Toys for Bryce/Zion

gluwater

So I have been trying to figure out what I "need" for the dgrin 06 shootout. Mainly I am looking at what filters would be appropriate for the environment. Most of the filter threads I have seen on here have been for ND or Graduated ND filters. Would these have any use out in the desert? I know the Graduated ND's probably would but what if you don't have a straight horizon? I have also seen a lot of discusion on UV filters. I'm am guessing that this would be a must for the conditions we will be in, dust and blowing sand? Also what range in lens length are people bringing? I have 10-400 + TC's, will that entire range be needed? I have basically little to no practical experience in shooting landscapes, especially like we will have there. So educate me on what the necessities are. I'm sure I'm not the only one with questions like these. :ear

List of equipment recommended in this thread(I'll try to keep this updated if other items are suggested)
Neccesary:
Camera (duh)
Lenses, preferably wide, ranging between 10mm-200mm
Backpack or other camera bag, preferably that you can attach your tripod to
Good Tripod
Hat
Sunscreen
Bulb Blower, microfiber lens cleaning cloth, lens brush
Water
Good Shoes
Spare Battery

Not necesary but would be nice to have:
Spare CF Card
External Storage Device
Pano Clamp/Plate with bubble level
Circular Polerizer
Singh Ray Gold n Blue Polerizer
ND Filter/Graduated ND Filter
Binoculars
L Bracket
Flash
Flashlight
FRS Portable Communicator
GPS
Map and Compass
Cable Release
UV Filter
Film Changing Bag
Step up ring for Filters if your lenses have different filter diam.
Expo Disc
Laptop

Bob Bell

gluwater wrote:

So I have been trying to figure out what I "need" for the dgrin 06 shootout. Mainly I am looking at what filters would be appropriate for the environment. Most of the filter threads I have seen on here have been for ND or Graduated ND filters. Would these have any use out in the desert? I know the Graduated ND's probably would but what if you don't have a straight horizon? I have also seen a lot of discusion on UV filters. I'm am guessing that this would be a must for the conditions we will be in, dust and blowing sand? Also what range in lens length are people bringing? I have 10-400 + TC's, will that entire range be needed? I have basically little to no practical experience in shooting landscapes, especially like we will have there. So educate me on what the necessities are. I'm sure I'm not the only one with questions like these.

Nick, when I moved from the north burbs of chicago to phoenix, i cannot and still don't believe how dusty the southwest is. I end up cleaning filters a bunch, usually cause they are covered in dust. Bulb Blower works for the big stuff but dry pecpads is usually the trick.

I might have less experience than you with landscapes so I need a lot of help as well. Maybe Marc can give us a quick class the night we are in vegas.

For camera kit I am thinking: 20D, 20mm, 50mm(might leave at home), 100 macro, 28-70L, 70-200L, 400L+Tamron TC for any big animals, 550ex, better beamer, flash meter, compact binoculars, gitzo 1348.

Is there any use for a 24 TSE there? Normally I don't go wider than 20mm because of optical distortion, is stitching images better than ultrawides?

Good Idea for this thread Nick, I bet everyone has a ton of questions.

ziggy53

Nick,

I noticed that I tend to use wide-angle lenses more for landscapes and vistas. Anything in the 22mm to 28mm range for 35mm film, or equivalent, comes in really handy, for me.

If you happen upon wildlife, a long telephoto is almost mandatory, unless it's something very used to human visitors.

Macro is essential for capturing those mini-subjects.

A tripod is both a blessing, when you need it, and a pain, when your just lugging it. Take one anyway. Small and light is better than nothing.

Filters are small and light, but most effects can be created in software. Even extended or split focus can be accomplished with multiple exposures. (Selective zone and Stacking techniques.)

Practice in your own area, review your previous work, find out what what worked (and works) to your style and liking.

Take care, but have fun,

ziggy53

ziggy53

Bob Bell wrote:

Nick, when I moved from the north burbs of chicago to phoenix, i cannot and still don't believe how dusty the southwest is. I end up cleaning filters a bunch, usually cause they are covered in dust. Bulb Blower works for the big stuff but dry pecpads is usually the trick.

I might have less experience than you with landscapes so I need a lot of help as well. Maybe Marc can give us a quick class the night we are in vegas.

For camera kit I am thinking: 20D, 20mm, 50mm(might leave at home), 100 macro, 28-70L, 70-200L, 400L+Tamron TC for any big animals, 550ex, better beamer, flash meter, compact binoculars, gitzo 1348.

