challenge comments

AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
edited October 19, 2004 in The Dgrin Challenges
i'm sorry to have to report that, due to my incredibly busy schedule, i will not be able to continue to critique and comment on every challenge photo any more.

done right, it takes me usually about 2 hours total time. and while that may not sound like much, when that 2 hours is piled on top of all the other hours i spend on the challenges, and on other dgrin stuff, i simply cannot do it anymore.

i will begin, however, to make comments as i'm able to, in the comment threads that everyone is using for their critiques prior to entering photos.

thank you all, for your understanding in this matter. it was not an easy decision for me to make.
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Comments

  • cmr164cmr164 Registered Users Posts: 1,542 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    andy wrote:
    i'm sorry to have to report that, due to my incredibly busy schedule, i will not be able to continue to critique and comment on every challenge photo any more.

    done right, it takes me usually about 2 hours total time. and while that may not sound like much, when that 2 hours is piled on top of all the other hours i spend on the challenges, and on other dgrin stuff, i simply cannot do it anymore.

    i will begin, however, to make comments as i'm able to, in the comment threads that everyone is using for their critiques prior to entering photos.

    thank you all, for your understanding in this matter. it was not an easy decision for me to make.
    I guess that I will drop participation in the challenges. It is a difficult decision but seems to be the correct one.
    Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
    Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
    Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    aww c'mon charles
    cmr164 wrote:
    I guess that I will drop participation in the challenges. It is a difficult decision but seems to be the correct one.

    if you were participating becuase i gave comments ... c'mon now ... these challenge are about growing our skills, learning from each other, self-motivation, and self-critique.

    do me a favor, and challenge yourself to a half-dozen more, and see if you don't become a better photographer for it. deal.gif?
  • lynnesitelynnesite Registered Users Posts: 747 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    andy wrote:
    i'm sorry to have to report that, due to my incredibly busy schedule, i will not be able to continue to critique and comment on every challenge photo any more.

    done right, it takes me usually about 2 hours total time. and while that may not sound like much, when that 2 hours is piled on top of all the other hours i spend on the challenges, and on other dgrin stuff, i simply cannot do it anymore.

    i will begin, however, to make comments as i'm able to, in the comment threads that everyone is using for their critiques prior to entering photos.

    thank you all, for your understanding in this matter. it was not an easy decision for me to make.

    I appreciate the work you do/did. There is a range of skillsets here but we all benefit from shooting the themes while helping each other with constructive comments.

    Lynne
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    lynnesite wrote:
    I appreciate the work you do/did. There is a range of skillsets here but we all benefit from shooting the themes while helping each other with constructive comments.

    Lynne

    i'm still going to comment.
  • cmr164cmr164 Registered Users Posts: 1,542 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    andy wrote:
    if you were participating becuase i gave comments ... c'mon now ... these challenge are about growing our skills, learning from each other, self-motivation, and self-critique.

    do me a favor, and challenge yourself to a half-dozen more, and see if you don't become a better photographer for it. deal.gif?
    I would like to see the prescreening removed entirely from the challenge. The 10 limit in a poll can be handled by a variety of methods. But let the populace deside the finalists if weeding needs to be done. Become a participant and divorce yourself from the judging process and I will willingly come back.
    deal.gif
    Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
    Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
    Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,936 moderator
    edited October 18, 2004
    Andy,

    Thanks for your participation.

    For me, the challenges are a lot of fun and I do learn from them. Mostly
    by comparison to other shooters. When I do receive feedback, it's all the
    better.

    Given this isn't your job, I can understand your decision.

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    cmr164 wrote:
    I would like to see the prescreening removed entirely from the challenge. The 10 limit in a poll can be handled by a variety of methods. But let the populace deside the finalists if weeding needs to be done. Become a participant and divorce yourself from the judging process and I will willingly come back.
    deal.gif
    Charles, I don't think that is a bad idea. I would prefer that there not be finalists. I would prefer that I not get involved and would prefer not to send this, but I felt so bad this afternoon. I never feel that way after the voting, only after the expert who really knows who is good and who is bad has passed judgement.

