Physical Darkroom Gear.

MTN-Freerider

I hate to say it guys, but since I started taking photography classes at University of Alabama, my D50 has just been collecting dust.

I am really starting to think Black and White is the medium for me.

I'm a senior now and I won't have access to the school's darkroom forever. I'm thinking about buying an old enlarger on ebay or somthing and setting it up on my closet.

Just level with me here, is this really feasible. What am I getting myself into? How much are these damn chemicals going to cost anyway? Buying bulk film and fiber paper is bad enough. Don't worry, your not going to scare me out of my plan, I just want to be prepared before I start shopping around.

Shay Stephens

Not that you're listening but...
How much does it cost to setup a wax-cylinder recording studio? Why paint a sinking boat?

My suggestion, learn to shoot and process B&W RAW and find a printer (mpics comes to mind) that prints on true B&W paper.

Why invest in something that is clearly going the way of the dodo and is only going to get harder and more expensive to produce?

MTN-Freerider wrote:

I am really starting to think Black and White is the medium for me.

You can do stunning stuff with B&W RAW. B&W is not the sole domain of film.

MTN-Freerider

Shay Stephens wrote:

Why paint a sinking boat?

Why invest in something that is clearly going the way of the dodo and is only going to get harder and more expensive to produce?

Never thought of it that way, I think I'm going to call up my mom and tell her to throw out her oil paints and burn her a Adobe Creative Suite.


Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a smart ass there, but film definatly has it's place. Mabe some day i'll be exposed to a world outside the academic bubble of my college campus and come to my senses, but what can I say ,I'm hooked on that whole idea of actually making somthing.

System

having done bw in a chemical darkroom years ago, I have to say it was a very unique and rewarding experience-

unable to afford it for several years, I finally saw the opportunity last year to put together a digital darkroom-

frankly, I'm not sure I could produce better prints in a chemical darkroom than what I'm doing now-

if you don't have to factor in the cost of film, paper and chemicals I still wouldn't do it that way-

may I suggest you get on the internet and see what is being done in digital bw-

and I believe I'm making, or creating something just as much or more viable than someone would create in a chemical darkroom, only with more ability to be creative and do it in a fraction of the time, leaving me with more time to take more photos and become a better photographer-

don't get me wrong; if that's the way you choose to go, go for it, I think it's great; I just don't see any upside to it whatsoever-



best
george

Bodwick

MTN-Freerider wrote:

I hate to say it guys, but since I started taking photography classes at University of Alabama, my D50 has just been collecting dust.

I am really starting to think Black and White is the medium for me.

I'm a senior now and I won't have access to the school's darkroom forever. I'm thinking about buying an old enlarger on ebay or somthing and setting it up on my closet.

Just level with me here, is this really feasible. What am I getting myself into? How much are these damn chemicals going to cost anyway? Buying bulk film and fiber paper is bad enough. Don't worry, your not going to scare me out of my plan, I just want to be prepared before I start shopping around.

If you were in the UK I'd lend you a load of stuff that just sits gathering dust.

I've spent untold hours in a small darkroom and enjoyed just about every minute spent there.

I moved up through a simple B&W system of trays to a Durst roller system and Deep tanks for Cibachrome from my slides.

You could buy a bargain enlarger on ebay and set your bathroom as a darkroom.

I would not go back and do it again for a number of reasons but as your thinking that way the thing to decide is how far into it do you want to go and buy accordingly. There must be some real bargains about. Look also at medium format maybe.

Bod.

Shay Stephens

MTN-Freerider wrote:

I'm hooked on that whole idea of actually making somthing.

You have lost sight of the fact that shooting digital also results in "actually making something". It all leads to a print

But if instead you are primarily interested in all the steps in between making the print, well, knock yourself out, there are stranger hobbies out there hehehe.

cmason

Shay Stephens wrote:

You have lost sight of the fact that shooting digital also results in "actually making something". It all leads to a print

But if instead you are primarily interested in all the steps in between making the print, well, knock yourself out, there are stranger hobbies out there hehehe.

