AI Servo for racing?

BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
edited March 24, 2006 in Sports
Hey guys. I did a shoot with a local club today at the track. BMW's and such. I shot in mostly M mode with AI Servo turned on and was using a 70-200 IS L 2.8. In order to get the wheels to have spin to them I shot at no faster then 1/160th.

My question, what happened to my shots?!?!?! They look awful. More then half of them have the front end/license plate so blurry I had to delete it, but at the same moment, the driver was sharp. Is this due to AI servo mode? SHould I switch to One Shot instead for the cars? I shoot in AI Servo for the motorcycles with NO problems.

Comments

  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited March 18, 2006
    Koff. Koff. A-hem. naughty.gif
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  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 18, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    Hey guys. I did a shoot with a local club today at the track. BMW's and such. I shot in mostly M mode with AI Servo turned on and was using a 70-200 IS L 2.8. In order to get the wheels to have spin to them I shot at no faster then 1/160th.

    My question, what happened to my shots?!?!?! They look awful. More then half of them have the front end/license plate so blurry I had to delete it, but at the same moment, the driver was sharp. Is this due to AI servo mode? SHould I switch to One Shot instead for the cars? I shoot in AI Servo for the motorcycles with NO problems.
    Post an example of what you are talking about.
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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 18, 2006
    60479410-L.jpg

    Happened in all lighting conditions too
  • illuminati919illuminati919 Registered Users Posts: 713 Major grins
    edited March 18, 2006
    I'm pretty sure you could shoot at 1/500th and still get blur in the wheels. Did you try different shutter speeds ?
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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 18, 2006
    250th and it barely had the wheel spun...more like the spokes had moved an inch is what it looked like.

    When I shoot the bikes I shoot at 160 and up to 250 and get plenty of spin, cars go slower
  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    Let me add also, when I did normal panning shot (aka just the side of the car passing me) I had no issues. Something about that angle though, which I did a lot of, did not work.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    Let me add also, when I did normal panning shot (aka just the side of the car passing me) I had no issues. Something about that angle though, which I did a lot of, did not work.
    That's actually the shot I thought you were taking. The car is turning, right? Judging by the hand position on the steering wheel the car is not going straight, it is turning. Think about what is happening here --- literally the front of the car is not on the same trajectory as the back of the car. Your problem is not that the front is not in focus, your problem is the front of the car is motion blurred, just like the tires or background is.

    The only solution is to either make the shutter faster, or make this particular effect "artistic" in some manner.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    Correct, they are entering a turn.
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    Correct, they are entering a turn.
    Then the front is moving away from you (rotating away) at a different rate than the doors or the rear. Hence, the focus issue.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    so the only option I have is to use a faster shutter speed for those shots. Ugh, it just makes it look like they are parked in the middle of the turn then with the wheels not spinning
  • JeffroJeffro Registered Users Posts: 1,941 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    Hey guys. I did a shoot with a local club today at the track. BMW's and such. I shot in mostly M mode with AI Servo turned on and was using a 70-200 IS L 2.8. In order to get the wheels to have spin to them I shot at no faster then 1/160th.

    My question, what happened to my shots?!?!?! They look awful. More then half of them have the front end/license plate so blurry I had to delete it, but at the same moment, the driver was sharp. Is this due to AI servo mode? SHould I switch to One Shot instead for the cars? I shoot in AI Servo for the motorcycles with NO problems.

    I think awful is an over statement. Without all the shooting info (ISO / aperature) it would be hard to give any solid suggestions. It could be a DOF thing. The back of the car looks a bit OOF too, which leads me to believe you needed more DOF. Since motorcycles are shorter you may not notice the limited DOF on them.

    With proper panning you could go even slower than 1/160th get the wheel spin, the blurred background, and the a tack sharp car. In stead of thinking shutter speed, think aperature.

