30D RAW rant

Nikolai · March 31, 2006

Guess what: 30D RAW is not compatible with PS CS2 or MS Raw viewer :cry ..
Essentially, no way to preview the thumbnails in Bridge or Explorer. Funny, it's called .CR2, but it differs... There is some discussion on that over dpreview, where I found the hack:
http://akhater.wordpress.com/2006/03/24/early-support-for-photoshop-cs2-for-canon-30d-raw/
(correct version of the script is here: http://www.catchingzlight.com/Unofficial30DSupport.js)
Kinda bummer.. I like ACR, and now I have to wait for Adobe to come out with 30D compatible version... argh:fish
[EDIT]
Well, in all fairness, 30D comes with Digital Photo Professional that can read new format, and has UI similar to ACR... Guess would have to learn it for now just to survive:-)

Andy · March 31, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

Guess what: 30D RAW is not compatible with PS CS2 or MS Raw viewer :cry ..
Essentially, no way to preview the thumbnails in Bridge or Explorer. Funny, it's called .CR2, but it differs... There is some discussion on that over dpreview, where I found the hack:
http://akhater.wordpress.com/2006/03/24/early-support-for-photoshop-cs2-for-canon-30d-raw/
(correct version of the script is here: http://www.catchingzlight.com/Unofficial30DSupport.js)
Kinda bummer.. I like ACR, and now I have to wait for Adobe to come out with 30D compatible version... argh:fish
[EDIT]
Well, in all fairness, 30D comes with Digital Photo Professional that can read new format, and has UI similar to ACR... Guess would have to learn it for now just to survive:-)

I recall this from when the 20d came out. Adobe had new ACR ready in a few weeks IIRC.

Nikolai · March 31, 2006

Andy,

Andy wrote:

I recall this from when the 20d came out. Adobe had new ACR ready in a few weeks IIRC.

Thanks, that is a good news, I guess. I missed the details of the 20D rollout (was still with my ole gud 828 at the time), so you words are definitely bringing the hope:-)

Nikolai · March 31, 2006

Good news:-)
I didn't read the hack thread completely at first, and I didn't notice one hint: if you copy the hacked .8bi file into "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Plug-Ins\CS2\File Formats" (or wherever else you will find the instabces of this file), then your Bridge would work 100%, with tumbnails, preview and such

. I presume DNG converter should work, too (you'd need to replace its copy of .8bi file, too)

Phew, with ACR working we're back in business!!:D

chuckice · March 31, 2006

For what its worth Nikon just went thru this with the D200 and the update was ready in about a month after release. I'd imagine the same for the 30D.

DavidTO · March 31, 2006

chuckice wrote:

For what its worth Nikon just went thru this with the D200 and the update was ready in about a month after release. I'd imagine the same for the 30D.

Yeah, cool yer jets, Nik!

patch29 · March 31, 2006

I think Phase One's Capture One has an update for the 30D, you could use it as a demo for a while.

Nikolai · March 31, 2006

David,

DavidTO wrote:

Yeah, cool yer jets, Nik!

With ACR working (with this hack) I have no problems:-). Images seem a bit softer (unles I'm imagining things), I may need to play with styles more..

Bottomline - I'm chilling:-):D

Jacksmyname · April 1, 2006

Did the hack here. Just ran the script and all's well.
It puts the hacked copy in the right folder, so Bridge works fine too.
Jack

Nikolai · April 1, 2006

Script hack

Jacksmyname wrote:

Did the hack here. Just ran the script and all's well.
It puts the hacked copy in the right folder, so Bridge works fine too.
Jack

Weird. Mine didn't, I had to go manually...

But the important thing - it works:-)

ziggy53 · April 1, 2006

Isn't it amazing that the camera manufacturers and Adobe don't work more closely together? (I shouldn't single out Adobe, I guess, because the camera manufacturers don't seem to cooperate with any of the software firms.)

There cannot be many differences between the 20D and the 30D RAW files, right? They are the same imager and processor, as I understand, so there should be only minor header differences in the RAW files. At least the diferences are small enough that independant "hackers" (and I use that in the best context in this instance) were able to sort the differences rather quickly and provide a solution.

If the customers really were important, you would think it would be in the best interests of everyone to have more cooperation all around from the companies we support with our purchases.

"What's wrong with this picture?" (... to quote a popular vernacular.)

ziggy53

Nikolai · April 1, 2006

Ziggy,

ziggy53 wrote:

Isn't it amazing that the camera manufacturers and Adobe don't work more closely together? (I shouldn't single out Adobe, I guess, because the camera manufacturers don't seem to cooperate with any of the software firms.)

There cannot be many differences between the 20D and the 30D RAW files, right? They are the same imager and processor, as I understand, so there should be only minor header differences in the RAW files. At least the diferences are small enough that independant "hackers" (and I use that in the best context in this instance) were able to sort the differences rather quickly and provide a solution.

If the customers really were important, you would think it would be in the best interests of everyone to have more cooperation all around from the companies we support with our purchases.

"What's wrong with this picture?" (... to quote a popular vernacular.)

ziggy53

Difference is simply in a camera signature within a DLL called "Camera Raw.8bi". The hack simply replaces one of the rarely used names with the Canon 30D's, thus fooling PS and Bridge into validity of the new .CR2 file (which features the signature in quesiton). As you said, there is no actual difference in the image structure, just a signature.
Too bad it takes Adobe so long.. And I wonder when the hack for MS Raw Viewer will come out:-)

Cheers!

pchr · April 2, 2006

Try living in Linux world! I use ufraw to import to gimp and it works with my 350D shots, but loses all the exif data. :cry

I can see the obvious benefits of Raw, but I'm pretty miserable about the fact that I think I'm going to have to install all the Canon software I got with my camera on my Windows partition which I prefer to only boot up when I really have to.