Years ago (wow has it been that long?) I too was using the college darkroom, totally hooked on it. I had to buy my own chemicals and paper then, so I did mostly B&W, perhaps a bit of color occasionally. I looked into doing my own darkroom, but logistics, rather than cost was the real killer. I found I could get a cheap enlarger, one that did 8x10 max, for $100-200 at the time, (probably less these days?). But in the end it was my living circumstances, not the equipment, that stopped me.

To get a real darkroom, you need a.....dark room. Apt living was the rule for me, and there just wasn't a dark enough room, even the interior bathroom. Plus, when you only have one bathroom and a roomate, it doesnt take more than a few "Oops" moments before it starts to get expensive.

So I dropped the darkroom, and eventually forgot about photography till just a few years ago. My dSLR purchase 6 mons ago has brought it all back though, and I like it even better now.

Ric Grupe

Shay Stephens wrote:

You have lost sight of the fact that shooting digital also results in "actually making something". It all leads to a print

But if instead you are primarily interested in all the steps in between making the print, well, knock yourself out, there are stranger hobbies out there hehehe.

Hi Shay,

I refrain from giving my son, Jon, who has BTW just graduated college himself, any strong willed advice. It just makes him more determined to fu.

In all fairness, I did quite a bit of effing up myself in those days.

Funny though, how sometimes he will come back to me with HIS idea that is somehow exactly what I had said to him.

System

how weird it is that at your age your starting to make sense-

george

Ric Grupe

gefillmore wrote:

how weird it is that at your age your starting to make sense-

george

If you swim upstream long enough.....it's go with the flow or drown. So I guess that it is not a matter of making sense as much as surviving.:D

David_S85

Having gone the wet darkroom route myself, helping to teach it at college in the 70's, and contriving a B/W darkroom of my own way back in the days I lived "at home." I worked my way up to 4 x 5 negatives. I can fully understand the appeal of the process - from beginning to end. Perhaps even the smell and stains from the developer and the stop bath are intriguing. It's a load of work; along with experience, skill and takes a good eye to produce a great image vs. just an acceptable one. And it was fun. Even magical.

Currently using the digital darkroom method, helping to teach it online here and another forum, as well as to friends, I can fully understand the appeal of this process - from beginning to end. I am happy to leave the smell and stains from the chemicals in the past. Digital, too, is a load of work; along with experience, skill and takes a good eye to produce a great image vs. just an acceptable one. And it is fun. Even magical.

There's a point between the lines of the above paragraphs.

Standard photography began as an art medium and a chemical process. It was something only pros did. As the process and marketing improved, photography became an everyman product. Cameras cost in the single dollars and pennies for the film and development.

Digital photography began as a technical challenge, and something only geeks, scientists and the pros did. As the digital process and marketing improved, digital photography landed as an everyman product. Digital cameras cost tens of dollars, and we are now finally free of film and development costs.

There's also a point between the lines of the above two paragraphs.

Mutual ground. There is equipment involved. There always will be. Good stuff costs a lot.

You must decide where you want to go. Good images can result either way. You are the artist. It makes no difference to the viewer of prints which process you use if you know how to produce a great image. But... film, chemicals and paper are dinosaurs. And the big companies are collecting all the nails necessary to seal the coffin shut forever. The hammers are alreay held firmly in their hands and are being swung at this moment.

Chemical will probably end up only as an art medium, for those who can afford to mix their own chemicals and produce their own emulsions for the film and apply to the paper. Those artists will need to procure the other tools necessary to carry on such as old enlargers, filters and enlarger lenses. But perhaps B&H will carry chemical supplies for another few years. All my local stores are letting (or are being forced to let) their remaining stocks run out.

All the rest of us will be carried along the fast-track wave of the future, happily snapping away and producing output in a couple of minutes, and fully edited and printed masterpieces in an hour or two at most. At very little additional cost.

The magic is still there for me (with digital), and I am just as happy to leave the old ways in the past where they belong.

