Ordering print sizes

mercphoto · November 1, 2004

Is there any way we could make the shopping cart more obvious that they can order standard prints and speciality prints, and the difference between them? I'm not sure it is obvious to people that if they want something larger than 8x10 that they need to order a "speciality print". The default order is a 4x6, and if you pull down that menu you can only get to 8x10. I had a customer this morning not realize he could order a larger print by simply looking a little to the left and choosing "speciality prints".

Baldy · November 1, 2004

mercphoto wrote:

Is there any way we could make the shopping cart more obvious that they can order standard prints and speciality prints, and the difference between them? I'm not sure it is obvious to people that if they want something larger than 8x10 that they need to order a "speciality print". The default order is a 4x6, and if you pull down that menu you can only get to 8x10. I had a customer this morning not realize he could order a larger print by simply looking a little to the left and choosing "speciality prints".

Andy mentioned this the other day too. Good question. There were problems with the old way of having everything in one list, so the question is what would work better?

Thanks,
Baldy

ginger_55 · November 1, 2004

Yes, I did not realize that thing that the person who asked the question, I had no idea you could access other prices.

So, I couldn't have, and I was going to order some odd sized small prints for Christmas. I would not have known how, and I have a pro acct.

Also, I still think it is very awkward not to be able to see the prices, BEFORE accessing the cart. I would not buy much anywhere that way.

ginger

I love smugmug and dgrin, appreciate everything, better than sliced bread, etc!

mercphoto · November 1, 2004

Ordering print sizes

Baldy wrote:

Andy mentioned this the other day too. Good question. There were problems with the old way of having everything in one list, so the question is what would work better?

I can understand wanting to separate merchandise from prints. Its possible that having three separate lists for prints (standard, digital and speciality) is taking a good thing too far. Hard to say.

I would throw out as possibilities two options:

1) all print sizes in one list, all merchandise in a second list.

2) four lists as we have now, but with some obvious clue that prints are divided into multiple bins based on size. Such as text up above "standard prints are to 8x10, specialized prints are 8x12 and up"... etc.

Ok, a third option to help make print lists smaller:

3) Have the list by size only, with a second list for print type (luster, gloss, matte). Makes choosing a print size separate from choosing the paper type. I understand that has its own problem since luster is more pricey than the other papers, but if that solution can be found...

Option 2 is the easiest to implement, by far, and might actually do the job.

Anyone else with a better idea?

mercphoto · November 1, 2004

Positive feedback from a customer
I got some feedback from a customer of mine today, I wanted to share it with smugmug staff in particular:

I thought the shopping cart was easy to use. The cropping also was very easy to use and see the results. The only complaint I have is that it was hard to tell what the various color processes did to the picture and the different types of paper. I don't know how you could fix that as everybody has a different monitor. I saw this particular photo at the ADV motocross track so I have seen it printed out.

I know the forum usually talks about PROBLEMS people have, and I wanted to bring something positive to the forum as well.

Baldy · November 1, 2004

Thanks! You know, it appears that the cropping issue is very nearly 100% solved. It's a huge relief because it's always been so big a problem for every service that I know of.

But color... We're racking our brains over that. We had a thought last night about an online color guide -- a small row of thumbs where the skin is in range and will print well and a small row where it's out and won't.

I did a very depressing experiment last month. I took my wife's Canon G3 and took a photo of her with the built-in flash, set to auto. She has nice skin. But like most digital cameras using the built-in flash, it produced a shot that was far out of the range of acceptable caucasian skin (too red).

And I sent it to Ofoto, Shutterfly, EZ Prints, Fujifilm.net, Costco, etc.

People I showed it to (a lot, including at a convention) said the labs made it too red. Why couldn't they get it right? It simply didn't seem like a possibility to them that the camera produced too red an image.

Almost everyone preferred the tanning salon/EZ Prints version, but few would have chosen it because it sounds fake. They would have chosen true color, which they wouldn't like.

