What is the hub bub about Carbon Fiber

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

I'm really confused! :scratch

I looked at a Giottos MT-9170 and the Carbon fiber version of it MT-8170 IIRC?.
The CF version was almost 2X the $$$!!
Some say CF is better to handle in the cold.....Aluminum ver has rubber on the legs.

Aluminum ver = 6lbs 6oz
Carbon Fiber ver = 5lbs 7oz

Not even 1lb savings for 2X the money??
I don't get it! :dunno

Am I clueless or just not suckered into the latest fad? ( NOT being sarcastic)

Jamoke · March 19, 2006

Uh -
I don't know tripods too well, but Carbon Fiber is a new fad. They make everything carbon fiber, and the prices are a lot higher. From Monopods, and walking sticks, to golf clubs and ski poles. Usually it isn't 2X the money, so I would assume there is some other difference. And for that somebody else would have to help you. But Carbon Fiber isn't all that much lighter, but is all that much more expensive.

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

Jamoke wrote:

I don't know tripods too well, but Carbon Fiber is a new fad. They make everything carbon fiber, and the prices are a lot higher. From Monopods, and walking sticks, to golf clubs and ski poles. Usually it isn't 2X the money, so I would assume there is some other difference. And for that somebody else would have to help you. But Carbon Fiber isn't all that much lighter, but is all that much more expensive.

I was wrong it was $100 more for the CF.
Still a LOT more and this is just one instance....might be more for others?

Mike Lane · March 19, 2006

CF is much, much stronger than aluminum which will make it much more sturdy. That said, aluminum is the world's 2nd most abundant resource so you can pretty much guarantee the price for something made of it to be cheap cheap. CF is a man-made material that is time consuming to make and difficult to work with since it's so hard hence the expense.

Well that and people will pay that much for it. Economics plays at least as much of a part as materials engineering.

mr peas · March 19, 2006

Carbon fiber is for people who have no muscles in the arm

Theyre great because they lower the weight considerably. They have plenty of applications as Jamoke states above, especially in motor vehicles. But lets face it, if you grow some muscles you can handle holding a slightly heavier tripod. I'd rather lug an aluminum tripod when hiking instead of a cf one because if at any point I trip and fall off some rocks I'm climbing over I wont feel as bad since it wasnt the more expensive tripod.

But like how everything else goes, it depends on how deep your pocket it. If you're that deep in, screw it, CF all the way!!

If not, well save them few bucks and you'll still be fine. I think you'll have to lug around some extra weight to hang on the tripod to keep it steady during windy days as well. It all depends on you.

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

mr peas wrote:

Carbon fiber is for people who have no muscles in the arm

They're great because they lower the weight considerably. They have plenty of applications as Jamoke states above, especially in motor vehicles. But lets face it, if you grow some muscles you can handle holding a slightly heavier tripod. I'd rather lug an aluminum tripod when hiking instead of a cf one because if at any point I trip and fall off some rocks I'm climbing over I wont feel as bad since it wasn't the more expensive tripod.

But like how everything else goes, it depends on how deep your pocket it. If you're that deep in, screw it, CF all the way!! If not, well save them few bucks and you'll still be fine. I think you'll have to lug around some extra weight to hang on the tripod to keep it steady during windy days as well. It all depends on you.

I don't see the "considerable weight savings"?
In the example I gave came out to 9oz diff.
Might be diff in other instances tho?

Mike Lane · March 19, 2006

GraphyFotoz wrote:

I don't see the "considerable weight savings"?
In the example I gave came out to 9oz diff.
Might be diff in other instances tho?

In a tripod, there isn't that much weight savings. But when CF is used in cars or airplanes or helicopters or ships or whatever the weight savings can be absolutely massive. That's what CF is made for. It's not like they invented CF to make tripods lighter or anything.

mynakedsoda · March 19, 2006

Mike Lane wrote:

In a tripod, there isn't that much weight savings. But when CF is used in cars or airplanes or helicopters or ships or whatever the weight savings can be absolutely massive. That's what CF is made for. It's not like they invented CF to make tripods lighter or anything.

I agree. The hood on my Z28 for example, OE is a huge steel stamping. It takes two people to safely manuever it on and off. I've got one made out of CF now. The weakest woman I know could probably balance it in her outstretched hand. It's that light!

As far as CF legs on a tripod, I've read that they are supposed to be more "stable" or able to resist vibration than aluminum. I don't know from firsthand experience since my aluminum leg tripod seems light enough for me and pretty well controlled in that regard so the "allure" of CF just hasn't gotten me yet.

