AdobeRGB - HELP!!!

Angelo

I'm very confused by a photoshop issue and would appreciate any help you can give.

My camera (D70) is set to AdobeRGB, yet when I open images (jpg's) in PS (photoshop.cs (8.0)) I get the following warning message pop-up:

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Embedded Profile Mismatch
The document "DSC_.....JPG" (of course, image number is displayed) has an embedded color profile that does not match the current RGB working space. The document's colors will be converted to the working space.
Embedded: sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Working: Adobe RGB (1998)

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The camera is set to RGB as I said above so this is really confusing. I also can not find any way to change the color profile in the PS software.

saurora

Angelo, for photoshop I believe its Edit>Color Settings or SHIFT+CTRL+K.

DavidTO

According to that message, your jpegs are srgb, not argb. Are you shooting RAW and converting to jpeg? Doesn't sound like it, but if you were, it could explain how your camera is set to argb and your jpegs end up srgb. The only other explanation that I can think of is operator error, which is what I believe is going on. If your camera was properly set to argb, then you wouldn't be getting that message from PS.

BTW, I am not a proponent of argb, unless you're a pro who knows what he is doing and why. If not, stick with srgb, IMO.

Angelo

I'm shooting RAW+jpg and it's the Jpg thumbnail that's set as an argb in camera but PS doesn't seem to recognize it.

Angelo

DavidTO wrote:

According to that message, your jpegs are srgb, not argb. Are you shooting RAW and converting to jpeg? Doesn't sound like it, but if you were, it could explain how your camera is set to argb and your jpegs end up srgb. The only other explanation that I can think of is operator error, which is what I believe is going on. If your camera was properly set to argb, then you wouldn't be getting that message from PS.

BTW, I am not a proponent of argb, unless you're a pro who knows what he is doing and why. If not, stick with srgb, IMO.

I think I was using srgb originally and can't remember why I changed it. I have 2 srgb settings. which do you use?

DavidTO

Angelo wrote:

I think I was using srgb originally and can't remember why I changed it. I have 2 srgb settings. which do you use?

the one with all the numbers.

Angelo

I've set and re-set this camera a dozen times..... dang this is frustrating.

I'll set it back to sRGB and try to match that in PS as per Saurora's tip.

DavidTO

Angelo wrote:

I've set and re-set this camera a dozen times..... dang this is frustrating.

I'll set it back to sRGB and try to match that in PS as per Saurora's tip.

Why are you shooting aRGB? If you're not sure, don't.

Andy

DavidTO wrote:

Why are you shooting aRGB? If you're not sure, don't.

Exactly.

System

my cameras are set on argb-

my photoshop is set on argb-

my printer is set for documents for argb (printing is managed by ps, not the printer)-


however, my priority at this time is to have my setup printer ready, not web ready; although, I'm usually not displeased with the colors I upload to the web (maybe everybody else is)-

george

System

photo in argb-

System

photo converted to profile srgb and saved for web-

System

better late than never, huh?!?

Angelo

I changed my camera settings to argb recently because everything I've read informed me that setting gives the greatest range of colors and is recommended for a) photos that will undergo a great deal of PS manipulation and/or b) images to be used and printed primarily in CMYK.

Since most of what I shoot winds up printed not as photos but as parts of illustrator graphic files in CMYK, I thought it best to do this.

DavidTO

This has been discussed a lot. I don't have time to search, but you'll find them, if you look.

Also, there's a page in the smugmug help section about it, where Baldy explains it pretty well.

Angelo

DavidTO wrote:

This has been discussed a lot. I don't have time to search, but you'll find them, if you look.

Also, there's a page in the smugmug help section about it, where Baldy explains it pretty well.

Thanks David - I will find all the pertinent threads and re-educate myself on the issue. I appreciate all the input.

mercphoto

Angelo wrote:

I changed my camera settings to argb recently because everything I've read informed me that setting gives the greatest range of colors and is recommended for a) photos that will undergo a great deal of PS manipulation and/or b) images to be used and printed primarily in CMYK.

Since most of what I shoot winds up printed not as photos but as parts of illustrator graphic files in CMYK, I thought it best to do this.

