Lighting a Group on Stairs

jkelly25 · March 29, 2006

I have agreed to take pictures at the annual service awards lunch at work. They will be pictures of groups of employees on a stairway. Some will be small groups, relatively easy with my flash. But the main group will be larger. Last years picture looks a little dark in the back:

I would appreciate any advice on what I could do to properly light a group like this. I have a d20, and a canon 380 ex speedlight, off camera shoe and stofen omnibounce. Any ideas as to whether this would work to light this group with the flash either on the camera or off the camera on a flash bracket? This is a freebie so I don't want to spend a lot of money on new equipment. I would consider getting an umbrella and stand if that would help but the off camera shoe cord is pitifly short (maybe 2 feet extended).

I will try to move the group either outside on the front steps (wider and better lighting) if the weather cooperates, or to the front hall and pose them differently, but on the steps is the "traditional" picture.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Joe

pathfinder · March 29, 2006

Inverting a graduated neutral density filter might help even out exposure perhaps??

Maybe just a 1 stop Graduated ND, with the darker portion inferiorly. Need to be on a tripod probably.

Art Scott · March 30, 2006

First...any off camera is always better than on...Secondly...can you borrow a flash meter? That way you could measure the light output with the stofen on and running flash at full power manually. Measure going up the stair well and see how your flash is lighting....Of course with the Stofen I believe you may need to have a +1 1/3 comp on the camera also....but if you can meter that is better as it tells you how to set with out compensating.

Kodachrome · March 30, 2006

jkelly25 wrote:

They will be pictures of groups of employees on a stairway.
I would appreciate any advice on what I could do to properly light a group like this.

Hmmm... Yes a partial neutral density of at least one or two Fstops mounted inverted, might get you by...or if your flash tilts put the flash at 45degrees away from the subject and bounce off the ceiling this way you will not over expose the forground...bouncing over the first two rows and exposing the back rows correctly as well ...with bounce flash you usually lose two Fstops or more if the ceiling is high...if you can get your hands on a flash meter you should be able to dial in the angle and Fstop...if you have some time visit the location and fire off a few exposures...this what make digital so great ...you get to see the result instantaneously...if the ceiling is dark or two high make up a small reflector/deflector out of tin foil...and position on the back of the angled back flash head...with the small reflector/deflector 90degrees (or right angles)to theflash body towards the group...hard to explain but bounce flash has been around since dirt was new...but I think you get the idea...once you get into bounce flash you will wonder how you did without it.

...the attached photo is part of a large coffee table book project that I am working on...about 250 pictures. The publisher wants transparencies to produce from...but I use my digital camera and lap top to confirm the lighting...this photo has one small direct flash by the camera...three bounce flash heads positioned the full length of the room with two hot lights to bring up some warmth in the fireplace and beams...

Low Rez 60k trial exposure/lighting balance test done on my G1

Shay Stephens · March 30, 2006

Feather the light

jkelly25 wrote:

I have agreed to take pictures at the annual service awards lunch at work...

If you were to aim the light over the head of the last person on the stairs, you can "feather the light" so it is dimmer in front of the group and brighter farther back which will help compensate for the natural light fall off of the flash.

You can use this technique for single person portraits too so that their head is normal brightness and the their feet are dimmer. That makes a natural emphasis on the subjects face without having to do a lot of processing or filtering on the camera.

I seldom point the flash directly at the subject anymore, feathering the light looks much better and you can control it in artistic ways much easier that way.

Dee · March 30, 2006

You kind of lost me there...Shay

Shay Stephens wrote:

If you were to aim the light over the head of the last person on the stairs, you can "feather the light" so it is dimmer in front of the group and brighter farther back which will help compensate for the natural light fall off of the flash.

You can use this technique for single person portraits too so that their head is normal brightness and the their feet are dimmer. That makes a natural emphasis on the subjects face without having to do a lot of processing or filtering on the camera.

I seldom point the flash directly at the subject anymore, feathering the light looks much better and you can control it in artistic ways much easier that way.

This sounds like something I'll need to do once my flash gets here... by pointing straight at the person you mean 90 degrees? and straight up (toward the ceiling) would be 0 degrees? Feathering would be 45 degrees?

Joe: Too bad that "on the stairs" is where they want to stand. The people in front look like giants while the ones in the back look so tiny in comparison. However, their choice and tradition, right?:):

A cheap option might be to bring two halogen work lights (on a stand -- think Lowes, Home Depot, etc., they are usually $20-40) to the shoot and have one at the back, or toward the back of the stairs bounced off a side wall -- or upstairs bounced off the wall? And have another light mid-way between the back and the front of the stairs bounced off the ceiling or wall?

