Local printing in Europe

Keithl

Hi,

I've just searched this forum for details of local printing in Europe. I came across a couple of threads from last year in which the response was, "we're looking at it".

I just wondered if you've managed to make any progress. I would imagine that Europe would represent a sizeable market for you, and I don't think there would be a shortage of willing partners for the printing. I can't see the technical side should be a barrier as it doesn't really matter whereabouts the servers are physically located.

Thanks,
Keith

Andy

No, we've not made any progress. We'd love to be able to do it, but it's not been something we've been able to turn our full attention on as of yet.

Thanks for letting us know how important it is to you though!

I wish I had a better answer for you.

NaturalEye

Another vote for this! I have quite a few galleries where I know I could sell a bunch of 7x5's, but the prices make it a non starter at the moment...

Gary

rainforest1155

As I'm from Germany this gets my vote, too! Even though I probably voted for it in any of the former threads about this.

Thanks,
Sebastian

Keithl

I have to say I am a little surprised that you're dragging your feet on this. It seems that the American view of Europe as a small, incidental market hasn't yet completely died out. The European market is actually larger than the North American one. At the moment, there is a gaping hole in that market: as far as I'm aware, none of the leading photo-sharing sites has a local European printing operation. The first that does will get my business, and, I suspect, that of an awful lot of others.

Andy

Keithl wrote:

I have to say I am a little surprised that you're dragging your feet on this. It seems that the American view of Europe as a small, incidental market hasn't yet completely died out. The European market is actually larger than the North American one. At the moment, there is a gaping hole in that market: as far as I'm aware, none of the leading photo-sharing sites has a local European printing operation. The first that does will get my business, and, I suspect, that of an awful lot of others.

We're NOT dragging out feet. I can tell you that for a company our size, getting the printing down to a repeatable, consistently high quality operation that we can UNCONDITIONALLY guarantee, has been quite an achievement.

We'd do it in Europe in a heartbeat if and when we can have the same type of setup, but it's not as easy as anyone would think

Keithl

Andy wrote:

... getting the printing down to a repeatable, consistently high quality operation that we can UNCONDITIONALLY guarantee, has been quite an achievement.

We'd do it in Europe in a heartbeat if and when we can have the same type of setup, but it's not as easy as anyone would think

Thanks for the reply again, Andy. I'm not trying to antagonise you, but I do genuinely find it difficult to understand why things should be as difficult as you describe.

I'd have thought that once you've chosen your printing partner, all of the hassle of printing is in their hands, not yours. Is it not simply a case of making the files available to them?

I agree that you need to find a European partner capable of producing repeatable, high-quality results; but I wouldn't have thought that so difficult. There's also the admin and charging to sort out of course, but is that too not a one-off up-front exercise?

Andy

Keithl wrote:

Thanks for the reply again, Andy. I'm not trying to antagonise you, but I do genuinely find it difficult to understand why things should be as difficult as you describe.

I'd have thought that once you've chosen your printing partner, all of the hassle of printing is in their hands, not yours. Is it not simply a case of making the files available to them?

Seriously, it's muuuuch more than that

I agree that you need to find a European partner capable of producing repeatable, high-quality results; but I wouldn't have thought that so difficult. There's also the admin and charging to sort out of course, but is that too not a one-off up-front exercise?

We're always looking into it!
Thanks

Keithl

Andy wrote:

Seriously, it's muuuuch more than that

Care to elaborate??

rainforest1155

Keithl wrote:

Care to elaborate??

Take a look here for a summary on how and why ez prints was chosen.

Sebastian

Manfr3d

Keithl wrote:

I have to say I am a little surprised that you're dragging your feet on this. It seems that the American view of Europe as a small, incidental market hasn't yet completely died out. The European market is actually larger than the North American one. At the moment, there is a gaping hole in that market: as far as I'm aware, none of the leading photo-sharing sites has a local European printing operation. The first that does will get my business, and, I suspect, that of an awful lot of others.

Well the Germans have it (fotocommunity.com),
looking at their stats, they appear to be somewhat leading.
But I dont know about the quality of their prints.
And since fc is very static and uncustomizable I
doubt they would be able to compete with smugmug.eu

Keithl

rainforest1155 wrote:

Take a look here for a summary on how and why ez prints was chosen.