    I am not making any threats as I am going to look out for myself, and my photography is very important to me. I am the type who just disappears in most cases. This afternoon I was thinking about the landscapes and I kept coming back to the fact that no matter how hard I tried, the RAW, the tripods, no matter, the danger, I was never going to do this well. I really don't like doing things badly over and over.

    If it makes anyone feel better my oldest daughter says I am a spoiled brat. I like the photos that were chosen. I like some very well that weren't chosen.
    We have many new people, maybe I am not good enough anymore for this group..........that is a very real possibility. That is why I stay away from FM and contests and stuff.

    Charles, I don't know why you feel as you do, I don't know why I feel as I do.

    I do wish there had been a critique last time, not this time, last time.

    ginger

    I hate this, I keep coming out as the spoiled apple whining all the time.

    You know, though, I put a lot of time into this thing, too. I stay up all night, I have told them to take me off of the tennis roles..... I may not work for a living, but I am spending a lot of time doing this. In the past the rewards were great.

    Now I am living on that, I really can't go back. I was really happy for awhile and doing things I hadn't done in years........

    Just don't have anything else to say, no threats, just sadness....don't know how to make it work better. It was fine when I was a finalist, maybe that is why we like to know when we aren't, why we aren't.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    to participate, or not participate, that's everyone's choice. it's a shame if one doesn't participate imo, to miss out on the opportunity to learn and grow! the idea of the challenges, is to get focused on a theme for a fortnight ... and to concentrate on some photographic skills that you may learn during the two-week period. read the articles and links that i provide in the challenge setup, i work hard to find and provide some good material for everyone to hopefully learn something from.

    regarding the judging - and finalists - we are limited to max of 10 finalists, and we now have the previoius winner judging along with me. dunno how much more i can do on that. ne_nau.gif
  • miketaylor01miketaylor01 Registered Users Posts: 318 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    Ginger, I can understand your feelings on wondering why your photo was not chosen as a finalist as mine was not either but you have to rememebr that photography is a very subjective thing and what is beautiful in one persons eyes may not be in anothers. This does not mean that your work was not very good, but in that one instance your work was not chosen over others for whatever reason. Now as Andy stated he is stil going to comment just not the way he used to. I think I personnaly woudl prefer his comments in the way he is saying he is going to give them now as it gives us a chance to learn more while in the process of deciding what to enter and that feedback to me is much more valuable in the growth process than after the fact when we have produced what we believe to be our best product only to come to find that there was something about it that caused it not to be chosen. On that not I would have loved to have heard Andys comments as to why my work was not chosen and what his thoughts are as to what technically I can do to improve my work, but at the same time I completely understand why he is not able to do this at this time and will look forward to hearing his comments in the future.

    Just remember that ultimately its not the approval of others that you should ultimately be seeking, but your own approval of what you have accompished. No matter how good you think someone might be at something they are also always learning new and better ways to improve their work as well.

    As for you not being good enough for this forum any longer I completely disagree with you on that.

    Just my 2 cents and I hope this jumbled mess of a response helps others in one way or another.
    Mike

    Sigma SD9, SD14, and DP1
    http://miketaylor.giph.com
  • webwizardwebwizard Registered Users Posts: 73 Big grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    I like the challenges because it gives me a reason to shoot and a theme to go after. If I win, I win but who cares, its the practice that counts. I am very competitive by nature so I expect to win some eventually but mostly, I'm in it for the fun.

    The challenge this week is having to go to work and trying to find some minimalist kinds of landscapes on my office commute route! Besides, I'll be in San Francisco this weekend! Last week was my first try and even though my photo didn't get selected, I am undaunted.

    I was surprised to see Lynn's piece in the finals only because I had shot a couple that were very similar to hers and she beat me to it! I decided to submit another photo rather than have something that was so close to her work.
    9837960-S.jpg

    9999145-S.jpg


    Lynn liked my blur shot("I'm late . . .", below) better but I didn't enter it because I didn't like it as much. Maybe if I had listened to her. . .
    9999144-S.jpg

    I went with the Bear Mountain bridge shot even though the "Spans of Time" stretched the challenge theme because . . . well, I just liked it the best.

    I have an old friend whose belief is that "life is too important to be taken seriously". It took me a long time to accept that. I think the purpose of these challenges is to have fun, otherwise why bother?