System

Ric-

you're definitely a survivor if you've got a son thru college-

I wasn't very clear- what I meant was that isn't it surprising how dumb your kid thought you were and now all of the sudden you're getting smarter to them-as if you've changed your opinions or principles over that time!-

george

Ric Grupe

gefillmore wrote:

Ric-

you're definitely a survivor if you've got a son thru college-

I wasn't very clear- what I meant was that isn't it surprising how dumb your kid thought you were and now all of the sudden you're getting smarter to them-as if you've changed your opinions or principles over that time!-

george

Gotcha! :

This is our youngest son. To be truthful, I have learned more from him than he has from me. Part of maturity is being receptive......I think.

saurora

Printing black & white prints will always go down in my book as the most rewarding hobby/experience I have ever had.....hands down. I had my own darkroom (in the bathroom, yes!) for years. I think black and white afficianados are also a little bit on the perfectionist side?? My paper, film, chemical, and accessories bill at the camera store was over a $100 a week and this was back in the '70's. No...I was not a professional...just a student like yourself. Financially I was forced to give it up and have been away from shooting black and white for years. Imagine my delight when digital improved and I took a Photoshop seminar and learned I could still do black and white!!! And it's only going to get better as more and more of those who swore they would never go digital give up the battle and admit that film is on it's way out. Minolta and Konica have departed...Nikon has dropped most of their 35mm SLR and manual focus lenses. Konica and Agfa supplied most of the film that was used in private label single-use-cameras. Afga was my favorite paper source, I can't imagine not having it! Developing your own film and printing in a darkroom are truly rewarding experiences. Those who have never experienced it first-hand find it hard to understand why anyone would do anything but CS. I understand. That being said, I still think CS is the way to go. As many have said, you can spend a lot less time "developing" and more time becoming a better photographer. Whatever you choose, I applaud your choice of black and white! The great thing about CS is....you'll have time for both...black and white and color!

System

any thoughts, mtn-freerider?

smhs.images

ho hum
Very interesting thread. I too agree that you have to have worked in the darkroom to even begin to understand. Black and White Professional Printing was my major and focus at Columbia College.(1992-1996) I too let my photography go somewhat by the wayside since then and until I got my Sony F828 digital camera. It did remind me of my love for photography and no one can argue of the ease and cost of digital.(no more scanning-yeah!) But being the perfectionist that I am and a novice of Photoshop I find it a bit frustruating starting over. Not to mention how much I miss the smell of chemicals and the peacefulness of my darkroom. I find myself spending more hours with a kricked neck in front of a computer monitor with a migraine than I ever could imagine. The process of getting good digtal images is not at all an enjoyable experience for me. Could never even begin to compare to my love of the darkroom. Not to mention that I had more love for the post process, than the actual process of capturing the image itself.
But we all move on and so have I. Finding a new love for capturing the world around me is great and certainly a lot less expensive.
Just my perspective...

ingramimages

There is a certain amount of "magic" there. 25 years ago, had one in my parent's basement. As a teenager, worked nights "souping" mine and the couple of other reporter/photographers at a small down daily newspaper and producing prints on a deadline.
It's where I learned about pumping up the contrast, the value of "nose grease" and if you think keeping the dust off a sensor is hard.......

saurora

I wanted to add that I finally got around to experiencing RAW last week for the first time. Guess what? You can re-discover darkroom magic once again.....

Shay Stephens

Congratulations :-) there is nothing quite like discovery to jolt one with excitement

There is no "undo" equivalent in the wet darkroom, that alone makes the digital darkroom worth all the tea in China!

saurora wrote:

I wanted to add that I finally got around to experiencing RAW last week for the first time. Guess what? You can re-discover darkroom magic once again.....

System

shawna-

ho hum?

