Weddings

gubbs · November 1, 2004

A good friend has asked me to shoot her wedding in August (the whole package!!). I'm touched by her confidence in me, but I'm also slightly terrified! I know what a skilled job this is and I've no experience at all.
I want to do it but not if I can't do a good job. Before I say yes (or no), can anyone offer advice (even if it's "don't do it") with regard to the organisation, tecnique and equipment.

Many Thanks

Andy · November 1, 2004

don't do it. or ...

gubbs wrote:

A good friend has asked me to shoot her wedding in August (the whole package!!). I'm touched by her confidence in me, but I'm also slightly terrified! I know what a skilled job this is and I've no experience at all.
I want to do it but not if I can't do a good job. Before I say yes (or no), can anyone offer advice (even if it's "don't do it") with regard to the organisation, tecnique and equipment.

Many Thanks

unless wedding photography were my thing, i wouldn't do it ... way too much pressure, and the thought of damaging a friendship looms large...

now - can you apprentice on a couple of weddings between now and then? yeah. and read some good books? and pore thru a few dozen quality wedding galleries? yup. and you'll need some new gear. like a 20d, a second body (backup).. a flash ... a bit of good glass ... perhaps some additional lights for the formals. .. an assistant .. etc etc.

check out shay's wedding gallery and ulysses' too

and, you've got to develop the eye for shots like these

talk about pressure! well, if anyone can do it, you can. you've got the talent to pick it up. so, if it's something you see yourself doing more than just a lark, then by all means, dive in, make a plan, and gain the skills you need.

good luck

rutt · November 1, 2004

gubbs wrote:

A good friend has asked me to shoot her wedding in August (the whole package!!). I'm touched by her confidence in me, but I'm also slightly terrified! I know what a skilled job this is and I've no experience at all.
I want to do it but not if I can't do a good job. Before I say yes (or no), can anyone offer advice (even if it's "don't do it") with regard to the organisation, tecnique and equipment.

Many Thanks

Unlike Andy, I'm not a wedding photographer, but I was an accidental wedding photographer once. I posted the story on dgrin and also in the wedding section of FM. I got some good feedback about it on FM.

Looking back on it, I think the most important thing I learned is that you have to use foresight and planning. Go the the rehearsal! Think ahead of time about what is going to work. Be bossy so you can get the shots you planned on.

Here is the FM thread about my wedding photography experiences.

ginger_55 · November 1, 2004

rutt wrote:

\

Unlike Andy, I'm not a wedding photographer, but I was an accidental wedding photographer once. I posted the story on dgrin and also in the wedding section of FM. I got some good feedback about it on FM.

Looking back on it, I think the most important thing I learned is that you have to use foresight and planning. Go the the rehearsal! Think ahead of time about what is going to work. Be bossy so you can get the shots you planned on.

Here is the FM thread about my wedding photography experiences.

"Here" is not working for me. I can't get to the thread.

hutchman · November 1, 2004

I was asked to take candid shots at the reception for a friend's daughter last August. I agreed because those are the kind of pictures I like to take, candid snapshots. They were going to be married in Hawaii after the reception, so there would be no formal wedding shots taken.

Well, lo and behold, they asked if I would take some formal pictures of relatives prior to the reception. I could not refuse, but was very nervous of the results. I am not even a "photographer", let alone a "wedding photographer."

The day of the reception, we met at a park close to the reception location and took the formal pictures. I was very disappointed with the results of the these pictures. The reception pictures turned out OK. Here is a link to the pictures:

http://photohutch.smugmug.com/gallery/186062

To my surprise, they really liked even the formal pictures.

The kids went to Hawaii for their honeymoon and had a proffessional photographer take pictures there. Stephanie told me the pictures taken on the honeymoon were terrible and they wished that I had been there to take those pictures. She said mine were 10 times better than those taken on their trip.

