Great thread, I appreciate all the tips. I'm a bit paranoid about this condensation possibility. How much of a temperature difference needs to be worried about? If it's 70 in the apartment and 40 outside, is that something to worry about? What about if it's warm in the car but 20 degrees outside and I'm just walking through a parking lot for ten minutes to get somewhere warm again? If condensation does happen, what can be done about it? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I just spent some decent change on my first nice lenses and I'm a bit worried about them...
Great thread, I appreciate all the tips. I'm a bit paranoid about this condensation possibility. How much of a temperature difference needs to be worried about? If it's 70 in the apartment and 40 outside, is that something to worry about? What about if it's warm in the car but 20 degrees outside and I'm just walking through a parking lot for ten minutes to get somewhere warm again? If condensation does happen, what can be done about it? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I just spent some decent change on my first nice lenses and I'm a bit worried about them...
If it was that much of a concern, I'd have to trash all my equipment. Really, don't go crazy. Just give them some time, don't go changing lenses or even opening lens caps during the acclimatizing period (either warm to cold or back the other way). Lenses are all pretty well sealed these days, so its not like all of a sudden liters of water will find its way in through condensation. I treated all my equipment like surgical stuff at first too, but what's the fun in that?
from Andy: winter is one of my most favorite times for photography. as some of our friends in the northern climes are already receiving snow, i thought it would be a good time to start a winter photography tips thread.
exposure / metering:
the most important time i can give you is to overexpose that snow! most camera light meters are fooled by the bright snow, and will underexpose drastically. so, i find that between +1 and +1 2/3s positive ec is needed for most brightliy lit snow scenes. experiment to see what's right for your camera, but it'll for sure be in this range.
white balance: most cameras are fooled by the white snow, and their auto whitebalance doesn't get it right. learn to set your white balance manually, and i find that setting it manually against the white snow works great much of the time. of course, you can use a grey card, expodisc, or other device, too, but for me, the snow works just great.
are there more exposure / metering tips elsewhere u recommend ??
Boy, seems i chose a "timely" question.... one that u were "just" working on..
thanx,
troy
My kid said to me today, "daddy, I hope we get a FOOT of snow!" Sadly, Troy, you and I won't have to shovel today, only 1" or so ... not enough to play on!
If it was that much of a concern, I'd have to trash all my equipment. Really, don't go crazy. Just give them some time, don't go changing lenses or even opening lens caps during the acclimatizing period (either warm to cold or back the other way). Lenses are all pretty well sealed these days, so its not like all of a sudden liters of water will find its way in through condensation. I treated all my equipment like surgical stuff at first too, but what's the fun in that?
Going from a cold, dry environment to a much warmer, humid environment is always asking for trouble in regard to condensation.
I was shooting birds last winter at Bosque del Apache in New Mexico in February before sunrise - the temp was in the low teens and I was outside for about an hour or so. I decided to warm up and got back into my truck and turned the heater on - nice dry New Mexico air warmed up by the heater in my pickup - and promptly developed a coating of frost clear across the front element of my telephoto. Literally you could not see anything through it, because I did not think I would need to put it in a bag since I was just getting back into my truck, not going inside a nice warm moist building. I should have left it stay outside in the cold, it was not complaining about the temp, but my fingers were.
Fortunately the moisture was ONLY on the outside and when the lens warmed up enough to melt the frost, it promptly evaporated.
But that degree of condensation could occur on the mirror or the sensor or the electrnic components inside the camera body also if ther are not sealed properly. I think this will continue to be an area that displays further need for improvement, particularly in consumer grade photo equipment.
There was a recall of a number of P&S cameras last summer due to moisture getting beneath or into the imaging sensor - I don't remember the details but the sensor was used in several brands of Point and Shoots. Panasonic or Sony chip maybe?? Anyone else remember this issue?
Anyway, don't stay indoors in the rain or snow - go out and shoot - but try to stay dry - both you and the camera and lenses - and be sure very cold gear is sealed into a freezer bag or water tight plastic container before returning to warm, moist dwellings.
They say it can get down to 9 degrees in there. I dont want to damage my cam or battery. Here is what they say about it - May I take photos? Guests are welcome to bring cameras and take photos of the ICE! exhibit. Please check the manufacturers information regarding the cold tolerance of your camera equipment. Gaylord Texan™ Resort is not responsible for damage to any camera equipment caused by the extreme cold temperature. For your convenience, single-use cameras are available for purchase.