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

Mike Lane wrote:

CF is much, much stronger than aluminum which will make it much more sturdy. That said, aluminum is the world's 2nd most abundant resource so you can pretty much guarantee the price for something made of it to be cheap cheap. CF is a man-made material that is time consuming to make and difficult to work with since it's so hard hence the expense.

Well that and people will pay that much for it. Economics plays at least as much of a part as materials engineering.

We aren't talking about jack stands for a 3000lb car! :giggle

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

mynakedsoda wrote:

I agree. The hood on my Z28 for example, OE is a huge steel stamping. It takes two people to safely manuever it on and off. I've got one made out of CF now. The weakest woman I know could probably balance it in her outstretched hand. It's that light!

As far as CF legs on a tripod, I've read that they are supposed to be more "stable" or able to resist vibration than aluminum. I don't know from firsthand experience since my aluminum leg tripod seems light enough for me and pretty well controlled in that regard so the "allure" of CF just hasn't gotten me yet.

Yes I know about CF for cars.....huge advantage there!
Esp doors/hood/trunk lid vs metal for racing!!

Yeah it's not that pretty on a tripod for me either.

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

Thanx for the input Guys!
The whole point I was making in this post was.....

When researching Tripods I had several PPL tell me to spend the extra $$ and go CF cuz it's lighter and stronger.
BUT after doing a lil research....I found for the extra $100 or more what would I gain?

NOTHING from what I see cept keeping my old pod!

Extra strength? For what 10-15lbs max?
32mm dia legs on a aluminum isn't wimpy!

Lighter weight? What a few oz?

Just trying figure out the fuss!

Besides I was curious to see what others though of this!:D

pathfinder · March 19, 2006

Try carrying an aluminum tripod all afternoon in 10 degrees in the sunshine. The Carbon fibre tripod will feel warm, the aluminum one will not. It will freeze your fingers to the bone.

I would suggest you spend a day in the cold using one of each and see what you prefer. Some folks prefer legs that have snap locks, others hate that style. Some like screw leg locks, others hate them. It is important that you LIKE your tripod, really LIKE it, or else it gets left behind and not used.

I own both CF and Al tripods. Funny thing, the one that goes with me travelling is always CF. I only use the Al one indoors anymore. A tripod that you leave behind is of no value whatsoever no matter how little, or much, you paid for it.

Don't forget that the original tripods were wooden - still a great material, wood. Used by surveyors and astronomers, as well as photographers. For example -

http://www.riestripod.com/ries.htm

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/obwtri.htm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&b=1591&a=0&a=808_7584&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&Submit.x=7&Submit.y=9&Submit=Go&shs=&ci=2636&ac=

I wish I had looked at wooden tripods more thoroughly. They look like bargains and are pleasant to use and own. Not too hard to make your own wooden tripod either, and it will look good when your finished building it.

Bodwick · March 19, 2006

GraphyFotoz wrote:

Lighter weight? What a few oz?

Just trying figure out the fuss!

Besides I was curious to see what others though of this!:D

Saving a few oz can be a great benefit if your flying and if you need to carry it a great deal.
9oz here a few more oz there can make the differance between comfort or strain.
You can also carry 9oz more of anything else ie water or food that you might otherwise leave.

Didn't Gitzo start as mountaineering gear? Every oz can count...

$100 for 9oz is not a bad trade.
I use both at different times and the weight is an issue.

Bod.

Bodwick · March 19, 2006

Anyone still carry about an old canvas tent in an old canvas rucksack with an old WWII water bottle while wearing a pair of hob nailed boots in your old explorer 1914 style trousers?

GorTex rules with ali water bottles and super light tents. Camera equipment is the same. Take your pick.

I might still buy an old syle wooden tripod though, great for those portrait sittings with the old folk....

(Just about to replace my old 1800's gas lamps circa Jack the Ripper)
Bod.

ChrisJ · March 19, 2006

If I'm going to be using a piece of equipment for 10+ years, $100 difference is fairly inconsequential to me (I feel lucky in having that luxury).

It's not just 9 ounces for the pod, it's the 9 ounces here, 1.5 lbs there that all add up. At some point in time, it might make a difference... especially if someone other than yourself is doing the carrying.

There's always trade-offs, though... I could purchase a lighter Gitzo than the Manfrotto I've picked out, but I don't like the leg releases as much, and I'm not willing to compromise there. It doesn't hurt that the Gitzo is $150-$200 more, but that wasn't the deciding factor.

GraphyFotoz · March 19, 2006

pathfinder wrote:

Try carrying an aluminum tripod all afternoon in 10 degrees in the sunshine. The Carbon fibre tripod will feel warm, the aluminum one will not. It will freeze your fingers to the bone.