Sebastian

Hi Sebastian. I had already read that information, and I think it reinforces my point. You have to be careful to choose the right print partner, but once it's done, it's done. It's not the most difficult, nor time-consuming task in the world.

Once you have made your decision, I still cannot see that you need to do much more than make the files available to them. They then deal with the printing and despatch.

Andy

Keithl wrote:

Hi Sebastian. I had already read that information, and I think it reinforces my point. You have to be careful to choose the right print partner, but once it's done, it's done. It's not the most difficult, nor time-consuming task in the world.

Once you have made your decision, I still cannot see that you need to do much more than make the files available to them. They then deal with the printing and despatch.

I wish I had hours to go through it all with you.

Please know that we'd love to have other local print options, and if and when we an do so with the same quality, consistency, and business model, and be able to guarantee it fully, just like we do now, then we'll offer it.

Keithl

Andy wrote:

I wish I had hours to go through it all with you.

I appreciate that you're very busy, Andy. I wasn't asking you for chapter and verse. Just a simple overview of why it is not as straightforward as it appears.

Andy

Keithl wrote:

I appreciate that you're very busy, Andy. I wasn't asking you for chapter and verse. Just a simple overview of why it is not as straightforward as it appears.

Nah - it's just my way of saying that there's MUCH more to it than you are suggesting.

* who owns the lab?
* what's their business model?
* how financially stable are they?
* what equipment do they have?
* how are they staffed?
* how long have they been in business?
* what shipping methods do they use?
* what products can they/do they offer?
* what are the QA procedures?
* are they compatible with our API and electronic methods?
* are they compatible with our auto-color methods?

and on, and on, and on

Cliff Photo

Just for the record, I'd LOVE to see this happen as well!

Cliff

Keithl

Andy wrote:

Nah - it's just my way of saying that there's MUCH more to it than you are suggesting.

* who owns the lab?
* what's their business model?
* how financially stable are they?
* what equipment do they have?
* how are they staffed?
* how long have they been in business?
* what shipping methods do they use?
* what products can they/do they offer?
* what are the QA procedures?
* are they compatible with our API and electronic methods?
* are they compatible with our auto-color methods?

and on, and on, and on

Well, I have to say I'm distinctly underwhelmed by that answer. Those are not difficult questions to answer. You could find that information about any lab very quickly.

If you really do want to set this up, surely it should be a relatively simple matter to make a shortlist of half a dozen major, long-established, reputable labs in Europe; send them some anonymous test prints to make your final decision; and then get in touch with them to tell them you'd like to give them some business.

Andy

Keithl wrote:

Well, I have to say I'm distinctly underwhelmed by that answer. Those are not difficult questions to answer. You could find that information about any lab very quickly.

If you really do want to set this up, surely it should be a relatively simple matter to make a shortlist of half a dozen major, long-established, reputable labs in Europe; send them some anonymous test prints to make your final decision; and then get in touch with them to tell them you'd like to give them some business.

Oh man, I'm sorry Keith - seems like you won't be satisfied with any of my answers

That's why I originally said hours and then I foolishly tried to summarize it. You forgot this part :

Andy wrote:

and on, and on, and on

We don't comment much on future plans, so I'm afraid my original answer will have to suffice

cheers,

Keithl

Andy wrote:

Oh man, I'm sorry Keith - seems like you won't be satisfied with any of my answers

That's why I originally said hours and then I foolishly tried to summarize it.

We don't comment much on future plans, so I'm afraid my original answer will have to suffice

cheers,

Fair enough, Andy. Thanks for your time anyway. If you'd have originally said that local European printing simply isn't high on your list of priorities, I'd have left it at that. It's your company and it's entirely up to you how you run it.

You actually said that you'd love to do it but that it would very difficult to set up. I couldn't see why it would be difficult and asked for clarification. I don't feel that you've provided any clarification and I don't think it would be difficult.

Cheers, and thanks,

Keith

Andy

Keithl wrote:

Fair enough, Andy. Thanks for your time anyway. If you'd have originally said that local European printing simply isn't high on your list of priorities, I'd have left it at that.

I thought that's what I said, maybe not so directly, here
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=316328&postcount=2

Have a great day!