    People are going to be passing judgement on me all my life. Who cares? The fact that my photo did not get selected as a finalist does not mean that my work is any better or worse than yours. I've had people pay me more for a photo that I thought was a poor shot and pass by the one that I beleived was way better. It's just their opininon and it gives me something to shoot for(sorry for the pun).
  • DJ-S1DJ-S1 Registered Users Posts: 2,303 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    webwizard wrote:
    I like the challenges because it gives me a reason to shoot and a theme to go after. If I win, I win but who cares, its the practice that counts. I am very competitive by nature so I expect to win some eventually but mostly, I'm in it for the fun.

    I think the purpose of these challenges is to have fun, otherwise why bother?
    clap.gifthumb.gifylsuper.gifbeer.gifnod.gif

    Rats , I ran out of "I-agree-with-you" smilies...:D
  • snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    I agree, Charles, but...
    cmr164 wrote:
    I would like to see the prescreening removed entirely from the challenge. The 10 limit in a poll can be handled by a variety of methods. But let the populace deside the finalists if weeding needs to be done. Become a participant and divorce yourself from the judging process and I will willingly come back. deal.gif

    I think we could try doing away with the preliminary round of judging. It means taking a risk however. Right now we have an experienced photographer to make sure that the best photos get due consideration. We do have a number of experienced photographers among our membership, but out of hundreds of members what is the percentage? Some people tend to vote based on emotional appeal or vote for people they like etc. I believe the only way to keep voting truly fare is to have it anonymous. That would mean not seeing the pictures before the voting. Then how would we learn from each other? It's a catch 22 situation.

    I have to tell you, after doing it myself for the first time, judging is not easy. I tried to be completely impartial. I judged each photo on its own merrits, not compared to the others. I made up a point system. I gave a share of points to each of 4 criteria: Relavence to the theme, composition, technical merrit, originality & creativity. Using this method worked well. It's hard to not vote for people who have been nice to you and that sort of thing. But, sticking to the point system, is cold hard facts. I matched with Andy on six of the eight finalists. There were some that didn't make the cut that were very good photos. But remember, we had 28 entries. You have to cut it off somewhere. Not everyone can be a winner.

    There were so many great entries. I was just torn at the end. I had to try to break ties in my point system. I will be happy to give my comments on every photo if you would like me to. I'm not Andy, of course. :D I do think it will be great if Andy starts making comments in the comments thread. That will help us improve *before* the voting. We all value his opinion. Please, everyone, stay involved. Try to critique your own photos and remember this is supposed to be fun!

    Thanks, Andy, for all your time. I for one, will definitely miss your comments. I was curious to hear your opinions on those that didn't make the cut in Challenge 22. But, I understand. thumb.gif
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    Wow
    Can not believe some of the comments! To.....(you know who you are) slowly walk, don't run, to the medicine cabinet, take out those cute little pills the doctor prescribed for you, and take a hand full!

    Andy, thanks for all the work, comments, tutorials, and unselfish effort you have provided. When ever you have time or inclination your contributions will always be appreciated.

    Sam
  • landrumlandrum Registered Users Posts: 285 Major grins
    edited October 18, 2004
    Sam wrote:
    Can not believe some of the comments! To.....(you know who you are) slowly walk, don't run, to the medicine cabinet, take out those cute little pills the doctor prescribed for you, and take a hand full!

    Andy, thanks for all the work, comments, tutorials, and unselfish effort you have provided. When ever you have time or inclination your contributions will always be appreciated.

    Sam
    You can say that again!!! I'm sorry, but there are a bunch of whiners here. Appreciate the wonderful help that Andy provides and stop complaining that it isn't enough! I think that his commenting in the strings will be much more useful to help in shot selection and PS adjustments anyway.

    Sam summed it up perfectly (and much nicer than I).