I decided:

1. The person taking pictures in Hawaii must really have done a terrible job, because I still feel the formal pictures I took sucked!

2. I think we are the worst critic of our own work. I have yet to take pictures for someone and have them tell me they suck. They have all been extemely happy with the results.

My $0.02 worth.

Hutch

Andy · November 1, 2004

rutt, i'm not a wedding photog

i don't do weddings, but the folks i linked in my msg do

rutt wrote:

\

Unlike Andy, I'm not a wedding photographer, but I was an accidental wedding photographer once. I posted the story on dgrin and also in the wedding section of FM. I got some good feedback about it on FM.

Looking back on it, I think the most important thing I learned is that you have to use foresight and planning. Go the the rehearsal! Think ahead of time about what is going to work. Be bossy so you can get the shots you planned on.

Here is the FM thread about my wedding photography experiences.

ginger_55 · November 1, 2004

hutchman wrote:

I was asked to take candid shots at the reception for a friend's daughter last August. I agreed because those are the kind of pictures I like to take, candid snapshots. They were going to be married in Hawaii after the reception, so there would be no formal wedding shots taken.

Well, lo and behold, they asked if I would take some formal pictures of relatives prior to the reception. I could not refuse, but was very nervous of the results. I am not even a "photographer", let alone a "wedding photographer."

The day of the reception, we met at a park close to the reception location and took the formal pictures. I was very disappointed with the results of the these pictures. The reception pictures turned out OK. Here is a link to the pictures:

http://photohutch.smugmug.com/gallery/186062

To my surprise, they really liked even the formal pictures.

Hutch

Hutch, I just went to your site and looked at the front page. Your photos did not suck, you worked with what you had and did a great job, IMO. I did not remember to look at the lighting, but it must have been fine.

The couple to be married, they were great hams, you caught them in some very good shots. Perhaps the photog in Hawaii was not as open to improv.

Also the whole bunch, just looking at the page with the thumbnails, I was struck by the varied colors in the clothes. Looked like autumn leaves, to me, from a distance. But looking at each photo, I saw the people, they were done well.

What sucked??????

My husband has been a wedding photog, he shot my daughter's wedding. In color. I shot it in blk and white. I didn't want to, then decided at the last minute. We were all very happy with my results. I was using film, the place my husband worked did the proofs for free, my film was free. Then I made up a small album of 4 X 6's of candids from the reception. I took no photos at the actual wedding. My husband is quite good at that type of thing, two people can't do the shot coming down the aisle, that shot gives me goose bumps just thinking about it. One chance only. Bill nails it.

What Bill, my husband, did not nail was the formal bridals in a natural setting with gorgeous spring colors. He screwed up on some camera setting. It is just possible, if I remember right, that he was shooting without film. HEHE, has that ever happened before?

His studio shots were very good, we gave Sara what she wanted, a huge bridal portrait which hung on her wall for years. I have not seen it lately.

What still hangs, and will always hang, I am sure, is a shot I took, cannot send you, I have no copies, but it is a black and white I took at the park where Bill had no film. I had at least a 16 X 20, or larger made by a lab, had them put a light sepia tone on it, had it matted and framed. I gave it to her.
(My theory in giving these things is that if you can afford it, have the matting and framing done. Otherwise the photo gets lost, as did my copy.)

The photo I took was a "candid" of her walking under huge live oaks with spanish moss dripping downward, she is holding her wedding gown up as she walked thru the park. It hangs over her bed, and I would match it with any wedding shot anywhere. However, I was shooting with no pressure. Just for fun. My husband had all the pressure, so he forgot to put film in his camera.

I shot another shot, which I also had matted and framed, of her actually posed, with her veil kind of blowing a bit in the breeze as Bill was taking her "picture". That photo is not as good, IMO, but it is also still hanging. It is a full length shot in blk and white. It may not show the colors, but it implies them. It is OK.