I really don't understand why camera manufacturers keep Raw formats so close to their chests, I can't see that Canon are going to collapse overnight if they publish their full Raw format details, on the internet, for free.

Hope that's not too off topic.

Nikolai · April 2, 2006

Raw, Linux, etc.

pchr wrote:

<own personal rant>Try living in Linux world! I use ufraw to import to gimp and it works with my 350D shots, but loses all the exif data. :cry

I can see the obvious benefits of Raw, but I'm pretty miserable about the fact that I think I'm going to have to install all the Canon software I got with my camera on my Windows partition which I prefer to only boot up when I really have to.

I really don't understand why camera manufacturers keep Raw formats so close to their chests, I can't see that Canon are going to collapse overnight if they publish their full Raw format details, on the internet, for free.</own personal rant>

Hope that's not too off topic.

Welcome to Dgrin!

I tried, didn't like it :-)
They don't make Photoshop fo Linux, do they?

As to the Raw - they all try to sell thier own proprietary software to handle it (which mostly sucks, IMHO), hence the use the secrecy cover to help those sales..

Cheers!

pchr · April 2, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

Welcome to Dgrin!

I tried, didn't like it :-)
They don't make Photoshop fo Linux, do they?

As to the Raw - they all try to sell thier own proprietary software to handle it (which mostly sucks, IMHO), hence the use the secrecy cover to help those sales..

Cheers!

Nope they don't though I think that might change as it was recently high in the top 10 list of bits of software that users want on Linux. Although Linux is still like only 1% (probably wrong figure, but anywho) of the PC market, the PC market is pretty big, so it might be worth while porting stuff over to Linux. I started with Gimp, so don't miss all the features of Photoshop.

I didn't realise that Canon sold their own software - I suppose it's an upgrade to the the software you get with the camera. That probably does explain it.

Ta.

Nikolai · April 2, 2006

Pchr,

pchr wrote:

Nope they don't though I think that might change as it was recently high in the top 10 list of bits of software that users want on Linux. Although Linux is still like only 1% (probably wrong figure, but anywho) of the PC market, the PC market is pretty big, so it might be worth while porting stuff over to Linux. I started with Gimp, so don't miss all the features of Photoshop.

I don't think they ever will, and let me tell you why: Linux community - I don't mean server's world, I mean geeks, nerds, etc. (no pun intended, I'm one of them:-) - is all about open source and free-for-all software.
As an example: one of the biggest bluders Borland ever took was when they actually listened to all the linux-inspired hype at slashdot, newsgroups, etc. and actually put a lot of efforts (year and a half!) to come out with Kylix - RAD tool (Delphi-like) that allowed fast and reliable building of GUI rich client apps on Linux and/or for Linux. Well, guess what: they were still in the process of declaring the victory when they were greeted with a cold shower quesiton "why is it not free and open sourced?".. From what I have heard they sold less than a thousand(!!!) copies.

That, and .NET, essentially resulted in a recent Borland decision to abandon dev tools market and switch to a "lifecycle management". Bloody shame, if you ask me.

Just MHO...

ziggy53 · April 2, 2006

Nikolai wrote:

... they all try to sell thier own proprietary software to handle it (which mostly sucks, IMHO) ...

IMHO also!

Usually, I look at the software that comes with the camera and say, "They have got to be kidding!" It's often that bad.

Compare that to the RSE, which is free, and which works pretty darned well. It's more of an inducement to buy the upgrade.

The other companies could take a lesson.

ziggy53

pchr · April 2, 2006

Bit of a topic steal I know but:

Nikolai wrote:

Bloody shame, if you ask me.

Yeah you have a point RE: Linux users are tight fisted hippies :-)

I think that demographic is going to change thanks to M. Shuttleworth and Ubuntu, I can even get a Linux magazine in Tesco's now! But then people have been harping on about year of the Linux desktop for quite a few years now.

Microsoft wrote:

Get .net before it gets you!

As for end of Borland's dev products. That's a bit of a shock! I thought there were still enough Delphi maniacs out there to support them, especially as recent versions have allowed for .net or win32 development. I'm still using D5 at work and that seems to still cut the mustard for most of the database software I write, though I'm worried I might have to get .net when Vista comes out.

ziggy53 wrote:

Usually, I look at the software that comes with the camera and say, "They have got to be kidding!" It's often that bad.

Agree. Apologies for n00bness, but what is RSE?

ziggy53 · April 2, 2006

pchr wrote:

... Agree. Apologies for n00bness, but what is RSE?

Sorry, RawShooterEssentials. Free download. It does require Win2000 and above and a processor with SSE, usually a Pentium III or one of the advanced Athlon processors, and the faster the better.:): No other platforms supported, unfortunately.

http://www.pixmantec.com/

ziggy53

pchr · April 2, 2006

ziggy53 wrote:

http://www.pixmantec.com/

I'll check it out as I think I'm going to have to go into windows for Raw processing if I don't want to lose my EXIF data. Thanks.

Nikolai · April 2, 2006

Delphi --> .Net

pchr wrote:

As for end of Borland's dev products. That's a bit of a shock! I thought there were still enough Delphi maniacs out there to support them, especially as recent versions have allowed for .net or win32 development. I'm still using D5 at work and that seems to still cut the mustard for most of the database software I write, though I'm worried I might have to get .net when Vista comes out.

Being a diehard Delphi fan myself, it was a point of saddness for me, too, although I definitely saw it coming.
We're currently moving all we can away from Delphi and into .NET.
As a matter of fact, I (with partners) even started a new business with one of the primary goals being to help others to do that (in addition to the usual development/consultancy/SQL Server/Oracle/Interbase/ADO stuff:-)

Cheers!

30D RAW rant

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