    Andy, thank you!clap.gifclap.gifclap.gif
    Laurie :smooch

    www.PhotoByLaurie.com
  • cmr164cmr164 Registered Users Posts: 1,542 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    snapapple wrote:
    I think we could try doing away with the preliminary round of judging. It means taking a risk however. Right now we have an experienced photographer to make sure that the best photos get due consideration. We do have a number of experienced photographers among our membership, but out of hundreds of members what is the percentage? Some people tend to vote based on emotional appeal or vote for people they like etc. I believe the only way to keep voting truly fare is to have it anonymous. That would mean not seeing the pictures before the voting. Then how would we learn from each other? It's a catch 22 situation.
    Maybe it is difficult but I would rather have Andy's input freely given in as a co-contributor who is also the respected founder. Along with Rutt and Damon and a couple of others I find myself unhappy with the pre-screening and with the dropping of the challenge comments even the explanations for the prescreening is gone.
    snapapple wrote:
    I have to tell you, after doing it myself for the first time, judging is not easy. I tried to be completely impartial. I judged each photo on its own merrits, not compared to the others. I made up a point system. I gave a share of points to each of 4 criteria: Relavence to the theme, composition, technical merrit, originality & creativity. Using this method worked well. It's hard to not vote for people who have been nice to you and that sort of thing. But, sticking to the point system, is cold hard facts. I matched with Andy on six of the eight finalists. There were some that didn't make the cut that were very good photos. But remember, we had 28 entries. You have to cut it off somewhere. Not everyone can be a winner.

    There were so many great entries. I was just torn at the end. I had to try to break ties in my point system. I will be happy to give my comments on every photo if you would like me to. I'm not Andy, of course. :D I do think it will be great if Andy starts making comments in the comments thread. That will help us improve *before* the voting. We all value his opinion. Please, everyone, stay involved. Try to critique your own photos and remember this is supposed to be fun!
    yes it is. The combination of irritation with some who tie their whole existence to the challenges and my dissatisfaction with the prescreening has turned this into a less fun exercise. I had already backed off a lot from participation so this is not a big change.
    snapapple wrote:
    Thanks, Andy, for all your time. I for one, will definitely miss your comments. I was curious to hear your opinions on those that didn't make the cut in Challenge 22. But, I understand. thumb.gif
    I absolutely agree. Andy's founding of the challenges was a wonderful thing and his comments are always insightful particularly when I find them inciteful :D

    I will miss his final comments.
    Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
    Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
    Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
  • FreeUpsFreeUps Registered Users Posts: 135 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    Is it really worth it...
    .. putting in all this effort to be unhappy?? As Andy says, "ENJOY PHOTOGRAPHY".

    If the negative critique is too much to handle, then competetive photography is not the route to take - I.E. Dgrin photo challenges.. It shouldn't even be competetive, but to many of us it is. I understand taking this serious, thats good, it shows devotion... but when negative attitudes come out because things don't go the way you want, its not a very nice attitude.

    Things change; they'll never stay the same. Everyone should be happy that there's so much traffic to be seen by Dgrin these days. more people = more photography = more input = more everything for me.

    Being one of the newer members here at Dgrin, it makes me unhappy to hear that some older members wish I, along with others, weren't here. I've heard it multiple times, "Theres too many people now, its just not the same great community it used to be."

    You couldn't possibly expect a place this great to stay unpopulated. This is the best photography forum I've ever come across. I'm glad it is where it is, and I hope to see it flourish more and more in time.

    This grinners happy, and I haven't been selected for the top ten challenge photos once. :D

    Sorry for the rant, I just feel like there is a lack of appreciation.
    No time for the old in-out, love, I've just come to read the meter
  • cmr164cmr164 Registered Users Posts: 1,542 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    FreeUps wrote:
    .. putting in all this effort to be unhappy?? As Andy says, "ENJOY PHOTOGRAPHY".

    If the negative critique is too much to handle, then competetive photography is not the route to take - I.E. Dgrin photo challenges.. It shouldn't even be competetive, but to many of us it is. I understand taking this serious, thats good, it shows devotion... but when negative attitudes come out because things don't go the way you want, its not a very nice attitude.
    I want more critique not less. Let it rip. Pick on every detail. Heck yes!! That will help all of us become better.
    Freeups wrote:
    Things change; they'll never stay the same. Everyone should be happy that there's so much traffic to be seen by Dgrin these days. more people = more photography = more input = more everything for me.