Also, I shot while Bill was shooting in the studio, I used the negatives, had them all put on one 8 X 10 , or a bit bigger, and showed her all the way through the shoot, including when she only had her shorts and veil on. That is hanging in her downstair bathroom. I think it makes a great idea, the lab girl did it a bit too dark, and I didn't want to insult her by asking her to do it over, darn, but it is great for the memories.

Basically, I acted as Bill's assistant, on my terms, maybe not assistant, more like I shot along with, he was the main photog, and I was just shooting blk and white for fun. Sara paid some of the costs, but basically this was our present to her.

That is a problem, too. How does one set prices for friends. I think, and I know August is long past, but I would agree to shoot a wedding, but only in conjunction with another wedding photographer, hopefully more experienced. Unless they were broke, I were doing it for free, etc. Very few circumstance where I would do it as the main person. Bill has shot many weddings, and he didn't have any film in the camera for the part that Sara wanted the most: the bridal photo in a spring time Charleston setting. She was nice about it, but she was also "sick". I am sure she is over it by now, they have been married 8 plus years.

My son was married a year or so ago. His best friend, who does shoot weddings, he was the photographer, the whole thing was a gift to my son. They did have another photographer just at the ceremony. I took some photos at the reception, however, they never said anything about my photos, never wanted any, etc. Neither did I have the money to frame, etc. the photos for them. And I am not as close to him as I am to Sara, I missed the bridal thing, just so many factors........ I got photos I love of my grandchildren.

Just think about my husband with no film in his camera explaining to Sara how that could have happened. Actually, I had nailed the outdoor photo, his were not needed, except for a year or so. Then he nailed the shot coming down the aisle. I wouldn't touch it.

Just some thoughts and some memories.

ginger

rutt · November 1, 2004

andy wrote:

i don't do weddings, but the folks i linked in my msg do

Sorry, I misread your message. It said "unless wedding photography were my thing." I misread it as "wedding phtograhy is my thing."

Yeah, no doubit about it. Wedding photography is a thing unto itself. See the wedding photographer forum on FM.

rutt · November 1, 2004

ginger_55 wrote:

"Here" is not working for me. I can't get to the thread.

Sorry, bad link. This one should work:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/105753/0#858840

Nir · November 1, 2004

gubbs wrote:

A good friend has asked me to shoot her wedding in August (the whole package!!). I'm touched by her confidence in me, but I'm also slightly terrified! I know what a skilled job this is and I've no experience at all.
I want to do it but not if I can't do a good job. Before I say yes (or no), can anyone offer advice (even if it's "don't do it") with regard to the organisation, tecnique and equipment.

Many Thanks

The wedding is in August?! You have plenty of time to hide ...

Shay Stephens · November 2, 2004

gubbs wrote:

A good friend has asked me to shoot her wedding in August (the whole package!!). I'm touched by her confidence in me, but I'm also slightly terrified! I know what a skilled job this is and I've no experience at all.
I want to do it but not if I can't do a good job. Before I say yes (or no), can anyone offer advice (even if it's "don't do it") with regard to the organisation, tecnique and equipment.

Many Thanks

What is most important here above equipment or technique is communication. For this to have the slightest chance of working, you need to establish good communication with the bride and groom. Find out what it is they are looking for. Show them samples of your style of photography, what do they like, what do they not like. Once you establish what their tastes are, then you can alter your style to better match that. Show them some samples or have them show you samples of wedding photos that they like from magazines and such. This will better establish what they are looking for. You can then decide if you are compatible with their needs. If you are, then you can proceed to the next step.

What is it they want as far as deliverables. Do they want prints, albums, CD, DVD, etc? Determine what they need and how you can go about fulfilling the order. Once you have done the leg work of contacting the vendors you will need, you will have an idea of how much it will cost for the materials. The other variable to figure out is how long it will take you to make everything. Labor time is often not considered fully, but it takes a long time to design and assemble an album, slideshow, prints, etc. So do your homework there to make sure you can cover the costs and not wind up paying out of your pocket for any of this.