    Good luck.
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  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited March 19, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    Koff. Koff. A-hem. naughty.gif

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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    hmmm....I know the Fstop was set pretty high. Sometimes when I tried Tv Mode it would set itself up to F11 and higher. ISO was set for between 125 and 200
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    hmmm....I know the Fstop was set pretty high. Sometimes when I tried Tv Mode it would set itself up to F11 and higher. ISO was set for between 125 and 200
    Correct --- your problem is not depth of field. The problem is that as a car turns, the various ends of the car are receeding away from the camera at different rates.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
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  • gsgarygsgary Registered Users Posts: 1,350 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    These were taken yesterday 10D 200 2.8L

    F8 /iso 200/ 1/125
    60607988-M.jpg

    F9/ iso 200 / 1/125
    60608027-M.jpg

    If the 10D can do it i'm sure your camera canne_nau.gif
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    Very nice, Gary. That looks like a blast. How close were you? What lens?
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  • BBonesBBones Registered Users Posts: 580 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    AUGH!!!!! Then what happened with mine?!?!?! That car is turning too!!!
  • gsgarygsgary Registered Users Posts: 1,350 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    wxwax wrote:
    Very nice, Gary. That looks like a blast. How close were you? What lens?
    Thank's
    These were taken with the 200 2.8L uncropped
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    gsgary wrote:
    Thank's
    These were taken with the 200 2.8L uncropped
    thumb.gif
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • gsgarygsgary Registered Users Posts: 1,350 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    AUGH!!!!! Then what happened with mine?!?!?! That car is turning too!!!

    Could be the super 200 2.8L:D
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    AUGH!!!!! Then what happened with mine?!?!?! That car is turning too!!!
    Either Gary is better than you :D

    But look at his first one -- the rear bumper is not tack sharp, it is showing some motion blur. Also in the second one I think its his timing of what part of the turn he took the photo in that helps the shot come out correctly.

    Looking back into my memory of when I used to be in the driver's seat, initial turn-in is the moment with the most dynamics, and I think that is when you took your shots.

    You might try keeping your attention on the front bumper, and maybe avoid initial turn-in. Worth a try thumb.gif
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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  • gsgarygsgary Registered Users Posts: 1,350 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    mercphoto wrote:
    Either Gary is better than you :D

    But look at his first one -- the rear bumper is not tack sharp, it is showing some motion blur. Also in the second one I think its his timing of what part of the turn he took the photo in that helps the shot come out correctly.

    Looking back into my memory of when I used to be in the driver's seat, initial turn-in is the moment with the most dynamics, and I think that is when you took your shots.

    You might try keeping your attention on the front bumper, and maybe avoid initial turn-in. Worth a try thumb.gif

    I think that was nearly a compliment:D
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    gsgary wrote:
    I think that was nearly a compliment:D
    Trying to balance a compliment to you w/o uncomplimenting someone else! :D I'm horrible about balancing things. :(

    Those were cool photos thumb.gif
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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  • gsgarygsgary Registered Users Posts: 1,350 Major grins
    edited March 20, 2006
    mercphoto wrote:
    Trying to balance a compliment to you w/o uncomplimenting someone else! :D I'm horrible about balancing things. :(

    Those were cool photos thumb.gif

    Thank's Bill
    I'm getting in the swing of it now still lots to learn and buy:D
  • galaxycowpokegalaxycowpoke Registered Users Posts: 155 Major grins
    edited March 24, 2006
    BBones, what was your focal length and distance from the subject?

    I'm not sure it's relevant to the problem, but I'd still like to calculate the depth of field for consideration. Just looking at the image, though, depth of field seems pretty wide, since driver, number, and rear of care seem to be pretty sharp. What part of the cars were you focusing on?

    By the way, I don't think the image is technically as bad as you think. Since he's entering a turn, the front end could be diving under braking faster than the wheels are turning.

    Could you post one or two more?
  • galaxycowpokegalaxycowpoke Registered Users Posts: 155 Major grins
    edited March 24, 2006
    BBones wrote:
    H SHould I switch to One Shot instead for the cars? I shoot in AI Servo for the motorcycles with NO problems.

    I shoot AI Servo for racing action, but I forgot to switch from One Shot one morning at the track for about 20 minutes and was surprised at how many came out very sharp. Of course, I was panning on a fairly constant radius around the inside of a turn.

    I wonder sometimes about AI Servo and how it works, how often the lens moves to adjust focus, and how many images that movement negatively affects.
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