Andy, fall is one thing, but winter is kind of pushing it in the Carolinas. The grass gets browner, though.
ginger
That reminds me of my trip to Daytona Bike week 2 years ago. While traveling through N.Carolina we came through what the local news called a snow storm. Right, 1" of snow . The locals were spinning thier cars off the road like crazy. They even closed a section of 95. We get 1" of snow around here and we don't even notice it.
A lot of folks are worried about condensation.
I live in Minnesota, and I've have had the lens fog up when I come in from the
cold. But I don't think it's ever done any damage to any of my cameras or
lens, digital or film.
I could see the problem if the humidity in your house is 60 or 70 percent.
But normally when it's cold, the humidity in your house is normally low.
Don't let this stop you from going out to have some fun.
10 degrees F and snowing the whole time we were out.
It was better that it was cold, the snow wouldn't melt on the camera.
winter carnival ice sculpture
When we had the ice castle, people would take pennies out of their pockets
and melt them into/onto the ice.
from Andy: winter is one of my most favorite times for photography. as some of our friends in the northern climes are already receiving snow, i thought it would be a good time to start a winter photography tips thread.
exposure / metering:
the most important time i can give you is to overexpose that snow! most camera light meters are fooled by the bright snow, and will underexpose drastically. so, i find that between +1 and +1 2/3s positive ec is needed for most brightliy lit snow scenes. experiment to see what's right for your camera, but it'll for sure be in this range.
white balance: most cameras are fooled by the white snow, and their auto whitebalance doesn't get it right. learn to set your white balance manually, and i find that setting it manually against the white snow works great much of the time. of course, you can use a grey card, expodisc, or other device, too, but for me, the snow works just great.
are there more exposure / metering tips elsewhere u recommend ??
quick question regarding this info.....
do you mean to dial in the +ec and shoot RAW or if you are shooting RAW then just adjust it in post....???
i also find that when i dial in +ec my shutter speed decreases resulting in blurrier pics so is the whole game about finding a "happy balance"?
do you mean to dial in the +ec and shoot RAW or if you are shooting RAW then just adjust it in post....???
i also find that when i dial in +ec my shutter speed decreases resulting in blurrier pics so is the whole game about finding a "happy balance"?
troy
Dial in postive Exposure Compensation and your shots (RAW or JPG) will need less (sometimes, if any) exposure adjustments in post. Outdoors, on a sunny day in the snow, you should have no problems with shutter speed, Troy. If you are, well, boost your 20D ISO to 200 or 400 if you have to
I don't think I have ever seen such a useful post. This is stuff I can use everyday. The part about shooting snow on a sunny day is really good as we get lots of sun down here.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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John MuellerRegistered UsersPosts: 2,555Major grins
I don't think I have ever seen such a useful post. This is stuff I can use everyday. The part about shooting snow on a sunny day is really good as we get lots of sun down here.
Yeah yeah Harry
The best tip for you was the sun screen
the most important advice I can give you is to overexpose that snow!
Hi Andy !
We all have different techniques ! The problem that I typically meet with not shooting manual / "3d color matrix metering" (these are Nikon's terminology for the mode where the camera use the entire scene to evaluate the exposure - I've forgotten how it is called in Canon's world) is that:
- the amount of overexposure is in my experience a bit variable depending on how much the subject fills the pic up at the expense of the snow (less snow => less overexposure),
- recent cameras have algorithms that have been taught to recognize the unusual lighting and may be sometimes quite successful, sometimes less at correcting in part the underexposure (the D70 is a good example). The advantage is that you end up with typically less overexposure to apply (I'd start with +0.7 EV with my D70) - but the system lacks reproducibility, so the best amount of overexposure is still a trial and error affair,
- the worst of all: speculars (reflections) off the snow are a strong possibility and they may fool your meter even more.
If conditions permit, I prefer to spot meter the snow (avoid these reflections !) and set the camera manually. Ideally you should know how much dynamic range your camera has above 12% grey. For the D70 that is 3.5 EV. So applying a +3.5EV (3.3 EV if you're using 1/3 EV increments) to the exposure that the spot meter recommends when metering the snow will bring the white stuff just at the edge of highlights with a small safety margin (in other words: exposure to the right of the histogram).
p.s.: if you use the snow for white balance, try to be aware of these reflections as well.
on not letting the snow cause under-exposed subjects
a tip I got from one of the mags last fall/winter - just meter based on your hand. Get close enough to it that there's not too much snow, so that your hand dominates the frame. Flesh is, for the most part, what you're really going to be wanting to capture with the right exposure anyway. Figure out what shutter/aperature works for your hand up close and it'll likely be right for shots of little suzie's first time on skiis too.
a tip I got from one of the mags last fall/winter - just meter based on your hand.