If at this point you feel confident to take on the job, now you come to determining what the conditions will be like that you will be shooting in. More leg work. Visit the ceremony and reception locations. Talk to the management to find out what the lighting levels are like, what goes on where, and take some sample shots in as similar a lighting as you can get to the wedding. This will help you to identify any weaknesses in your equipment. Gear up as needed to fill any catastrophic deficiencies that will prevent you from getting shots in certain venues or situations.

As far as technique, that of course will come with the experience of practicing shooting under low light action shots, bright sunlight, and mixed sun and shadow environments. Practice practice practice. That is the only way to guarantee success. There are no magic wedding modes on cameras because weddings take very shape known to man. But if you can take care of the first part of this, communication, you are more than 50% the way to success.

wxwax · November 2, 2004

Shay, just beautiful work in your portfolio.

Andy, will you please stop linking to threads about the 35L 1.4 ?

I was perfectly content, happy even, wandering the streets with my 35 f2.0 this weekend, until you piped up.

Andy · November 2, 2004

wxwax wrote:

Shay, just beautiful work in your portfolio.

Andy, will you please stop linking to threads about the 35L 1.4 ? I was perfectly content, happy even, wandering the streets with my 35 f2.0 this weekend, until you piped up.

that pic of those groomsmen jumping in the air is *mint* innit?

ginger_55 · November 2, 2004

Yes, those groomsmen could be on Broadway. When you said we, or wedding photogs, need to be open to shots like these, and then showed the "jumping groomsmen". My thought was YEAH, RIGHT, and have I not been looking for that shot, and some others, all my life.

So, BRING IT ON!

All I have is the kit lens, I am running into serious distortion I never noticed before. I had to shoot the baptism with 28-135 instead. The candle was turning into a contortionist. Do these lenses get worse?

That candle has always been an important feature of the shots, I think I would have noticed such significant curvature in the past. Even if I was less knowledgeable then, I was not blind.

Yup, I buy that expensive glass lens, and I get jumping, in unison, groomsmen? And they will repeat as often as needed??? (Some of us, me, need that as a condition)

ginger

Andy · November 2, 2004

the power of inspiration
this is one of the reasons why i peruse many different photographer's galleries. the internet has made such a drastic change in how much good stuff we can see, and learn from

that jumping groomsmen shot, along with many of shay's, are shots that i'll remember for a long time.

ginger_55 wrote:

Yes, those groomsmen could be on Broadway. When you said we, or wedding photogs, need to be open to shots like these, and then showed the "jumping groomsmen". My thought was YEAH, RIGHT, and have I not been looking for that shot, and some others, all my life.

So, BRING IT ON!

All I have is the kit lens, I am running into serious distortion I never noticed before. I had to shoot the baptism with 28-135 instead. The candle was turning into a contortionist. Do these lenses get worse?

That candle has always been an important feature of the shots, I think I would have noticed such significant curvature in the past. Even if I was less knowledgeable then, I was not blind.

Yup, I buy that expensive glass lens, and I get jumping, in unison, groomsmen? And they will repeat as often as needed??? (Some of us, me, need that as a condition)

ginger

yvonne · November 8, 2004

I didn't have time to read all the comments, so I may be repeating what's been said before.

You already know the bride and groom, which is helpful. I suggest you visit the venue(s) with them (or at least one of them) so that you can discuss their expectations with them onsite. Most venues throw up some kind of lighting issues and not all the couples' ideas are necessarily do-able. If they have an idea of what can be done where, that really helps.

Talk to the vicar. They often have VERY specific ideas about which bits of the ceremony you are allowed to photograph. I've been at weddings where the vicar allowed NO photos from walking throught the door to signing the registry, and even then it wasn't the real thing, but a posed shot afterwards, signing a blank registry. Nothing you can do, it's their show!