And it's true, many people cannot tell on their monitor that it's too red without seeing comparison chips that tell them what's acceptable and what's not. But on a print they can tell instantly.

We (and I'm not just talking smugmug here) have lots of work to do on this problem. But until Canon and Nikon figure out why it's happening and everyone gets cameras that don't make it happen, we at smugmug have to figure something out.

dugmar · November 1, 2004

mercphoto wrote:

Is there any way we could make the shopping cart more obvious that they can order standard prints and speciality prints, and the difference between them? I'm not sure it is obvious to people that if they want something larger than 8x10 that they need to order a "speciality print". The default order is a 4x6, and if you pull down that menu you can only get to 8x10. I had a customer this morning not realize he could order a larger print by simply looking a little to the left and choosing "speciality prints".

Agreed, I have the same exact concerns.

Doug

onethumb · November 1, 2004

dugmar wrote:

Agreed, I have the same exact concerns.

Doug

Personally, I sorta consider 11x14 and 16x20 to be "standard" sizes anyway (maybe even 20x30?). But something like 8x12 or 10x10 don't seem "standard" in any way and would probably confuse people. Maybe we should broaden the "standard" size dropdown slightly, but still keep the very unique sizes in "specialty"? Maybe with a note at the bottom of the drop-down to look in specialty?

I think it would shock almost everyone here if we could somehow explain just how easy it is to confuse many of the people buying our prints. It has turned out to be a very difficult process, and one I'm not entirely sure we'll ever completely win. Simply collapsing "standard" and "specialty" into a single drop-down would make the problem worse, rather than better, I'm afraid.

Keep the suggestions coming, we're listening.

Don

mercphoto · November 1, 2004

Standard prints

onethumb wrote:

Personally, I sorta consider 11x14 and 16x20 to be "standard" sizes anyway (maybe even 20x30?). But something like 8x12 or 10x10 don't seem "standard" in any way and would probably confuse people. Maybe we should broaden the "standard" size dropdown slightly, but still keep the very unique sizes in "specialty"? Maybe with a note at the bottom of the drop-down to look in specialty?

That will work! Standard prints would be 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, maybe even 20x30 (I would like that). Everything else is speciality. Anything you can easily find a frame for is standard.

And the note to look elsewhere is a good idea as well. Not just for other print sizes, but for gift items too!

And I can just imagine how hard it is for you guys to explain to customers about print sizes. I find it hard too.

onethumb · November 8, 2004

mercphoto wrote:

That will work! Standard prints would be 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, maybe even 20x30 (I would like that). Everything else is speciality. Anything you can easily find a frame for is standard.

And the note to look elsewhere is a good idea as well. Not just for other print sizes, but for gift items too!

And I can just imagine how hard it is for you guys to explain to customers about print sizes. I find it hard too.

Your wish is my command.

Enjoy!

Don

onethumb · November 8, 2004

onethumb wrote:

Your wish is my command.

Enjoy!

Don

Oh, and while I was at it, I expanded "Digital Prints" to include a few more 4:3 ratio sizes: 9x12, 8x24, and 30x40.

Doubt the Pro crowd cares much, since you guys shoot 2:3, but there it is.

Don

mercphoto · November 9, 2004

Print sizes
Woo hoo!

flyingdutchie · November 30, 2005

onethumb wrote:

Oh, and while I was at it, I expanded "Digital Prints" to include a few more 4:3 ratio sizes: 9x12, 8x24, and 30x40.

Doubt the Pro crowd cares much, since you guys shoot 2:3, but there it is.

Don

Most of my pics are indeed 2:3. It would be reaaaally nice to just have all the possible sizes in one list. The list won't be too long; i priced only 5 sizes. That would make a list of only 15 items (lustre, matte, glossy).

Right now, the first (and only) standard size people would see in my shopping cart is the 20x30 size since that is the only standard-size with the 2:3 ratio.