I personally would not follow that tip. I'd rather slightly underexpose the subject and avoid to loose all details in the snow: in other words, you also need to make sure that the snow is not overexposed (in addition to not underexposing the pic, as Andy mentioned).
I shoot in what some people would call extreme cold temps. -15c to -40c
I have never had battery problems. Cold skin yes. Frost bit cheeks yes.
I hang my camera from its strap and have my coat zippered over camera and my ample belly keeps it warm.
Use liner gloves or the stretchy wool ,kind of like the ones you give your kids under your mitts or gloves.
They fit tight and allow you full control and dexterity.At times when I have been without these glove liners, fingers or any other exposed skin will freeze within seconds.
No BS.
No need to chimp its to cold to chimp anyhow and that is a big battery drain.
From the email.... and if I may ask folks, please, don't be shy!!! Ask your questions here in the forum (you have to register, it's free - easy - and we don't bite..well, most of us don't ).
I was reading your post on winter photography tips and I didn't see anything about what to do when you bring your camera back indoors. What do you suggest? Thanks
Avoid going from extreme cold outside to toasty warm and higher humidity inside... your camera will fog, condensate... Best is to bring your gear into a neutral zone for a while, first - like an hour or so. If you can't do that, try to put your camera / lens in big gallon ziplocks... that will allow the camera to change temps to the inside temps without condensation...
Great tips folks!!! I will add just one other bit..FEET! My feet have always been sensitive to cold which has kept me inside except for 'have tos'. My feet get cold I'm done.
Well it was 11F yesterday morning and I decided to try out my LLBean Snow Walkers, very comfy tennis shoe (high top) deals. I was out well over an hour and my feet were warm as toast Fingers got pretty cold, need to do something about that, but hey, warm feet out shooting in the snow!!!
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moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
exposure / metering:
the most important time i can give you is to overexpose that snow! most camera light meters are fooled by the bright snow, and will underexpose drastically. so, i find that between +1 and +1 2/3s positive ec is needed for most brightliy lit snow scenes. experiment to see what's right for your camera, but it'll for sure be in this range.
white balance: most cameras are fooled by the white snow, and their auto whitebalance doesn't get it right. learn to set your white balance manually, and i find that setting it manually against the white snow works great much of the time. of course, you can use a grey card, expodisc, or other device, too, but for me, the snow works just great.
are there more exposure / metering tips elsewhere u recommend ??
Yeah - check out My SmugBlog
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thanx,
troy
My kid said to me today, "daddy, I hope we get a FOOT of snow!" Sadly, Troy, you and I won't have to shovel today, only 1" or so ... not enough to play on!
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SOME lenses are sealed - Nikon's better lenses and some of Canon's L's are, but many others are not. Read this thread -- http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=21535&page=1&pp=10&highlight=Mackinac
Going from a cold, dry environment to a much warmer, humid environment is always asking for trouble in regard to condensation.
I was shooting birds last winter at Bosque del Apache in New Mexico in February before sunrise - the temp was in the low teens and I was outside for about an hour or so. I decided to warm up and got back into my truck and turned the heater on - nice dry New Mexico air warmed up by the heater in my pickup - and promptly developed a coating of frost clear across the front element of my telephoto. Literally you could not see anything through it, because I did not think I would need to put it in a bag since I was just getting back into my truck, not going inside a nice warm moist building. I should have left it stay outside in the cold, it was not complaining about the temp, but my fingers were.
Fortunately the moisture was ONLY on the outside and when the lens warmed up enough to melt the frost, it promptly evaporated.
But that degree of condensation could occur on the mirror or the sensor or the electrnic components inside the camera body also if ther are not sealed properly. I think this will continue to be an area that displays further need for improvement, particularly in consumer grade photo equipment.
There was a recall of a number of P&S cameras last summer due to moisture getting beneath or into the imaging sensor - I don't remember the details but the sensor was used in several brands of Point and Shoots. Panasonic or Sony chip maybe?? Anyone else remember this issue?
Anyway, don't stay indoors in the rain or snow - go out and shoot - but try to stay dry - both you and the camera and lenses - and be sure very cold gear is sealed into a freezer bag or water tight plastic container before returning to warm, moist dwellings.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
They say it can get down to 9 degrees in there. I dont want to damage my cam or battery. Here is what they say about it -
May I take photos?
Guests are welcome to bring cameras and take photos of the ICE! exhibit. Please check the manufacturers information regarding the cold tolerance of your camera equipment. Gaylord Texan™ Resort is not responsible for damage to any camera equipment caused by the extreme cold temperature. For your convenience, single-use cameras are available for purchase.