Get to know the best man! The groomsmen are your slaves for the day. Use them! Their job is to get people to where they need to be. If you can get them to get the people together for your group shots you save a lot of pfaffing around. It also saves time, as people get very bored posing for or waiting to pose for group pictures.

The day will go very quickly. Make a plan beforehand of what shots you want to get and get in position to be able to shoot them. No point realising you wanted to shoot the bride getting out of the car if you're following the bridal convoy to church.

Get the detail!!! Very important this and one many many high street photographers (especially men - sorry guys) don't look out for. The shoes, the dress, the hairpiece, the rings, the flowers, the table decorations, the place settings - the couple have spent a YEAR of their lives planning each minutae detail, and won't really appreciate it on the day because there's so much going on. They love looking back and goign "ohhhh, didn't the tables look lovely" etc.

Think about contingencies for bad weather. If you're planning to shoot outside, what will you do if it's p*shing down with rain? Be prepared.

And enjoy it!!! If you hate weddings and don't like photographing people, say no.

I love weddings - I love the drama, the emotions, the whole spectacle. Yes, you'll be busy taking all your planned shots but also stop and take some time out whenever you can. Remove the camera from your face and look around you. What is actually happening? There are so many lovely moments to be captured at a wedding if you just take the time to LOOK.

And always take a spare camera!!! If you don't own a spare, borrow one and make sure you know how to use it. The very worst thing that can happen to you on the day is that the camera packs up - and it CAN and DOES happen!

Good luck, and hope you'll show us the result!

Yvonne

landrum · November 8, 2004

Wow, there is some great advice here. I have shot a couple weddings for friends in the past. I never really wanted to do weddings then, but now I'm trying to start doing them. I was wondering if anyone has advice on how to get wedding work when you don't have much of a wedding portfolio to show. It's really a catch 22 to get started...isn't it?

Thanks in advance!
Laurie

GREAPER · November 8, 2004

work cheap. lol

gubbs · September 10, 2005

After all the excellent advice I got here I thought I owed it to you all to let you know how I got on.

My first priority was to just look as many wedding shots as possible for ideas and inspiration. So I trawled the web (Shay you do some lovely stuff

, really stands out), bought various wedding magazines and a couple of specific wedding photography books. I particularly liked "Capture the Moment" by Stephen Swain, beautiful reportage style pictures and some sound advice.

Next, a good friend of my Sister in Law is a wedding photographer. She very kindly let me come along to a couple of weddings with her. She had lots of excellent tips and I was really impressed by her eye for detail, (adjusting dresses, necklaces, bouquets, ties, hands etc etc etc) and even more so by the rapport she builds whilst organizing the b&g and guests.

As far as equipment goes, I had already bought a 20D on my USA trip, so just held onto my 10D to use as a backup. I had a Canon 50mm 1.4, Tamron 28-70 2.8, Tamron 17-35, and a Canon 70-200 2.8. After shooting at the couple of warm up weddings I felt I needed some more fast glass so I bought a 2nd hand 85 1.8 from "andybay"

Got myself a 580ex flash and also borrowed a 420 ex from andy. Who even took the trouble of personally delivering it ( along with a laundry bag full of other bits from B&H) to London for me. Thanks andy

The ceremony and reception were to be held at a Hotel so I arranged to go up and meet the b&g at the location, I discussed the type of shots they wanted and got them to list any specifics required. I think I ended up with a list of about 14 formal style shots. From this list I did myself a plan detailing locations & shots I wanted to make sure that I covered.

I stayed at the hotel the night before. I couldn't sleep too well, (nerves

) so double checked and cleaned all my gear, then used the early morning to try and get a few shots of the preparations....

Then off to the brides parents house where the bride was getting ready

MISTAKE!! Should have used fill flash here, the sun was high in the sky, so the eyes are in too much shadow

I really struggled with poses too, especially with the bride on her own!