I would suggest you spend a day in the cold using one of each and see what you prefer. Some folks prefer legs that have snap locks, others hate that style. Some like screw leg locks, others hate them. It is important that you LIKE your tripod, really LIKE it, or else it gets left behind and not used.

I own both CF and Al tripods. Funny thing, the one that goes with me travelling is always CF. I only use the Al one indoors anymore. A tripod that you leave behind is of no value whatsoever no matter how little, or much, you paid for it.

Don't forget that the original tripods were wooden - still a great material, wood. Used by surveyors and astronomers, as well as photographers. For example -

http://www.riestripod.com/ries.htm

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/obwtri.htm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&b=1591&a=0&a=808_7584&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&Submit.x=7&Submit.y=9&Submit=Go&shs=&ci=2636&ac=

I wish I had looked at wooden tripods more thoroughly. They look like bargains and are pleasant to use and own. Not too hard to make your own wooden tripod either, and it will look good when your finished building it.

Foam Rubber on legs for that problem.(Fat area)

Guess it's just a matter of pref and the amount of $$$ you have to spend.
I don't have that kinda cash so I'll be happy just the same.

Wood? I'll pass....way heavier than aluminum and not by a few oz!:D

Bob Bell · March 19, 2006

Here is my CF story. I am about 6'5 1/2" So any tripod is going to be heavy to be that big, so getting to 65(plus head, plus clamp plus body gets up to eye level) inches makes a heavy tripod.

I have a bogen aluminum legset and it weighs 9.2 pounds.
I have a gitzo 1348 that weighs 4.8 pounds (not sure how much the leg pads weigh). So thats 4.4 pounds weight savings. The gitzo 1348 is capable of holding a 500/4 IS or 600/4 IS with a Wimberley.

Each weekend, I go for a 3-7 mile hike with 1 body, 100 macro, 28-70, 70-200, 400mm, TC's, 550ex, light meter, 2 gatorades, etc... in a Tamrac Expedition 8. I guess thats in the 25 pound range. Would I rather add a 9 pound tripod or a 4.4 pound one?

Not to go too far off topic, but I am also going to go away from the large ball heads to a RRS BH-50, which will save me almost 2 pounds just with a lighter head.

So the moral to my story is, if you are going to hike with big lenses, then you need a heavy duty CF legset both that can support the weight and be light at the same time. If you are going to shoot in a studio or just remote location, aluminum is all you need, wood is also good.

USAIR · March 19, 2006

It's hard to talk someone into something especially when it comes to $$
I did the same as you...talked myself out of the CF tripod

I went for the cheaper aluminum one
I now have five tripods two I use and three that set in the corner getting dusty

If you shoot in cold weather CF is great the aluminum just sucks the heat right out of your hands...then your uncomfortable and go home...no more photos :cry

I went with the Gitzo model this year.
I like the telescopic leg control very nice and it reminds me of the first tripod I bought...except that it was aluminum

If I would have listen to eveyone years ago I would have saved lots of jack in the long run

My 2c

Fred

mr peas · March 19, 2006

GraphyFotoz wrote:

I don't see the "considerable weight savings"?
In the example I gave came out to 9oz diff.
Might be diff in other instances tho?

I agree with you, thats why I said if you have muscles, why get a CF tripod? :P I'd rather spend on aluminum legs and have a few nicks and scratches on that instead of having come damage done to a more expensive CF where I will probably hate myself for doing.

But for cars, airplanes and everything else, they are the best. Fiberglass is great too. Its why the Corvette has always been a great car with it's body panels being made of fiberglass instead of heavier metals (an aluminum block helps with the weight too).

But yeah thats the message I was trying to convey. I think CF is great is you have the cheese, the money to spend. But aluminum will work just as well if not better. Either way, if you buy a light tripod and want to take telephotos or shots with long exposures, I think you'll still need to add some weights to keep it steady.

AND.. if your legs get too hot or cold.. pffft. Pipe insulator works great as covers! haha

Bodwick · March 20, 2006

mr peas wrote:

I agree with you, thats why I said if you have muscles, why get a CF tripod? :P I'd rather spend on aluminum legs and have a few nicks and scratches on that instead of having come damage done to a more expensive CF where I will probably hate myself for doing.

But yeah thats the message I was trying to convey. I think CF is great is you have the cheese, the money to spend. But aluminum will work just as well if not better. Either way, if you buy a light tripod and want to take telephotos or shots with long exposures, I think you'll still need to add some weights to keep it steady.