That is why I am asking.
Arlington, Tx
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Canon EOS 5D : Bogen 3051 tripod : Bogen Monopod : Bogen 3030 head unit : Canon Speedlight 580EX : Canon EF 28-200 F3.5 : Canon 70-200 f2.8L : Canon 24-70mm F2.8L and other Canon Gear
The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE." - Ernst Haas
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I live in Minnesota, and I've have had the lens fog up when I come in from the
cold. But I don't think it's ever done any damage to any of my cameras or
lens, digital or film.
I could see the problem if the humidity in your house is 60 or 70 percent.
But normally when it's cold, the humidity in your house is normally low.
Don't let this stop you from going out to have some fun.
10 degrees F and snowing the whole time we were out.
It was better that it was cold, the snow wouldn't melt on the camera.
winter carnival ice sculpture
When we had the ice castle, people would take pennies out of their pockets
and melt them into/onto the ice.
15 degrees F.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
I love the avatar. It cracks me up every time.
Chris
Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
do you mean to dial in the +ec and shoot RAW or if you are shooting RAW then just adjust it in post....???
i also find that when i dial in +ec my shutter speed decreases resulting in blurrier pics so is the whole game about finding a "happy balance"?
troy
Dial in postive Exposure Compensation and your shots (RAW or JPG) will need less (sometimes, if any) exposure adjustments in post. Outdoors, on a sunny day in the snow, you should have no problems with shutter speed, Troy. If you are, well, boost your 20D ISO to 200 or 400 if you have to
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http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
The best tip for you was the sun screen
Cincinnati Smug Leader
We all have different techniques ! The problem that I typically meet with not shooting manual / "3d color matrix metering" (these are Nikon's terminology for the mode where the camera use the entire scene to evaluate the exposure - I've forgotten how it is called in Canon's world) is that:
- the amount of overexposure is in my experience a bit variable depending on how much the subject fills the pic up at the expense of the snow (less snow => less overexposure),
- recent cameras have algorithms that have been taught to recognize the unusual lighting and may be sometimes quite successful, sometimes less at correcting in part the underexposure (the D70 is a good example). The advantage is that you end up with typically less overexposure to apply (I'd start with +0.7 EV with my D70) - but the system lacks reproducibility, so the best amount of overexposure is still a trial and error affair,
- the worst of all: speculars (reflections) off the snow are a strong possibility and they may fool your meter even more.
If conditions permit, I prefer to spot meter the snow (avoid these reflections !) and set the camera manually. Ideally you should know how much dynamic range your camera has above 12% grey. For the D70 that is 3.5 EV. So applying a +3.5EV (3.3 EV if you're using 1/3 EV increments) to the exposure that the spot meter recommends when metering the snow will bring the white stuff just at the edge of highlights with a small safety margin (in other words: exposure to the right of the histogram).
p.s.: if you use the snow for white balance, try to be aware of these reflections as well.
Thierry
Get Plane tickets to florida to shoot with Harry.
www.zxstudios.com
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I hear adding a ND helps for Snow shots....snow on a sunny day and really goof with your metering!!
Any tips on filter usage?
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a tip I got from one of the mags last fall/winter - just meter based on your hand. Get close enough to it that there's not too much snow, so that your hand dominates the frame. Flesh is, for the most part, what you're really going to be wanting to capture with the right exposure anyway. Figure out what shutter/aperature works for your hand up close and it'll likely be right for shots of little suzie's first time on skiis too.
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
Thierry
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
I have never had battery problems. Cold skin yes. Frost bit cheeks yes.
I hang my camera from its strap and have my coat zippered over camera and my ample belly keeps it warm.
Use liner gloves or the stretchy wool ,kind of like the ones you give your kids under your mitts or gloves.
They fit tight and allow you full control and dexterity.At times when I have been without these glove liners, fingers or any other exposed skin will freeze within seconds.
No BS.
No need to chimp its to cold to chimp anyhow and that is a big battery drain.
Cheers and keep warm
Tim
Avoid going from extreme cold outside to toasty warm and higher humidity inside... your camera will fog, condensate... Best is to bring your gear into a neutral zone for a while, first - like an hour or so. If you can't do that, try to put your camera / lens in big gallon ziplocks... that will allow the camera to change temps to the inside temps without condensation...
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I should have read this thread more before going out tonight.
Chris
Detroit Wedding Photography Blog
Canon 10D | 20D | 5D
Well it was 11F yesterday morning and I decided to try out my LLBean Snow Walkers, very comfy tennis shoe (high top) deals. I was out well over an hour and my feet were warm as toast