posters from my images?? ACK!

FatNakedGuy

Got a call today from the manager of a well known touring band.

Seems the band really loves a few of the shots I took recently, and they are asking for permission to create posters from my images, promising that I will receive full credit for the images on the posters.

The question is, do I allow them to use the images free of charge in trade for a photo credit on the poster, or do I ask for $$? And if I ask for $$, what is a fair price?

Very new to photography and this is confusing to me.

Thanks in advance!

Rick

Mike Lane

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19381

Live it, love it, embrace it with open arms.

Listen, your images satisfy a need for that band. They should expect to compensate you fairly for it. It's really up to you but IMHO you should charge the going rate for the image AND get a photo credit. Check out the book Shay mentions in his post, it's fantastic and it will give you an indication of what the going rate for various photo projects would be.

Angelo

Rick - what are the shots of?

FatNakedGuy

Shots are of the band performing on a stage with very lousy lighting. Not sure why they liked the photos so much (I didn't).

I went to shoot a different band but they didn't show up. As I was leaving the venue I heard another band tuning up in a different room and stayed to shoot a few shots.

bham

You should get more than photo credit. Get some $ depending on use. Make sure to put Copyright notice in the exif of the image and then give them a signed letter to use the image in the exact manner in which they describe.

Hey they don't play for free, why should you shoot for free.

David_S85

FatNakedGuy wrote:

... and they are asking for permission to create posters from my images, promising that I will receive full credit for the images on the posters.

And what will they do with those posters once they begin to distribute them? Are those posters valuable to the band in any way? They selling them? For band promotion?

And it should make no difference how new to photography you are, or if you've been shooting for decades.

Full credit? :lol4

Here's the bottom line:

1) You took the pictures. You currently own them. You have something they want. They admit this by asking you. They must have thought through this already.
2) They want those pictures. They have something you should want. $$$.
3) You are in the drivers seat for getting compensation. As for how much, well, only you can say.
4) Both they and you expect to trade something for your services and their need.

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = Why money was created.

My simple and greedy advice: Go and get their money!!!

If they don't want to pay for your services, ask them if their own music they wrote themselves is valuable to them, and then make a long pause. I think they'll understand where you're coming from.

FatNakedGuy

Thanks for the info. I called back to inquire but got voicemail. Will try again tomorrow.


Here's a new thing that just came up. I shot a mountain bike race last weekend for a friend and just now received a call from a bike magazine editor (don't know how they found me). Anyway, I asked her to email what she is looking for (to buy a little time to research) and this is her reply. In way over my head. Can I hire someone to help with these two opportunities? haha

Hello Rick

Wondering if i can get the Hi Res of these images.
We just need them at 5x7 @ 300dpi untouched. no color moves or sharpening. it's probably going to run as a spot image so payment is between $ 50-75. Let me know if you can help us out. We would like to figure this out by the end of the day.
Thanks Rick

RJW_9640
RJW_9638
RJW_9637
RJW_9665
RJW_9998
RJW_9997
RJW_9620

here's our FTP info
Thanks.

Morgan

cmason

FatNakedGuy wrote:

T

Wondering if i can get the Hi Res of these images.
We just need them at 5x7 @ 300dpi untouched. no color moves or sharpening. it's probably going to run as a spot image so payment is between $ 50-75. Let me know if you can help us out. We would like to figure this out by the end of the day.

Just take the RAW file, convert to JPEG at max quality, and apply only bright/contrast/WB correction. resize to 5x7 (not crop, resize) and send. the pics are already high enough dpi. If you did JPEG, simply resize.

However, most publications are used to getting TIFFs, some PSDs, so you may want to respond as to what file format they prefer. Then it is simply a Save As exercise for you.

Mike Lane

For god's sake man get the pricing photography book! Do not let them dictate the price that they'll pay. You dictate that they pay the going rate for what the pics are and how they'll be used not the other way around. Just off the top of my head they want to pay $50 to $75 for a digital image that is 1500px by 2100px. That's a 3.1 megapixel image and could be used for lots of things.

FatNakedGuy

Hi Mike,

I hear ya.. I purchased the book on Monday night but have only been able to read two chapters. Not enough to make an educated decision on what to charge. Was hoping someone could guide me through this thing. I'll read a few more chapters tonight and make an attempt at negotiating tomorrow.

Mike Lane wrote:

For god's sake man get the pricing photography book! Do not let them dictate the price that they'll pay. You dictate that they pay the going rate for what the pics are and how they'll be used not the other way around. Just off the top of my head they want to pay $50 to $75 for a digital image that is 1500px by 2100px. That's a 3.1 megapixel image and could be used for lots of things.

Mike Lane

FatNakedGuy wrote:

Hi Mike,

I hear ya.. I purchased the book on Monday night but have only been able to read two chapters. Not enough to make an educated decision on what to charge. Was hoping someone could guide me through this thing. I'll read a few more chapters tonight and make an attempt at negotiating tomorrow.

The first couple of chapters are about why you should charge the going rate and how you can convey this need to a potential buyer. If you haven't seen them, skip back to the back and find the appropriate pricing table for your situation to see how much to charge.