-- Anton.

rutt · November 30, 2005

Here is a suggestion I made a few times and nobody ever responded or seemed to get it. It only addresses a part of the problem, but it's really really easy. Just use the word "size" somewhere in the dropdow. It's a big improvement to say "prints for small cameras" vs "digital prints" but it still doesn't make clear what the distinction is about.

I'd really like it to say "Standard Sized Prints" so it would be easy to understand that this really is just a print sized thing.

The thing I found very confusing was that I didn't know that standard vs digital vs specialty was a size thing at all. My first guess was that it was a different printing process or quality and that "specialty" meant I'd get better results. I guess that if it confuses me it will confuse my customers even more.

flyingdutchie · November 30, 2005

rutt wrote:

Here is a suggestion I made a few times and nobody ever responded or seemed to get it. It only addresses a part of the problem, but it's really really easy. Just use the word "size" somewhere in the dropdow. It's a big improvement to say "prints for small cameras" vs "digital prints" but it still doesn't make clear what the distinction is about.

I'd really like it to say "Standard Sized Prints" so it would be easy to understand that this really is just a print sized thing.

The thing I found very confusing was that I didn't know that standard vs digital vs specialty was a size thing at all. My first guess was that it was a different printing process or quality and that "specialty" meant I'd get better results. I guess that if it confuses me it will confuse my customers even more.

I agree.

In my situation, it almost seems that i offer most prints in 20x30 inches only.... I'd rather have the 8x12 as the default (initial) choice.

marlinspike · December 2, 2005

Why is 24x36 specialty?
I can't figure this one out. I have an easier time finding frames for 24x36 posters than for 20x30. So why is 20x30 standard but 24x36 specialty?

Edited to add: in fact I can't find any 20x30 frames.

Andy · December 2, 2005

marlinspike wrote:

I can't figure this one out. I have an easier time finding frames for 24x36 posters than for 20x30. So why is 20x30 standard but 24x36 specialty?

I wish I had a better answer for you than "becuase"

Thanks for posting though! Moved to an existing thread with similar discussion.

marlinspike · December 2, 2005

Andy wrote:

I wish I had a better answer for you than "becuase"

Thanks for posting though! Moved to an existing thread with similar discussion.

So, can that be changed? Who knows, maybe "all" (quotation marks because it's only a few) of my 20x30 sales would have been 24x36 had that option been in the standard prints menu.

winnjewett · December 3, 2005

Baldy wrote:

Andy mentioned this the other day too. Good question. There were problems with the old way of having everything in one list, so the question is what would work better?

Thanks,
Baldy

Is it possible to separate print sizes from print styles (matte, lustre, gloss)? This would cut 4 lines from every size, making it feasable to place more photos in one dropdown.

-winn

Andy · December 3, 2005

winnjewett wrote:

Is it possible to separate print sizes from print styles (matte, lustre, gloss)? This would cut 4 lines from every size, making it feasable to place more photos in one dropdown.

-winn

Hi Winn, this has been asked - I think by you

in the features thread - we're aware of it. Thanks though, for telling us how important it is to you! No promises on if/when but we know about it.

All the best,

DigitalTasmania · January 6, 2006

Pro sales, 2:3, and "specialty" vs "standard"

onethumb wrote:

Oh, and while I was at it, I expanded "Digital Prints" to include a few more 4:3 ratio sizes: 9x12, 8x24, and 30x40.

Doubt the Pro crowd cares much, since you guys shoot 2:3, but there it is.

Don

Hi all and hi to the SM team,

I'm very new to SM and have just setup my pro site here:

http://www.digitaltasmania.com

I chose SM because I want the best service for my clients and the best "face" for my business.

I'm mostly impressed with SM but am struggling to solve the major issues caused by "standard" vs. "specialty" prints.