Is there any use for a 24 TSE there? Normally I don't go wider than 20mm because of optical distortion, is stitching images better than ultrawides?

Good Idea for this thread Nick, I bet everyone has a ton of questions.

Bob,

I was talking on the phone while you were sending your message. Very similar thoughts.

Nick,

Bob is just about giving you a blueprint for success.

ziggy53

pathfinder

I strongly rec carrying a small LED flashlight for walking to spots before sunrise.

A red LED is particularly nice as it does not hammer your night vision as much. Lowe's was recently selling one made by Coast that had red and white LEDs that were each switch controlled.

Cell phones may not work in the backcountry. Many shooters carry the little FRS portable radio communicaters - Motorola, and everybody else offer them at Sam's and other discount stores. Garmin even makes them with GPS built in now.

If you are planning to hike, a Map and Compass are as important as a hat with a brim and sunscreen. A handlheld GPS receiver is handy to have also. Some folks like to hike and or shoot to music - hopefully via earphones and an iPod like device.

Comfortable shoes or boots. A good soft bandana, and a nice soft, clean microfiber lens cleaning cloth to be used ONLY after blowing off the lens with a rocket type blower. IT WILL be dusty in the canyons. You may want to use a UV filter to protect from dust.

As for lenses - 24, 24-70, 90, 200 is what I plan to bring for landscapes. If you are shooting an APS sensor camera - D-70 or 20D - I would suggest something wider than 24 mm. Plus appropriate filters for the same. A cable release. Maybe a 580ex for fill flash for near subjects like rock art.

A tripod I can carry on my backpack.

And a couple bottles of water apiece.

Bob Bell

ziggy53 wrote:

Bob,

I was talking on the phone while you were sending your message. Very similar thoughts.

Nick,

Bob is just about giving you a blueprint for success.

ziggy53

I'm not a blueprint because I am only guessing.
I really don't have any clue on filters for this because I don't normally photograph lakes and mountains and such. Will a simple circ pol give the rich saturated blue skys and waters? What about those deep reds in mountains?

Bob Bell

pathfinder wrote:

I strongly rec carrying a small LED flashlight for walking to spots before sunrise.

A red LED is particularly nice as it does not hammer your night vision as much. Lowe's was recently selling one made by Coast that had red and white LEDs that were each switch controlled.

Cell phones may not work in the backcountry. Many shooters carry the little FRS portable radio communicaters - Motorola, and everybody else offer them at Sam's and other discount stores. Garmin even makes them with GPS built in now.

If you are planning to hike, a Map and Compass are as important as a hat with a brim and sunscreen. A handlheld GPS receiver is handy to have also. Some folks like to hike and or shoot to music - hopefully via earphones and an iPod like device.

Comfortable shoes or boots. A good soft bandana, and a nice soft, clean microfiber lens cleaning cloth to be used ONLY after blowing off the lens with a rocket type blower. IT WILL be dusty in the canyons. You may want to use a UV filter to protect from dust.

As for lenses - 24, 24-70, 90, 200 is what I plan to bring for landscapes. If you are shooting an APS sensor camera - D-70 or 20D - I would suggest something wider than 24 mm. Plus appropriate filters for the same. A cable release. Maybe a 580ex for fill flash for near subjects like rock art.

A tripod I can carry on my backpack.

And a couple bottles of water apiece.

BTW the extra large external lens case that attaches through MAS for Tamrac is the exact size of a 32oz Gatorade. I always carry one

On those hand held radios. I was reading about a couple kinds, one requires and FCC licenses and has a lot more range. Can you go into detail on this or if you just have a product name and model that we can get that is compatible with everyone elses.

ziggy53

Bob Bell wrote:

I'm not a blueprint because I am only guessing.
I really don't have any clue on filters for this because I don't normally photograph lakes and mountains and such. Will a simple circ pol give the rich saturated blue skys and waters? What about those deep reds in mountains?

Many modern auto-focus and/or digital cameras require the use of a circular polarizer for correct auto-focus and metering in the camera. I believe that if you use an external meter and manual focus, any polarizer will do. (It's just more work, is all.)