    Being one of the newer members here at Dgrin, it makes me unhappy to hear that some older members wish I, along with others, weren't here. I've heard it multiple times, "Theres too many people now, its just not the same great community it used to be."
    *I* will never say or think that way. The more the merrier and the less like a clique the environment is. That is why (IMHO) Andy needs to step back from this baby he has created and let it grow outside of his personal control and preferences. His input with his own fresh photos and his comments unfettered from any actual filtering responsibility will benefit the community more as it grows. And grow it will.
    freeups wrote:
    You couldn't possibly expect a place this great to stay unpopulated. This is the best photography forum I've ever come across. I'm glad it is where it is, and I hope to see it flourish more and more in time.

    This grinners happy, and I haven't been selected for the top ten challenge photos once. :D

    Sorry for the rant, I just feel like there is a lack of appreciation.
    Rants are fine but if any of the above was aimed at me you are ranting in the wrong direction. beer.gif
    Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
    Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
    Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    I don't know where this is going, and I don't know what would work. But the phrase "be careful what you wish for" just came to mind.

    g
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • FreeUpsFreeUps Registered Users Posts: 135 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    Actually Charles, you are exactly the reason for that post. A duel! :duel

    Hehe jk. None of the above was for you Charles. Cheers back at ya. beer.gif

    Ginger, I dont follow on the "be careful what you wish for". Is that in regards to this place being overpopulated? I'm slowing down as the clock strikes 2 am. :twitch

    Wow, we have a smily for every emotion out there.

    Marshall
    No time for the old in-out, love, I've just come to read the meter
  • happysnapperhappysnapper Registered Users Posts: 224 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    yep
    From a very new member to this web site, I am amazed that such a fantastic forum is so 'underpopulated', and I am equally amazed that there may be people who think it is 'overpopulated.'

    In my opinion 28 entries in a web based digital photography challenge which offers such high quality as dgrin does, is not many at all. And I can see dgrin only growing (as it is so damn good).

    I say, share the word, tell more people, so we all can keep challenged and learning.

    And Andy, you do a super job, Thanks. And Snapapple, thanks too for your input for challenge 23.

    Cheers
    Yvette
    :roflhappily snapping
  • Head in the CloudsHead in the Clouds Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    Also a very new member, i love this site.

    i see the challenges as just that, a challenge, not necessarily a contest with huge prizes at stake! they challenge me to get outside, discover, play, learn, meet people, get outside my comfort zone (i walked into an antinque jewellers and asked if i could take photos of their oldest fob watch! - this is VERY outside my comfort zone!) and TO HAVE FUN!

    i'm challenged to do my best, i'm up against myself, not anybody else.

    My shot didn't get chosen as a finalist, but that doesn't matter. i know i posted the best photo i took during the challenge period and the shot was true to what i intended to capture artistically. that's the whole idea of the excersise.

    this site has many wonderful, artistic and talented photographers: old, young, experienced, inexperienced, knowledgeable, and those still learning ..... and that (at least i thought so) was what this site was all about ....... sharing our mutual love for photography, in an effort for ALL of us to improve.

    i respect each and every one of the photographs entered in this site, in the challenge/s and those chosen as finalists. each photograph is an expression of the vision of the photographer and an indication of how well they capture that vision. to me this makes every photograph worthy of respect.

    I find that those who have stated that they don't understand why some photos were chosen over others, or their own, to be incredibly disrespectful to those who were chosen.

    Photography is subjective. I like things that others dont. Others like things that I don't. Its human nature.

    We are lucky enough to have a challenge host willing to volunteer his time and effort to provide feedback on hundreds of photographs. Personally, I am extremely thankful for any second Andy spends considering the merits of one of my shots, and look forward to his comments in the threads.

    and as far as this site being 'overpopulated'.... - it is a WORLD WIDE web site. Take advantage of that. From the comfort of our homes we can take a tour of the streets of Manhatten, to the Sydney Opera House, to the Underground, over to Iraq and now Jerusalem! Embrace the global village ......

    AND HAVE FUN WITH PHOTOGRAPHY!!!!!

    getting off the soap box now........