DavidTO

Keithl wrote:

I don't think it would be difficult.

Sounds like a great opportunity. A wide open market, and easy pickings. Go for it.

marlof

Keith, I think you've just proven Andy's point.

Andy wrote:

seems like you won't be satisfied with any of my answers

I'm European as well, and would like to see European printing. But
I for one can understand that there's more involved if you want to do that as a business that's trying to stand behind a quality product than you seem to imagine. I just hope that the search for a European printing partner has started, since that would be the first step to be taken on the long road Andy described. But I can see why Andy can't even comment on that. This is a business after all. So if it takes a while before one is announced, I can live with that. I currently can't think of a better hosting site than Smugmug, even if their prints have to cross an ocean.

I would like 4.5x6" printing, but that's another issue.

Keithl

Andy wrote:

I thought that's what I said, maybe not so directly, here
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=316328&postcount=2

Have a great day!

I'm not getting into a point-scroring competition, Andy. I could pluck a quote or two of my own from this thread too. As I said above, my feeling is that this would not be a difficult thing for you to set up if you had the will to do it. Nothing you've said in our exchanges has altered that opinion.

If you want to have the last word, it's all yours.

Cheers,
Keith

marlof

Keithl wrote:

if you had the will to do it

I think in writing "will" you actually missspelled "unlimited resources".

I Simonius

Keithl wrote:

Fair enough, Andy. Thanks for your time anyway. If you'd have originally said that local European printing simply isn't high on your list of priorities, I'd have left it at that. It's your company and it's entirely up to you how you run it.

You actually said that you'd love to do it but that it would very difficult to set up. I couldn't see why it would be difficult and asked for clarification. I don't feel that you've provided any clarification and I don't think it would be difficult.

Cheers, and thanks,

Keith

This really IS essential to set up if you want to keep UK subscribers like me long term

"The test

Over a three-month period ending November, 2003, we sent 26 test shots repeatedly to 10 print providers. 16 of our customers quickly narrowed their favorites to 4 sets of prints, with little disagreement.

Then an expanded group of 30 customers independently chose their favorite and least favorite results in a blind test from the final four.

Test details."

I'd be happy to help test the European printers!

yvonne

I would also like to see European printing.

I have stopped using Smugmug for printing, except for my US customers.

The turnaround time of prints is too long from the US and the cost of shipping too high to be realistic for pro users. Especially if I need to order reprints because something is not quite right with a print.

I now use smugmug for viewing only, and they have to order from me directly.

justcallmetom

The need for European [or any other international location] printing
I add my name to the list of clients that want (and need) to be able to print in Europe.

Even if the SmugMug isn't directly linked with the printer - couldn't there still be made an acceptable link?

I am curious to the status of this.
Thanks.

Tom.

paulbrock

yes me too! There are lots of great things about Smugmug, but US-centricness isn't one of them.

Unfortunately I'll only be willing to let my customers order through Smugmug when all of the below are fulfilled:

1) Euro-printing (or equivalent postage/shipping charges)

2) UKP pricing

3) Payment to the photographer without sending a 'check' in US dollars....I accept paypal, all major credit cards and direct bank transfers.

wizzy

I'd like to sign for Europe printing aswell.
SmugMug is the best photosite i've ever seen, but i have to put my pictures on another site aswell, just for the printing.
I'm in the Netherlands, and no way, my customers will order with an US service.
A European print-provider would be awesome.

tomnovy

People today I have been on Focus on imaging and today SmugMug has announced that they started cooperation with EU lab - starting from 23 March this year we all will be able to buy print in EU - the lab I am talking about is LOXLEY COLOUR - http://loxleycolour.com/. Great chat with Andy, Baldy and Ana. Thanks for your time and btw - AMAZING Stand!

Andy

tomnovy wrote: »

People today I have been on Focus on imaging and today SmugMug has announced that they started cooperation with EU lab - starting from 23 March this year we all will be able to buy print in EU - the lab I am talking about is LOXLEY COLOUR - http://loxleycolour.com/. Great chat with Andy, Baldy and Ana. Thanks for your time and btw - AMAZING Stand!

Great to see you Tomasz! Thanks for stopping by, and the kind words