There is a short DGrin discussion:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=11166

You also should know that polarizers in general only work with respect to a particular angle to the polarized light source. That's why they have rotating rings, so that you can align the polarizer at a particular angle, regardless how the camera is held. Usually, you just look through the lens until you see the desired effect. Many polarizer filters also have a mark or arrow showing the direction of alignment. If you pan left or right, you change your relationship to the light source, and you will see a change in the effect of the polarizer.

Lenses that rotate the front element for either focus or zoom are not as convenient, since you have to focus/compose the shot and then either continue to hold the shutter button partially depressed while you rotate the polarizer, or disengage the auto-focus, locking it's position before rotating the polarizer.

Polarizers are great for reducing glare from a reflective surface, notably glass or water. The same rules of rotation apply.

I don't think I ever tried a polarizer to affect the reds in mountains, etc.?

ziggy53

gluwater

pathfinder wrote:

As for lenses - 24, 24-70, 90, 200 is what I plan to bring for landscapes. If you are shooting an APS sensor camera - D-70 or 20D - I would suggest something wider than 24 mm. Plus appropriate filters for the same. A cable release. Maybe a 580ex for fill flash for near subjects like rock art.

90? Is that the Tamron 90 Macro? I guess I'm worried about the in between range in lenses. I have the 10-22 but then my next lens is the 50mm, then 70-200. I think I will bring my 10-22, 50, 100 Macro, 70-200, and 300(not sure on the 300). I really want a lens to fill the 22-50 gap. I have been thinking of the 35L or 24-70L. But then when I think about it I don't really want to be carrying all that weight plus will I even be able to switch lenses out in the field without gumming up my sensor.

By appropriate filters are you talking about just UV filters or ND? Currently I only have a circ polerizer, but am looking on advice if anything else would help. I feel so confused

Dee

A changing bag
Back in the old days of long ago when we were developing our own black and white film we had a changing bag. There was a flat end with a zipper. Unzipper it, put in camera and film, developing tank and reel. You would stick your hands throw this elasticized opening and reach inside the zippered light proof bag and remove the film from the camera and thread it onto a developing spool, and put that into the developing tank. When done remove arms, unzip the other end of the bag.

I have no idea if it's dust proof but would something like that help?

B&H sells them, or just google for a photo.

Ann McRae

Well, I just bought a lowepro backpack, and put the sum of my equipment in it. I am now walking with it at lunch and when I walk the dog, to get used to hauling it around.

It has occured to me that I should pick up a spare battery.

As for lenses I will have my 17 - 85 mm and my 70 - 200mm as well as my 85mm and 135mm (but not sure they will be of any use).
And I will have my Epson P2000.

The binoculars and flashlight are really good tips.

I will be buying new hikers soon - any need for boots or will good comfy shoes do? And I think I'll get some nice lightweight all weather clothes.

Will wind be an issue?

ann

Stormdancing

Dee wrote:

Back in the old days of long ago when we were developing our own black and white film we had a changing bag. There was a flat end with a zipper. Unzipper it, put in camera and film, developing tank and reel. You would stick your hands throw this elasticized opening and reach inside the zippered light proof bag and remove the film from the camera and thread it onto a developing spool, and put that into the developing tank. When done remove arms, unzip the other end of the bag.

I have no idea if it's dust proof but would something like that help?

B&H sells them, or just google for a photo.

Dee, I have one.

Anyone want it? I don't think you could get a very big lens inside it. (like a big tele)
Just pay the shipping and it's yours.

Bob Bell

ziggy53 wrote:

Many modern auto-focus and/or digital cameras require the use of a circular polarizer for correct auto-focus and metering in the camera. I believe that if you use an external meter and manual focus, any polarizer will do. (It's just more work, is all.)

There is a short DGrin discussion:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=11166

You also should know that polarizers in general only work with respect to a particular angle to the polarized light source. That's why they have rotating rings, so that you can align the polarizer at a particular angle, regardless how the camera is held. Usually, you just look through the lens until you see the desired effect. Many polarizer filters also have a mark or arrow showing the direction of alignment. If you pan left or right, you change your relationship to the light source, and you will see a change in the effect of the polarizer.

Lenses that rotate the front element for either focus or zoom are not as convenient, since you have to focus/compose the shot and then either continue to hold the shutter button partially depressed while you rotate the polarizer, or disengage the auto-focus, locking it's position before rotating the polarizer.

Polarizers are great for reducing glare from a reflective surface, notably glass or water. The same rules of rotation apply.