I've found that "experts" who should know better, don't. Therefore there is a lot of misinformation flying around about color spaces from people who otherwise know an awful lot about photography. The important thing to remember about color spaces is that we are talking about discrete mathematics, not continuous mathematics. This is of prime importance.

First thing to remember is that a color space does not determine how MANY colors you have, it only defines the range of colors. What determines how many colors you have is the bit depth. In other words, sRGB in 8-bit mode has the exact same number of colors as aRGB in 8-bit mode as ProPhoto RGB in 8-bit mode. They all have 24-bits of color information. What is different is what physical color any given 24-bit number corresponds to. This is where the range comes into play. If you look at a diagram of a color space, the sRGB space has a smaller area, with aRGB being a bigger area with some more vibrant colors, and ProPhoto having a larger space still. They all have the same number of colors, but not necessarily the same colors.

This comes at cost. While there are some colors that sRGB cannot capture, the spacing between colors is very small. Consider a ladder with 16 million steps. The sRGB ladder is not as tall as the aRGB ladder. Each ladder has the same number of steps, therefore each individual step on the aRGB ladder is larger. The transitions from one color to the next is greater.

Probably the best thing to do is to start in the same color space that you will need in the end. Perhaps the next best thing is to ask yourself "is my image ever out-of-gamut in sRGB"?

I've heard experts say "if you use sRGB you are throwing away colors!" and that is nonesense. It is equally valid to say if you use aRGB you are throwing away colors, because there are tonal transitions that sRGB can capture that aRGB cannot, so it goes both ways. If your photos do not need the width of color space that aRGB affords, then using aRGB is of no value to you whatsoever.

Use the smallest color space you need, but no smaller. Using a larger color space than you need has little added value and might be a bit detrimental.

pathfinder

Excellent answer Merc, I want to thank you for this great post - this really succintly explains why sRGB is NOT inferior to aRGB for most images, UNLESS the image needs the larger gamut of aRGB - and that comes at the price of larger steps between hues than in the smaller gamut of sRGB.

Both sRGB and aRGB are generally vastly larger than the gamut of the printed page anyway, except in some extreme yellows and light blues.

DavidTO

pathfinder wrote:

Excellent answer Merc, I want to thank you for this great post

Angelo

Merc - very good post. thanks for taking time to respond.

Going back to the basis of my original post - I can't understand why PS doesn't recognise the camera setting.

I'm going to try setting the camera and the software to Srgb to see if they sync.

tmlphoto

gefillmore wrote:

better late than never, huh?!?

The sRGB image looks much more saturated than the aRGB on my screen. I think that is the usually situation, loss of saturation when aRGB is displayed or printed in sRGB. Myself, I just stay in sRGB. I convert from RAW, so I guess if I ever need to I could just reconvert from RAW to aRGB, but so far I haven't had the need.

System

tmlphoto wrote:

The sRGB image looks much more saturated than the aRGB on my screen. I think that is the usually situation, loss of saturation when aRGB is displayed or printed in sRGB. Myself, I just stay in sRGB. I convert from RAW, so I guess if I ever need to I could just reconvert from RAW to aRGB, but so far I haven't had the need.

thomas-

I went to 'convert in profile' and changed my argb tif to srgb tif then saved to web and uploaded-

I was surprised at the difference, mostly the saturation-

but, being very happy with what comes out of my printer, and not willing to fix what ain't broke, I will stay at argb and convert the pic to srgb for the web-

the more I know, the more I don't know-

george

Ric Grupe

Angelo wrote:

Merc - very good post. thanks for taking time to respond.

Going back to the basis of my original post - I can't understand why PS doesn't recognise the camera setting.

I'm going to try setting the camera and the software to Srgb to see if they sync.

I have no such issue with Corel PP........Angelo!!!

I shoot argb.....work in argb.....save to srgb for web....and the printer driver has no problem converting. All using the handy color management utility in CPP.

mercphoto

Angelo wrote:

Merc - very good post. thanks for taking time to respond.

Going back to the basis of my original post - I can't understand why PS doesn't recognise the camera setting.

I'm going to try setting the camera and the software to Srgb to see if they sync.

How do you get the images onto the computer? On the Mac, for instance, one program you can use is Image Capture. And, for some odd reason, one option is to embed a color sync profile. And if you choose that option and embed the wrong profile, well.... So I'm wondering if something is happening as you ingest images.