I shoot 2:3 and so have 2 sizes, the smallest (4X6) and 2nd largest (20X30), in "standard" and then what are likely to be the most common orders spread across "specialty" ( 8X12 , 10X15, 12X18, etc).

My potential clients see "standard" by default and are confronted with just two very extreme options. Unless they understand or think to change the "product" pulldown they will ( and do ) assume that is all I offer.

Online sales, to be successful, must work for the LCD ( lowest common denominator ) client - how do I rid my SM sales process of this confusion and turn-off to business?

I see this has been discussed here a while back - how have pro-users, shooting pro-equipment (2:3) solved this?

many thanks from the Southern Ocean,

Thomas in Tasmania

PS - I'm probably pushing my luck but maybe someone can tell me how to get the shopping cart to clearly display $ as "US$" or "USD" so my non-US clients who use non-US dollars won't barrage me with angry emails when they see their CC bills?

Andy · January 6, 2006

DigitalTasmania wrote:

Hi all and hi to the SM team,

I'm very new to SM and have just setup my pro site here:

http://www.digitaltasmania.com
many thanks from the Southern Ocean,
>
>
SNIP
>

Thomas in Tasmania

PS - I'm probably pushing my luck but maybe someone can tell me how to get the shopping cart to clearly display $ as "US$" or "USD" so my non-US clients who use non-US dollars won't barrage me with angry emails when they see their CC bills?

Hi Thomas

Welcome to SmugMug and Dgrin!

Here's what one SmugMug Pro does:

http://www.thomasmanchester.com/Order.htm

And you can fine lots more tips in this thread:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=20236

And in my blog:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/pros/

You can make your own help page about the shopping cart, and explain your own way, the transaction is in USD, who SmugMug is, what the CC will say, how to get help from us, etc.

Here's how:
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=186127&postcount=19

Example here:
http://www.moonriverphotography.com/gallery/52248

Customiztion forum here:

http://www.dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31

Holler at me if I can help you get started with ANY of this.

All the best,

Andy (House Pro)

DigitalTasmania · January 6, 2006

Thanks Andy
Thanks for the swift and detailed reply Andy . . .

Seems you are NYC based? I'm a CT boy, born 'n bred, and spent my fair share of time visiting and working in the city . . . now I'm in the "Deep South" here on the shores of the Southern Ocean.

I'll dig through your links in detail.

Without intending to be a gadfly, however, it seems from a scan of the info you have sent that pro's wanting to use the 2:3 format are stuck with products spread across the "standard" & "specialty" product classes - and that it is up to us to try to "explain" that complication in an "order support" page. Is this correct?

If this is the case one might come to the somewhat disapointing conclusion that it would be easier to simply remove the 4X6 and 20X30 products - thus defaulting to only the "specialty".

But maybe I have it wrong? I'll dig into your links in more detail - there is a wealth of information there which I thank you for.

Cheers & thanks,

Thomas in Tassie

Andy · January 6, 2006

DigitalTasmania wrote:

Thanks for the swift and detailed reply Andy . . .

Seems you are NYC based? I'm a CT boy, born 'n bred, and spent my fair share of time visiting and working in the city . . . now I'm in the "Deep South" here on the shores of the Southern Ocean.

I'll dig through your links in detail.

Without intending to be a gadfly, however, it seems from a scan of the info you have sent that pro's wanting to use the 2:3 format are stuck with products spread across the "standard" & "specialty" product classes - and that it is up to us to try to "explain" that complication in an "order support" page. Is this correct?

If this is the case one might come to the somewhat disapointing conclusion that it would be easier to simply remove the 4X6 and 20X30 products - thus defaulting to only the "specialty".

But maybe I have it wrong? I'll dig into your links in more detail - there is a wealth of information there which I thank you for.

Cheers & thanks,

Thomas in Tassie

hiya Thomas

We're always looking at ways to improve the cart -- and this is one of them that we look at. Stay tuned!

In the meantime, here's a bit of NYC for you:

Ordering print sizes

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