I don't think I ever tried a polarizer to affect the reds in mountains, etc.?

ziggy53

the reds in the mountains looks like they have some kind of saturation filter. I am really out of my element here so I am not even sure if I'm using the right terms.

I've used circ pols for water shooting macros and stuff but I've tried getting that dark blue before in the sky. I guess its a constant adjustment for every angle. I'm gonna read that link you sent when I get home.

Thx for your help ziggy

Dee

How funny!

Stormdancing wrote:

Dee, I have one.

Anyone want it? I don't think you could get a very big lens inside it. (like a big tele)
Just pay the shipping and it's yours.

They are available in different sizes. I have no idea whatever happened to the one I had either! I think we must have had the 30 inch wide one. Maybe if they took off the lens shade first it might fit inside???

I'm trying to remember from when I was in that area, it was a long time ago. But I don't remember feeling like I needed a longer telephoto at all. Of course the wildlife shooters would disagree with me :

My major back-burner list of things to do is go thru all my slides and photos...

ziggy53

Stormdancing wrote:

Dee, I have one.

Anyone want it? I don't think you could get a very big lens inside it. (like a big tele)
Just pay the shipping and it's yours.

Dana,

I'd sure like to have one, if you don't mind?

Let me know how to proceed. (PM if you wish.)

Thanks,

ziggy53

Stormdancing

ziggy53 wrote:

Dana,

I'd sure like to have one, if you don't mind?

Let me know how to proceed. (PM if you wish.)

Thanks,

ziggy53

PM sent

gluwater

Dee wrote:

They are available in different sizes. I have no idea whatever happened to the one I had either! I think we must have had the 30 inch wide one. Maybe if they took off the lens shade first it might fit inside???

I'm trying to remember from when I was in that area, it was a long time ago. But I don't remember feeling like I needed a longer telephoto at all. Of course the wildlife shooters would disagree with me :

My major back-burner list of things to do is go thru all my slides and photos...

I wasn't necessarily thinking of wildlife with the telephoto. I was thinking more of getting shots of parts that you may not be able to get close enough to with a Wide angle or standard lens. I remember reading that at Yosemite Marc Muench said his most used focal lengths were 17 and 200. Anyone have experience on the subject of using telephotos for landscapes?

pathfinder

Bob Bell wrote:

I'm not a blueprint because I am only guessing.
I really don't have any clue on filters for this because I don't normally photograph lakes and mountains and such. Will a simple circ pol give the rich saturated blue skys and waters? What about those deep reds in mountains?

The sky is likely to be very blue even without a polarizing filter.

A polarizer will be useful for eliminating glare and reflections off of wall surfaces and vegetation and water surfaces.

Some folks feel a polarizer is best NOT used with lenses much wider than 35mm, to avoid too much variation in the skies.

The FRS radios are frequently called TalkAbout radios by Motorola or Family Service radios by other manufacturers. You can find them on Amazon or any of the web vendors. Sam's usually has them for sale also. Or Gander Mountain. They typically have 10 - 30 channels and a range of 1/2 mile or so. They usually cost around $40-80. No license is required for them. Many also include the GMRS radios transmitters that are more powerful, but they require a Federal license.

pathfinder

gluwater wrote:

90? Is that the Tamron 90 Macro? I guess I'm worried about the in between range in lenses. I have the 10-22 but then my next lens is the 50mm, then 70-200. I think I will bring my 10-22, 50, 100 Macro, 70-200, and 300(not sure on the 300). I really want a lens to fill the 22-50 gap. I have been thinking of the 35L or 24-70L. But then when I think about it I don't really want to be carrying all that weight plus will I even be able to switch lenses out in the field without gumming up my sensor.

By appropriate filters are you talking about just UV filters or ND? Currently I only have a circ polerizer, but am looking on advice if anything else would help. I feel so confused

I am bringing a 90 TSE, for pano work, along with a pano clamp and bubble level indicators. A pair of TCs with a 200mm will probably be all the long glass I bring. Or I might change my mind between now and May:):

If you own a 24-70 that might be very useful. If you shoot Antelope Canyon or any other slot canyon you will not want to change lenses in there. I don't plan to even take any other lenses into the slot canyons but the lens I want to shoot with.

In Antelope there were folks throwing sand into the air to help create the light beams in the pictures - think fine crystalline dust motes floating in air - Not something you want inside your camera.

Out in the field, you will probably be able to swap lenses if it is not too windy or dusty. Take a gander around and decide what you feel is right.