Mrs G, who wasn't available to be my assistant

First Kiss, Saved by RAW

Her Mum's reaction

Sorry, too many shots, I get carried away

I have the greatest respect for you guys who do this for a living, IT'S TOUGH and stressful, but I did enjoy it. Feel free to have a look at the full set here
and also feel free to whip me good:whip, I made a few mistakes and could really do with some help and practise with posing people

Thanks again for all the help and advice!!!!

Shay Stephens · September 10, 2005

Bravo Man! Those are fantastic! You did really really good!

John Mueller · September 10, 2005

What Shay said

The VW shot is the one I like best

Andy · September 10, 2005

wedding photography
very very good work, gubbsie! i'm impressed.
my faves: the b&g looking back from the cool car - awesome! the mum's reaction - how emotional is that shot? mrs g

of course you knew i'd say that, didn't you?

fine, fine work. i betcha the b&g, and the parents, were thrilled with your work. you should be proud, and others should take note of this thread, and your fine examples.

gus · September 10, 2005

You did very well gubbs

I will only do it as a 2nd photog behind a pro. Im on such a steep learning curve here.

gluwater · September 10, 2005

You did a great job Gubbs. I'm taking the reception shots at a friends wedding next week and can only hope I get a couple that turn out as good as yours. You mentioned in your equipment that you had a 580 and 420 flash. Did you use them much, from the shots you posted it looked like they were all with natural light. And if you did use the flash, was it on camera or with some kind of flash mount? Also, would you suggest using a diffuser?

Thanks and good work.

gubbs · September 12, 2005

I've spent hours & hours over the last couple of weeks working through the 500 odd shots. After a while it becomes difficult to remain objective about them all, I just see the flaws. So I really apreciate the re-assuring comments, Thanks....

and thanks again for all the advice

pathfinder · September 12, 2005

gubbs wrote:

I've spent hours & hours over the last couple of weeks working through the 500 odd shots. After a while it becomes difficult to remain objective about them all, I just see the flaws. So I really apreciate the re-assuring comments, Thanks.... and thanks again for all the advice

Very nice set, gubbs. I like the detail shots also. I just spent a whole week processing what I shot last weekend -so I feel your pain

Did you ever feel you wanted more light from your flashes? I kinda felt that I could have used more light at times shooting against a strongly backlit golf course. I used a 580 and a 550 on lighting stands at about 45 degrees with a 2:1 ratio or so of fill on many shots. For on camera flash I used Gary Fong's Lightshpere II.

mercphoto · September 12, 2005

gubbs wrote:

I've spent hours & hours over the last couple of weeks working through the 500 odd shots. After a while it becomes difficult to remain objective about them all, I just see the flaws. So I really apreciate the re-assuring comments, Thanks.... and thanks again for all the advice

One thing I've found hard to learn is that the average person will not see the flaws. I had the opportunity to take a photo of the Iron Rock Raceway track from the observation deck of the ABIA air traffic control tower. I have no idea what strings they pulled to let me do that. But I was not sure what lens to use, etc. I ended up using my 28-135 with IS enabled and got some shots. I took the best one and then (literally) threw half the picture away (I wanted a 3:1 panaromic, not a 3:2 photo). I then up-rezzed 2X during RAW conversion, did some levels and curves, etc. etc. Then they wanted a 12" x 36" print. Geez, I started with 8 million pixels and threw half away. Can I make a print that big? Coupled with the soft appearance of the 28-135 for what amounted to a big landscape. I had to sharpen it like crazy. In the final print you can see halos and artifacts. Well, I could see them. But they can't.

Lesson learned: the customer is often concerned about aspects of the photo you deem unimportant, and vice-versa. I'm slowly learning to pay less attention to what pro photographers deem important, and pay more attention to what average Joe deems important.

So, Gubbs, you're worrying too much about the flaws. Only you see them.

Weddings

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