    Kate.
    _______________
    Kate
    http://www.headintheclouds.smugmug.com/
    www.headinthecloudsphotography.blogspot.com

    Canon EOS 30D
    Sigma 10-20
    Canon 75-300 f4-5.6
    Canon 18-55
    Canon 50 f1.8
    Canon 430EX
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    charlie we've trod this ground before ...
    the votiing capability of the site doesn't allow more than 10 choices. somehow, you've got to get from the total number of entries (20-30+) down to 10.
    cmr164 wrote:
    I want more critique not less. Let it rip. Pick on every detail. Heck yes!! That will help all of us become better.


    *I* will never say or think that way. The more the merrier and the less like a clique the environment is. That is why (IMHO) Andy needs to step back from this baby he has created and let it grow outside of his personal control and preferences. His input with his own fresh photos and his comments unfettered from any actual filtering responsibility will benefit the community more as it grows. And grow it will.


    Rants are fine but if any of the above was aimed at me you are ranting in the wrong direction. beer.gif
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    No FreeUps. Over population has not occurred to me, except when you, or anyone else mentions it.

    I do miss the old crowd, but the new is good, too. I think some of us have different "issues" than others.

    I have stated mine, as much as a could in a "me" level of feelings (whining) as opposed to a "you" level of feelings (accusatory). My mention of new people only referred to you, them, whoever as good photographers, I think.

    My issues are more at the level of what can we do to alleviate the hurt that I feel and others seem to be expressing in different ways.

    Since you are being straight, I will be straight. I don't know all the names that have come in, but I do not resent you, and all the other new people, in any way. I don't know you well enough,:D

    I do worry that too many cooks whining and carrying on could bring on some action on the part of our benevolent leader that would not be beneficial in the long run.

    I just woke up after 3 hrs sleep, not blamed on you at all, we have been babysitting a neighbor's child since 5 AM. Don't know if I answered you..

    g

    I would hope that everyone, or most, hold back on acting until the dust has settled. We need to clearly see the road ahead. And make some headway on addressing the pain that people are feeling.

    Join in.
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • cmr164cmr164 Registered Users Posts: 1,542 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    andy wrote:
    the votiing capability of the site doesn't allow more than 10 choices. somehow, you've got to get from the total number of entries (20-30+) down to 10.
    2 Stage voting takes care of that. Twenty-eight entries breaks into 3 polls of 9/9/10 each, while 16 entries breaks into 8/8. The 2 or more finalists go into a runoff and the whole thing builds excitement. If/when we get to 100 entries we can find a way around that. The 10 choice limit is a strawman argument.

    I really would like you to see your time and opinions be more visible not less and that your skills and knowlege be in the comments section without people 'knowing' that they need your aproval to continue to the next stage.
    deal.gif
    Charles Richmond IT & Security Consultant
    Operating System Design, Drivers, Software
    Villa Del Rio II, Talamban, Pit-os, Cebu, Ph
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    charlie, the problem is ....
    cmr164 wrote:
    2 Stage voting takes care of that. Twenty-eight entries breaks into 3 polls of 9/9/10 each, while 16 entries breaks into 8/8. The 2 or more finalists go into a runoff and the whole thing builds excitement. If/when we get to 100 entries we can find a way around that. The 10 choice limit is a strawman argument.

    I really would like you to see your time and opinions be more visible not less and that your skills and knowlege be in the comments section without people 'knowing' that they need your aproval to continue to the next stage.
    deal.gif

    sure, we could have multiple polls .. but even the mere act of setting up the voting thread takes about 1/2 hour of my time .. so multiply that times 4 (3 polls plus the finals) and you have 2 hours a fortnight of my time. i simply don't have that luxury, and as of 9:55 a.m. tuesday october 19, baldy still isn't paying me to do this lol3.gif
  • SandySandy Registered Users Posts: 762 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    Andy, this is a great site and I agree there is an opportunity here to perfect ones photography skills. I always feel challenged when I see the entries and the fine work that is presented. I also noticed how much the enties have improved over time. Due to my participation on this site, some of the photos I took during a challenge came to the attention of a few local groups who may include them in their publications. I gave up participating for a while due to a new endeavor and dealing with the old dog, but now I have come back for more and I want to say thank you again.
    Sandy

    andy wrote:
    to participate, or not participate, that's everyone's choice. it's a shame if one doesn't participate imo, to miss out on the opportunity to learn and grow! the idea of the challenges, is to get focused on a theme for a fortnight ... and to concentrate on some photographic skills that you may learn during the two-week period. read the articles and links that i provide in the challenge setup, i work hard to find and provide some good material for everyone to hopefully learn something from.