AND.. if your legs get too hot or cold.. pffft. Pipe insulator works great as covers! haha

Tripods are nearly indestructable and a few scratches are irrelevent to its working condition. Mine gets thrown in the back of a (VERY) dusty Land Rover and beaten to within an inch of its life. No problems at all.

Of course ali will work just as well as CF but so will wood or a bean bag or a window pod etc. All your doing is steadying you camera.

If you go walking about the Sahara in extreme heat with a 200mm 1.8 a spare body, a couple of lens, a battery pack, some water etc, then 9oz is a lot. In fact every oz is a lot. Every single item I carry has been thought through and weight is a factor in deciding what to carry. Its almost a case of having a different bag for every different photographic situation.

If you drive up to your Egrets in the car then you could use a studio pod and not notice the weight. If you walk miles in a desert then 9oz is a lot.

Just buy the best you can afford.

Bodwick · March 20, 2006

Just in case anyones interested I weighed the following:

Gitzo G1228 1.510 kg
Manfrotto 055CB 2.595 kg
Cobra action head 1.525 kg

So a head and pod can, in this case, be either 4.12 kg or 3.035 kg.

Thats just over a kilo difference or 2.2 lbs.....More than the 9oz example.

Between my two pods thats a big saving. The 55 is a more sturdy pod but the Gitzo does very well and can manage anything thrown at it. With the Cobra fitted I don't extend fully, no need as I'm shooting low.

I'd never give up my 55 or Gitzo they both have a place.

GraphyFotoz · March 20, 2006

Well I see this is obviously hotly debated subject.
Didn't intend for it to be!

For me I guess it's a matter of making due with what I can afford.
A good sturdy versatile tripod is important to me!
Working in the cold? I do as little of that as possible....not a cold weather person!

Long hikes? Most I do is 1-2miles and that's only a coupla times a year.

Our pay(Me and The Wife) goes to the Family and home only.
We don't make a lot of money and have other priorities in life.(2 Boys and a Home)
Before I'd spend $300+ for a pod I'd invest that $$ in glass.
I sold off my old Hobby to get back into serious Photography.
I sell various things on ebay to fund my Hobby.
If it weren't for this there would be no Hobby! :uhoh

Maybe someday this will change but I don't foresee it in this economy!

wxwax · March 20, 2006

My tripod's carbon fiber, but by default, really. I needed a tripod that would fold down and fit in my motorcycle's pannier. So I set a maximum folded length. Turns out the only one that was also tall enough when unfolded was a four-section carbon fiber model. Pricey enough to make you have second thoughts.

But I'm glad it's light. And as Mike Lane pointed out, the weight does make a difference in checked luggage (I pack it for travel.)

I tried to take the advice I read, which is to buy a tripod that will last a lifetime, and is able to handle gear of all weights. With that in mind, I didn't gulp too badly at the price. I may end up buying another head (curse you, Really Right Stuff!) but I can't come up with a rational reason to buy another set of sticks. Which means I made a pretty good purchase, I guess.

David_S85 · March 20, 2006

How's CF in hot temps?
Cold weather characteristics of CF tripods are well known, and explained fully in the above posts.

What I'd like to know from those of you who have both aluminum and CF tripods, is how the CF models behave in hot temperatures (90ºF+) in 100% sun. Do the leg sections get too hot to handle? Do the legs become less stiff?

Thanks!

wxwax · March 20, 2006

David_S85 wrote:

Cold weather characteristics of CF tripods are well known, and explained fully in the above posts.

What I'd like to know from those of you who have both aluminum and CF tripods, is how the CF models behave in hot temperatures (90ºF+) in 100% sun. Do the leg sections get too hot to handle? Do the legs become less stiff?

Thanks!

Not that I've noticed, David. I haven't shot off the tripod but once or twice on a day like that, but I don't recall having any problems.

Bodwick · March 21, 2006

David_S85 wrote:

Cold weather characteristics of CF tripods are well known, and explained fully in the above posts.

What I'd like to know from those of you who have both aluminum and CF tripods, is how the CF models behave in hot temperatures (90ºF+) in 100% sun. Do the leg sections get too hot to handle? Do the legs become less stiff?

Thanks!

CF in a pod does not seem to absorb any heat that was noticible to me while in a desert.

As for me I slowly cook. Its a state of mind and heat is best ignored bla bla bla. Bloody hot, mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun...
Did you kow, too much sun makes you slightly deranged:encore

Carbon fibre is a good insulator and a poor conductor of heat, it has very good heat resistance.

I'd say CF wins on heat reflection.

Bod.

What is the hub bub about Carbon Fiber

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