Public Domain vs. Release Form

Action Shooter

Hey all new-guy on D-Grin...great site.

Can anyone tell me the rules of taking photos at a public sporting event without the athletes permission.....then posting them on my website to be purchased.
I make sure to announce myself before the game and hand out flyers explaining my services. So far so good, but if I get that 1 parent or 1 obnoxious adult athlete I might be screwed ?????

I'm am trying to avoid password protection and release forms.

Thanks,
Andy

Khaos

You can not legally sell any image of a person where the person is easily recognized that's not being used for editorial purposes (newspaper article, magazine article, etc) without a release form.

JimM

Khaos wrote:

You can not legally sell any image of a person where the person is easily recognized that's not being used for editorial purposes (newspaper article, magazine article, etc) without a release form.

That sure puts a HUGE damper on what all of the event photographers here are doing. I don't believe this to be the case.

Action Shooter

Still Confused ???
:help Thank you for your responses, however I am not sure I have a clear understanding.

cambler

JimM wrote:

That sure puts a HUGE damper on what all of the event photographers here are doing. I don't believe this to be the case.

You're right. It's not the case.

Talk to an attorney qualified in this area. It will be money extremely well-spent and will pay for itself. A decent attorney, charging between $150 and $200 per hour can give you a complete education in that hour.

Free advice on the Internet is worth exactly what you pay for it

Khaos

Read and decide.

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

Jeffro

Action Shooter wrote:

:help Thank you for your responses, however I am not sure I have a clear understanding.

I'll tell you one thing, you won't have to worry about selling anything as long as links, blogs, and forums is on....see below....



Some people will save your proof, and thier money, and pay no attention to the watermark.

And after looking at some of your shots, you may want to double check what AF sensor you are using. If you are relying on the camera to know what your subjcet is....not good. I noticed several shots where the focal point was missed, so i'm guessing you are letting the camera do the thinking.

I'm not a lawyer but I'd suggest not selling a photo of someone for commercial purposes w/out a release form. Shooting an event is okay, unless they don't allow cameras in...obviously.

Good luck!

Angelo

This is a difficult subject and always elicits complicated, and often incorrect, responses.

Don't be confused by the difference between selling a print and selling an image for commercial use.

(If you read from the site Khaos linked you see I'm correct)

If I shoot at a public event and eventually display those prints at a gallery or on a website and sell the "print" as a piece of my artwork you generally do not need a release. (generally - but releases are always good insurance)

Example:

Shoot lots of sports events. Put together a gallery presentation of "baseball" with many various shots of all sorts of related shots and players... Sell prints of your artwork...No problem!

Take any one of those same images and sell it to a third party for commercial use (eg: a sporting goods store for a magazine advertisment) and you have a problem!!!

Take a snap of someone sipping a cup of coffee at a bus stop, sell a print of it as your artwork; No problem!

Sell the same image to Starbucks for use in an ad... Big problem!!!

Now do you understand the difference between selling a print and selling an image for commercial use?

As for your thread title... "public domain"?
This is not about public domain, which indicates the lack of copyright. As the photographer you hold copyright on your work and it remains in effect for 70 years past your death.

greenpea

This is actually my first post, but this is a topic of some interest to me so I had to chime in.

You might find this article in wikipedia interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_photography#Legal_considerations

I believe Angelo is right. But one thing that should be added is that (I believe) some states have laws about taking photographs of minors without parental permission and then selling the prints. For example taking a picture at a little league game and then selling the print to the general public.

Angelo

greenpea wrote:

This is actually my first post, but this is a topic of some interest to me so I had to chime in.

You might find this article in wikipedia interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_photography#Legal_considerations

I believe Angelo is right. But one thing that should be added is that (I believe) some states have laws about taking photographs of minors without parental permission and then selling the prints. For example taking a picture at a little league game and then selling the print to the general public.

excellent find!

Catto

Action Shooter wrote:

I make sure to announce myself before the game and hand out flyers explaining my services.

Some tips from the trenches:
* Get the event organiser's permission first; it might not be the law, but it's polite and will help build relations there. They might not be all that thrilled about someone making a buck off the back of their organisation / work, so be prepared to offer a cut of print sales back to them in return for permission to be there. Doesn't always happen, but be ready for it - and be ready to increase your print prices to cover this. The return is that, in theory, they'll then be on your side if a parent does complain; and rather than kicking you out, might reassure them of your peaceful intentions before you even hear about it.

* Check national, state, and local bylaws (as others have noted); but also be sure to check what the laws are related to handing out flyers, as that may be a seperate issue. In New Zealand, for example, it's legal; but Wellington City has a bylaw preventing it. It's effectively littering - and it becomes your responsibility if your flyers are lying everywhere, even if you handed them to people and they drop them. This also goes back to having a good relationship with the event organisers, as this may affect their ability to use the venue, if they have to clean up after your flyers in order not to get prosecuted themselves...

* Does the venue have a policy on commercial / professional photography? Some do, and some don't; but again, it's better to find out in advance. They may want a fee, or a permit application, or both - even if it's a public facility, it'll probably be managed by the local council who need to find ways to pay someone to cut the grass. Best to find out in advance, again - there may be fines for not having a permit. Or, there may not!

* All the other things about running a business apply - do you need a local / state license of some kind? Do you need to collect & pay taxes (sales tax / GST / other) on the print sales? How do you account for the income personally, or as a business?

There's lots of other info out there (I haven't had a chance to follow those links yet), but make sure you do find out what's applicable and what's not in your area. And then remember, obeying the law is just covering the bare basics. Treating people as you'd like to be treated yourself goes a lot further...
R

p.s. and check out http://www.sportsshooter.com/ - that's a font of information if ever there was one.

THE TOUCH

Angelo wrote:

If I shoot at a public event and eventually display those prints at a gallery or on a website and sell the "print" as a piece of my artwork you generally do not need a release. (generally - but releases are always good insurance)

Angelo - thanks for this info. That makes me feel much better! This is always a topic that I worry about in my head while shooting.