    regarding the judging - and finalists - we are limited to max of 10 finalists, and we now have the previoius winner judging along with me. dunno how much more i can do on that. ne_nau.gif
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    More is better, competition is good
    FreeUps wrote:
    If the negative critique is too much to handle, then competetive photography is not the route to take - I.E. Dgrin photo challenges.. It shouldn't even be competetive, but to many of us it is.

    I do not understand how you can have a CHALLENGE, whose entire point is to adorn a winner, and not have it be competitive. This is not the CRITIQUE thread, its the CHALLENGE thread. Both types of threads have their place, of course. But a challenge thread not being competitive is simply not possible.

    I agree with your first statement that if one cannot handle negative comments about their photos then competitive photography is probably not an endeavor they will find much benefit in participating in.
    Being one of the newer members here at Dgrin, it makes me unhappy to hear that some older members wish I, along with others, weren't here. I've heard it multiple times, "Theres too many people now, its just not the same great community it used to be."

    I would not be one of those people. More is better.
    Sorry for the rant, I just feel like there is a lack of appreciation.

    And if that is so, you have every right to rant about it.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    ginger_55 wrote:
    I don't know where this is going, and I don't know what would work. But the phrase "be careful what you wish for" just came to mind.

    g

    I agree with that. This is a wonderful site. If we change too much, we could end up being just like all the others. The ones we passed over to join dGrin. :D
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    snapapple wrote:
    I agree with that. This is a wonderful site. If we change too much, we could end up being just like all the others. The ones we passed over to join dGrin. :D

    so, i'm trying. i decided to try and point out what i felt were really good examples of shots for the challenge, ch 22. i'll try and do the same going forward.
  • snapapplesnapapple Registered Users Posts: 2,093 Major grins
    edited October 19, 2004
    I just thought of something...
    I was not allowed to participate in this challenge because I was a guest judge. Oh boy, that was hard on me. I finally had the opportunity to get out of town and shoot some new stuff too. Why couldn't it have been any other week? So, I participated anyway. I kept the topic in mind and shot lots of pictures while in San Francisco. (They are in a San Francisco thread under Urban, Street and Architecture.)

    I was happy with my results in the night shot department and thought they fit the theme as, "Night Time." If I could have entered, I would have entered one of them. I will never know if they would have made the finals. Were they really on point? I've seen some great shots not make it because they were not really on point. Naturally, my judgment is skewed because they are mine. I'd be wondering now, why I didn't make the cut. **The point is, it doesn't matter!** I know they are good photographs. And, *way* good for me. Maybe not the best for Andy or someone else, but certainly great for me. I challenged myself and I am a winner for it.

    During the challenge, I spent a lot of time looking at all the individual critique threads. I made some comments where I thought I could be helpful, but kept a low profile because of my duty to be impartial. I want everyone to know I took my job seriously and spent a great deal of time on it. I made a sacrifice to not be able to enter. I can now appreciate what Andy does so much more - and feel for him when it seems he's not appreciated.

    If your shot didn't make the cut, it doesn't mean it's not good. Look carefully at your shot and then at the finalists. Try (it's hard) to be objective. Is your shot a well composed, well executed photograph? Is it clear, sharp, good focus, good light? Does it engage the viewer? Can the viewer tell the "theme" just by looking at it? Can you visualize it on a gallery wall? Do you really like it? If so, it's good. You shouldn't need anyone to tell you that.

    Frame your shot, hang it on your wall, show it off to friends, sell it. Make yourself a winner. If you fell short of your own expectations, try again. Keep shooting! With digital, it's free! Keep learning. Keep entering. Enter other contests in your community or on the net. The more you enter, the more chances you have for recognition. Enjoy yourself. Love what you are doing.

    Thank you for giving me this opportunity to participate in a challenge on another level. I wish you all the same opportunity in the future.
    "A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." - Francis Bacon
    Susan Appel Photography My Blog
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