front of me, and the 20D manual is in the car and I'm too lazy to get it, but there is a way to make the camera fire a small test-burst of light with the shutter held half-way. The camera then reads the reflected light to determine the flash exposure. I've found this to be a more accurate way of getting a properly exposed flash picture.

If memory serves, on the 300D you enable the flash unit, then hold the shutter half-way, press the * button, it fires a small burst of light, continue to hold that * button, then press the shutter all the way down. But look it up in the manual, I could have a detail wrong.

tmlphoto

mercphoto wrote:

I don't have my 300D's manual in front of me, and the 20D manual is in the car and I'm too lazy to get it, but there is a way to make the camera fire a small test-burst of light with the shutter held half-way. The camera then reads the reflected light to determine the flash exposure. I've found this to be a more accurate way of getting a properly exposed flash picture.

If memory serves, on the 300D you enable the flash unit, then hold the shutter half-way, press the * button, it fires a small burst of light, continue to hold that * button, then press the shutter all the way down. But look it up in the manual, I could have a detail wrong.

The way I understand the Canon E-TTL flash is the everytime the flash fires it actually fires twice. The first pulse is used to measure the light that reflects back, and the second pulse is main flash adjusted using the info that the camera gains from the first pulse. The E-TTL II is supposed to be better at analyzing the first flash and adjusting the flash output more accurately.

mercphoto

E-ttl

tmlphoto wrote:

The way I understand the Canon E-TTL flash is the everytime the flash fires it actually fires twice. The first pulse is used to measure the light that reflects back, and the second pulse is main flash adjusted using the info that the camera gains from the first pulse. The E-TTL II is supposed to be better at analyzing the first flash and adjusting the flash output more accurately.

I know that E-TTL II is supposed to be much better than E-TTL. You might be right about the specific details above. All I really know is that flash metering technology is getting really, really good. About the only reason to use spot meters anymore is if you want complete control over exposure. Such as "I want her face exposed the very same as the cloud above her and don't care about the tree to the left".

mercphoto

Flash oddness
Ok, I had a chance yesterday to do some indoor flash work for a conference. Found some strange things. Was using a 20D, a rented 550EX, and my 28-135 lens, which is a f/3.5-5.6 lens with image stabilization.

For example, Program mode worked usually flawlessly in terms of exposure. It selects 1/60 shutter and lens wide-open and adjusts flash output as required. The problems would be if the speaker was moving (arms waving, or him walking, etc.). I found I could use this mode at times when the speaker was stationary.

Aperture priority mode kind of fooled me. For example, if I stepped down the opening to f/7.1 the camera would sometimes choose a faster shutter. Strange.

In shutter priority I would choose 1/100 or 1/125 in an attempt to solve the "blurry arm waving" problem. The camera would complain by flashing the aperture value that it would be under-exposed. I think this is normal. I got mixed results in Tv mode, though I often wanted to use it.

I don't think using a faster lens would have been of any help. I would not really want a shallow DOF anyway. But it might help with focus issues. I also did not try a flash exposure lock either.

What do people who shoot indoor concerts or business meetings do?

On the plus side, ISO 1600 is very usuable, and auto-white-balance only failed me once out of 60 shots.