I actually thought briefly about using a film changing bag to change lenses in - and then decided against it. Most of them are cloth and I have concerns that swapping lenses on a DSLR inside a changing bag may end up getting more lint and fibers on the sensor. Are any of the film changing bags smooth plastic inside, like polyethylene??

A dark neutral density filter might be nice for moving water or waterfalls. You had one at Makinac, didn't you, Nick?

gluwater

Thanks for the info Path. No, I don't have an ND filter, just a 77mm Circular polerizer, that is what I was using at Makinac. Alright, here is a stupid question. If you are using a screw on ND or a circular polerizer, not a Cokin mount filter, would you still put a UV filter over that to protect the filter from the sand if it was windy?

pathfinder

gluwater wrote:

Thanks for the info Path. No, I don't have an ND filter, just a 77mm Circular polerizer, that is what I was using at Makinac. Alright, here is a stupid question. If you are using a screw on ND or a circular polerizer, not a Cokin mount filter, would you still put a UV filter over that to protect the filter from the sand if it was windy?

Nope.

But I rarely use a UV filter. I didn't use one in Antelope Canyon. But the trick is to use an air bulb or a lens brush, rather than a shirt tail to remove sand or dust.

gluwater

OK so I know circ polerizers work based on the angle to the sun and used on wide angle (28mm or wider I believe) they will give uneven skys. Well I've been looking at the Sing Ray Blue N Gold polerizer and was wondering if it gets the same effect. Are there any other filters that this affects? The more I look the more I want, I need a support group.

gluwater

Oh, I forgot. The polerizers made for wide angle lenses, would they work equally as well on other lenses or should standard lenses use the regular polerizers?

David_S85

gluwater wrote:

Oh, I forgot. The polerizers made for wide angle lenses, would they work equally as well on other lenses or should standard lenses use the regular polerizers?

Yes they'll work on other lenses. But remember the only reason they are marketed for wides is that the rings are thinner to help avoid vignetting, and not that they'll make skies even at wide focals. Due to their thinness, a lens cap might not grab very well. I'm still debating whether the well over $100 is worth it for one of these puppies, or if I should just get a moderate priced polarizer for my standard lens.

Skies seem naturally darker with the 10-22 on, for some reason I don't yet understand.

David_S85

Oh, and Nick, this thread is bound to help everyone spend lots more money than they thought they were going to.

Thanks.

gluwater

David_S85 wrote:

Yes they'll work on other lenses. But remember the only reason they are marketed for wides is that the rings are thinner to help avoid vignetting, and not that they'll make skies even at wide focals. Due to their thinness, a lens cap might not grab very well. I'm still debating whether the well over $100 is worth it for one of these puppies, or if I should just get a moderate priced polarizer for my standard lens.

Skies seem naturally darker with the 10-22 on, for some reason I don't yet understand.

The ones for the wides are thinner and have no outside threads, what is the difference between these and the "slim" ones? Is there any difference?

gluwater

David_S85 wrote:

Oh, and Nick, this thread is bound to help everyone spend lots more money than they thought they were going to.

Thanks.

So when do you want to try out the IR XT I just got in the mail today?

David_S85

gluwater wrote:

So when do you want to try out the IR XT I just got in the mail today?

DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!


I want one of those soooooo baaaaaaad!
I smell an Arboretum Dgrin Midwest shoot in the works.

OK, on the thin filters, some have outside threads (one thread?), and others don't.

pathfinder

gluwater wrote:

OK so I know circ polerizers work based on the angle to the sun and used on wide angle (28mm or wider I believe) they will give uneven skys. Well I've been looking at the Sing Ray Blue N Gold polerizer and was wondering if it gets the same effect. Are there any other filters that this affects? The more I look the more I want, I need a support group.

Nick, I have a Sing Ray Blue N Gold polarizer that you can borrow if you need to. I think it is expensive but you know me.........77mm diam

Here are a couple of frames shot with a Blue N Gold polarizer - these are not B&W but color







I see some sharpening artifacts in these images - trust me, they are not seen in the originals on my hard drive.

Stormdancing

David_S85 wrote:

I smell an Arboretum Dgrin Midwest shoot in the works.

Oh I would love a Midwest shoot. We have quite a few of us on Dgrin.
Let me know!

Bob Bell

Wow those are great colors in that landscape. So could you have gotten the same sky colors with a normal Circ Pol?