( I see the walls are gold colored, so you might want to do a custom white balance for your camera. ) The work lights can be aimed, straight up, straight forward, etc. -- I use them all the time, mainly to bounce off the ceiling to add extra light. They are hot though and very bright. If the ceiling is too high you could maybe rig up some poster board to make your own bounce light deflector. The lights on a stand that I have have 2 lights on a bracket. Each light can be turned on or off, and aimed individually.

Or as an alternative, since it looks like there's a railing upstairs (and probably an electric plug) you might be able to get those clamp on reflectors and some bright lights and clamp them on the hand rail upstairs (aimed down the stairs or against the wall) to add light in the back of the stairs.

Probably ideal would be a flash slave on a light stand you could move to the back and bounce or have upstairs. The slave flash would probably come in handy at other times... but if you don't see any use for the extra expense, then maybe you can borrow shop lights to use for that one shot.

It would be really neat, after you take the shot, if you'd share your results.

Of course you could try post processing to just lighten the faces in the back, but optimally, nice even lighting would be the best option, especially if the people are going to want prints made.

Kodachrome · March 30, 2006

Shay wrote:

said ...If you were to aim the light over the head of the last person on the stairs, you can "feather the light" so it is dimmer in front of the group and brighter farther back which will help compensate for the natural light fall off of the flash.

...as Shay said...just feather the light dead simple...or splice in some cable and have an assistant aim the light to the top of the group.

..or a little PS might get you out of a jam...we have so many options these days...this is a very ropugh 2 minute pass through PS...I sampled the pic much smaller and causing some pixel issues...but you get the idea.

...yes please show us the final result.

swintonphoto · March 31, 2006

If it was me, I would have someone stand on a chair or a small step ladder and get the flash high, and off to the side a bit. Point it toward the back of the group more. If there is a way to bounce the flash that would help too.

ziggy53 · March 31, 2006

Shay has actual experience doing this so I think you can/should trust his advice. (I shure would.)

I don't think the Stofen is going to help in this situation, and I think the Canon 380 is maybe even a little too small, in power output, for this use.

Another method that works pretty well is to point the flash straight up, and use a large card reflector (at least 3 ft by 3 ft), custom angled and even some seperation from the flash head. This probably indicates a need for an assistant, trained beforehand (with the following test). This is simply a form of bounce flash, and I think the "feathering" might be a little easier to control.

Whatever you decide to do, it's easy to test. All you need is two people, one to represent the first row, and one waaay up high representing the last row. If you can get both of those to expose properly, the "tweens" should also work well, and the stairs will show a proper exposure as well. (You can also use just bare stairs, as long as you count about three steps above those needed for standing, and get pretty even lighting that far up.)

I encourage you not to try to, "fix it in post". While you can improve the image, you'll be much better off capturing better in the first place.

Planning ahead, and testing beforehand, will save you lots of grief later.

Best,

ziggy53

Harrison · April 1, 2006

One more suggestion: if no assistance or experiments are possible, and you must shoot on-camera flash, you might consider bringing everyone down a step or two and standing on a stepstool or small ladder yourself. That way, aiming the flash dead center might even it out a bit.

Viking · April 3, 2006

If i want to shoot a group of, lets say 10-15 person... Shall i then use a wideangel lens like the nikkor 12-24, or anything else?

ziggy53 · April 3, 2006

Viking wrote:

If i want to shoot a group of, lets say 10-15 person... Shall i then use a wideangel lens like the nikkor 12-24, or anything else?

Viking,

True wide-angle lenses usually make people look funny, and I reserve them for when the physical dimensions of the shooting area won't allow anything else. A normal lens to moderate telephoto is usually a much better choice, almost regardless the number of people in the shot.

There is no absolute best anything to cover all situations.

Test, explore, learn and then apply what you learn.

Best,

ziggy53

Andyman · April 3, 2006

Using slight wide-angle, such as the lens you mentioned, might not be a bad idea. Just keep it on the high end, like 18mm or higher. It's nice to have that extra space to play with and I don't think it would distort your image much at all - or none noticeable if you're creative with it (such as, not perpendicular to straight lines, etc). Since it's a group shot, I don't think the distortion concern is as big a deal as it might be with an individual.

jkelly25 · May 24, 2006

Sorry it took me so long to thank you for you input on lighting the group. The day finally came and I took the pictures today. As the weather was good I took the shots outside on the front steps of the building. The area was shaded from direct sunlight by the building.

I think they came out pretty good. I can see a few things I could have done better including getting them to remove their nametags and keeping a better eye on the background.

I would be interested to hear your comments on any aspect of the photos.

Thanks again to all who responded. Although I didn't use your advice on these shots, you are helping my lighting education, which is sorely needed.

Joe

Lighting a Group on Stairs

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