"I find myself spending more hours with a kricked neck in front of a computer monitor with a migraine than I ever could imagine. The process of getting good digtal images is not at all an enjoyable experience for me. Could never even begin to compare to my love of the darkroom."

hope that changes for you-having done both, I liked the darkroom and would spend hours there, but I love photoshop and can spend all day at it-

looked at some of your photos-

very nice-the eiffel tower closeup really stood out-

george

photodoug

saurora wrote:

Printing black & white prints will always go down in my book as the most rewarding hobby/experience I have ever had.....hands down. I had my own darkroom (in the bathroom, yes!) for years. I think black and white afficianados are also a little bit on the perfectionist side?? My paper, film, chemical, and accessories bill at the camera store was over a $100 a week and this was back in the '70's. No...I was not a professional...just a student like yourself. Financially I was forced to give it up and have been away from shooting black and white for years. Imagine my delight when digital improved and I took a Photoshop seminar and learned I could still do black and white!!! And it's only going to get better as more and more of those who swore they would never go digital give up the battle and admit that film is on it's way out. Minolta and Konica have departed...Nikon has dropped most of their 35mm SLR and manual focus lenses. Konica and Agfa supplied most of the film that was used in private label single-use-cameras. Afga was my favorite paper source, I can't imagine not having it! Developing your own film and printing in a darkroom are truly rewarding experiences. Those who have never experienced it first-hand find it hard to understand why anyone would do anything but CS. I understand. That being said, I still think CS is the way to go. As many have said, you can spend a lot less time "developing" and more time becoming a better photographer. Whatever you choose, I applaud your choice of black and white! The great thing about CS is....you'll have time for both...black and white and color!

what she said

Art Scott

MTN-Freerider wrote:

I hate to say it guys, but since I started taking photography classes at University of Alabama, my D50 has just been collecting dust.

I am really starting to think Black and White is the medium for me.

I'm a senior now and I won't have access to the school's darkroom forever. I'm thinking about buying an old enlarger on ebay or somthing and setting it up on my closet.

Just level with me here, is this really feasible. What am I getting myself into? How much are these damn chemicals going to cost anyway? Buying bulk film and fiber paper is bad enough. Don't worry, your not going to scare me out of my plan, I just want to be prepared before I start shopping around.

I have reels and bulk loaders and a uniroller drum and motor...if you are truly interested I also have antique porcelan (sp) developing trays....I do not have an enlarger as I let it go years ago when I was shooting way too much to even think of doing my own printing.

send me a pm if you are interested.....I am letting go of everyting that won't fit in a total of 8 suitcases:D and 1 large dog carrier for a move to europe.
Also have meduim format cameras and backs.

There is a mystic to the darkroom that PS will never have and yes I do miss the chemical smell, but I am also allergic to a lot of it.

jkelly25

If you would like to buy a black and white enlarger I have a never used Omega 760 Enlarger with a condenser head. This enlarger was purchased in about 1982. It has never been out of the box. This enlarger includes a 50mm El Omegar enlarging lens. PM me if interested.

Joe

photodoug

Art Scott wrote:

I have reels and bulk loaders and a uniroller drum and motor...if you are truly interested I also have antique porcelan (sp) developing trays....I do not have an enlarger as I let it go years ago when I was shooting way too much to even think of doing my own printing.

send me a pm if you are interested.....I am letting go of everyting that won't fit in a total of 8 suitcases:D and 1 large dog carrier for a move to europe.
Also have meduim format cameras and backs.

There is a mystic to the darkroom that PS will never have and yes I do miss the chemical smell, but I am also allergic to a lot of it.

I love the smell of fixer in the morning....

smhs.images

gefillmore wrote:

shawna-

ho hum?

"I find myself spending more hours with a kricked neck in front of a computer monitor with a migraine than I ever could imagine. The process of getting good digtal images is not at all an enjoyable experience for me. Could never even begin to compare to my love of the darkroom."

hope that changes for you-having done both, I liked the darkroom and would spend hours there, but I love photoshop and can spend all day at it-

looked at some of your photos-

very nice-the eiffel tower closeup really stood out-

george

Thanks so much. Yes maybe as my skills at PS improve, so will the migraines. I too find myself on the computer for 24 hours straight. It's just that it lacks the relaxation effect of the dark room. I guess being a migraine sufferer, it comes down to dark and light. Dark=good, light=bad. Anyway this forum is a great place for me to sharpen my skils in PS or lack thereof. Hopefully frustration will be replaced with excitement in time!