FatNakedGuy

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm
using the calculator above, I came up with this:

Type of Use:: Editorial
Specific Use:: Magazine
Press Run:: 10,000 or less
Size:: 1/4 Page or Spot use
Low Price:: $150.00
Average Price:: $237.50
High Price:: $325.00
Survey ::707
These prices are presented as a guide for negotiation. All prices assume one time non exclusive reproduction rights. Copyright should NEVER be sold. There is NEVER a legitimate reason to transfer Copyright except to deny the creator of the image. All licensing is dependent upon payment of the licensing fee. Use is not licensed until payment is received. Higher or lower prices will apply depending on use, uniqueness of the image, suitability, prestige of the photographer, credit lines, and other factors that should be negotiated. Disclaimer: If this pricing program causes you distress, financial loss, or marital discord, we take no responsibility - If it increases your income, business success, or educational standing, you are not obligated to pay for its use. Errors and omissions: The program is new and may require some corrections. Please report any bugs to the webmaster. Direct your questions and comments to Photographers index webmaster



Does this sound in the ballpark? (still working my way through the pricing book)

Mike Lane

FatNakedGuy wrote:

Does this sound in the ballpark? (still working my way through the pricing book)

I don't know about the price, I don't have the tables memorized but it sounds reasonable. I do like the write up that came after it though.

FatNakedGuy

I asked for $130 for each image and here is their response. Is this like the new car game or something?



Hey Rick

our rate for that size is $ 65. i will have to talk to the photo
editor about moving it up to $ 75. Those photoquote websites and books are
great for getting ball park rates. But most action sports magazines rates
are unfortunately quite a bit below the lowball quotes in books or websites.
if you compare we pay the highest rates, by far. most don't pay at all.
let me know if we can still use your image with the possibility of the rate
going up to $ 75. the photo editor is out of town and won't be back until
tuesday of next week. wish i could say for sure but i have to talk to him
about it first.

Thanks again.

m

flyingpylon

I know I'll probably get my head bitten off for this, but in action sports photography you're especially subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Got an extra-special landscape shot that you had to climb a mountain at 4:00am to get? Great, charge what you want. Taking action sports photos? Say hello to the 10 other guys standing next to you and wish them all good luck selling... you're all going to need it.

Now that's not to say that if you truly have a unique perspective and do great work that you can't get a little more than the other guys, but I think that many of these magazines have figured out that the majority of their readers don't care about super-high quality, so they don't care, so if you won't sell to them at their price, then someone else who was standing next to you will. And in their defense, many of them really don't have large budgets, so what are they supposed to do? They make their best offers and re-evaluate occasionally based on the stuff they get for those prices.

I'm sure it's different in different sports, and at different levels of those sports. But I can tell you that compared to the rates I've seen for smaller auto racing magazines, and from talking to lots of other photographers, all of them would probably take that $65 in a heartbeat.

These books and price calculators are great, but sometimes I think they completely ignore the realities of certain markets.

Mike Lane

IMHO you made a mistake in mentioning the book and calculators. It's an immediate red flag that you're new to this. They can tell you whatever they want to tell you, that they pay the highest of any other place. That they'll have to check in to see if they can move it up a paltry amount.

Then again, what do I know?

Poseidon

A bird in hand is....

If they pay you $65 per image, then that is EXACTLY $65 more per image then you had!

I'd say take it, and use the money to buy more camera stuff! Also don't forget the FREE LESSON you got by mentioning the book. You have to stand tall and be CONFIDENT! By mentioning "us" the book, or other resources, you basically told them you are new, and could be influenced easily.

davev

I don't know anything about selling pictures, but I find this thread
an interesting read.

It looks like they've asked for 7 shots at $65 to $75 bucks per shot.
At $75 it comes up to $525. Don't forget to claim that on your taxes.
If you have your taxes done, (H&R Block) you've just become a company,
so the price of having your taxes done will triple. I've had this happen to me.
Damn 1099's

If you don't need the money, (it is a pretty good total sum) you could
reject their offer and see if they'll up the bid. If you are counting on
this money to put food on the table, take the cash.

The strangest part was that the editor was out of town and can't be
reached, but we need your answer right away. What a load of crap.

You could try the old, "Sorry, but you offer is just to low for me to consider"
and see if they come back with a better one.

Anyways, this is an interesting read, I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

FatNakedGuy

Mike Lane wrote:

IMHO you made a mistake in mentioning the book and calculators. It's an immediate red flag that you're new to this. They can tell you whatever they want to tell you, that they pay the highest of any other place. That they'll have to check in to see if they can move it up a paltry amount.

Then again, what do I know?

Thats just it. I didn't mention the book or calculators. I quoted the $130 per image and that was their reply.

They asked for 7 images total, but only plan on using 1. A friend of mine told me that they do that often because they like all the shots, but will only use the one that fits best in the layout. He then told me to monitor their next few publications to make sure they don't use the other 6 images.

I'm not going to dwell on the $65. It's $65 I wasn't expecting. My interest is in how this poster deal with the famous band will go down. Going to google tonight to try and figure out what is fair.

mercphoto

FatNakedGuy wrote:

I'm not going to dwell on the $65. It's $65 I wasn't expecting. My interest is in how this poster deal with the famous band will go down. Going to google tonight to try and figure out what is fair.

I wonder how much money that band even has? Is it a successful band? New band? Well established band? What is a "fair" price for that photo might be something they cannot afford to pay in the first place.

One thing I see a lot from professional photographers is that they seem to think there is some "universally fair price" for a given photo no matter who the client is. Books are great as a guide post, but don't forget a book is just a book. In the end, a fair price is whatever one person is willing to pay and what one person is willing to get compensated for.

I sell motocross photos rather cheaply because, frankly, I either sell them cheap, or I sell none at all. There's not much rocket science here. And a drop in prices this year resulted in an increase in total net profit. However, I recently sold a photo to an upcoming math text book for $300 (4x6 @ 300dpi) for a one-year run, which is rather close to the standard quote for such use. And I have turned down low-ball offers from a local racing outfit where they wanted some photos of mine for virtually free. They are an established outfit with a decent pocket book, no need for them to not pony up a respectable fee for photos.

I couldn't tell if your "famous band" comment was sarcasm or accuracy. If they truly are famous, make sure they pay a good fee for that photo they like of yours.

Scott Buel

Good question: What band?