Will the image quality degrade over time?

papajay

I'm relatively new to Smugmug, and am putting substantial time and effort into uploading my jpg images, creating galleries, etc. My intention was/is to use Smugmug as my primary image library "for all time".

I've recently learned (to my chagrin) using another site that the good quality jpg images I originally sent appear hideous on the site...I'm told this is the nature of jpg images over time (that they "degrade" a bit each time the file is accessed).

Is that going to happen with my jpg images that I've uploaded to Smugmug? Or am I worried about a "non-problem" here? Does smugmug convert the jpg file into another file type for long-term storage? Will the gallery quality be as good next year as it is this year regardless of how many visitors or "viewings" there are on my site?

My camera does not shoot RAW (can you even upload RAW or TIFF files to Smugmug?? or do they have to be JPG anyway??)

If the effort it takes to upload, caption, crop, adjust, and add keywords etc to my jpg images all goes for naught because the image quality on Smugmug degrades over time due to visits from people I didn't even invite to view my galleries, I'm going to be....well...upset, and disappointed.

Please tell me I haven't made a huge mistake...I'm hoping Smugmug truly lives up to my initial impression of it being the end-all, be-all solution I wanted as a disorganized, frustrated home photographer.

Papajay (papajay.smugmug.com)

Andy

papajay wrote:

Or am I worried about a "non-problem" here?

You're worrying about a non-problem

Your originals remain untouched by us, in the same condition as when you upload them.

And the resized copies we make for display (-L, -M, etc) were recently improved, read here:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2006/03/17/new-features-march-16-2006/

Holler if you have any more questions!

Oh you might like this, too:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2006/04/27/new-features-april-27-2006/

papajay

Feeling much better now. "Non-Problem" Averted!!

Andy wrote:

You're worrying about a non-problem

Your originals remain untouched by us, in the same condition as when you upload them.

And the resized copies we make for display (-L, -M, etc) were recently improved, read here:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2006/03/17/new-features-march-16-2006/

Holler if you have any more questions!

Oh you might like this, too:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2006/04/27/new-features-april-27-2006/

Thanks Andy...after laboriously deleting a large number of images ONE AT A TIME from "the other site" due to degraded image quality, I'm so relieved to know that Smugmug will save me that drudgery, and that my pics will look as "fresh" 5,10,15...years from now as they do today!

papajay

What about those "Resized Copies" over time

papajay wrote:

Thanks Andy...after laboriously deleting a large number of images ONE AT A TIME from "the other site" due to degraded image quality, I'm so relieved to know that Smugmug will save me that drudgery, and that my pics will look as "fresh" 5,10,15...years from now as they do today!

Andy, Me again...are the resized copies of my originals copied as jpg images also?...and will THEY degrade in image quality over time as friends and family visit my site? Do you refresh the display copies periodically? Or is that ANOTHER non-problem? Papajay

asd

papajay wrote:

Andy, Me again...are the resized copies of my originals copied as jpg images also?...and will THEY degrade in image quality over time as friends and family visit my site? Do you refresh the display copies periodically? Or is that ANOTHER non-problem? Papajay

(I'm not smugmug support..just pitching in

JPEGs degrade when they're edited, but not when they're viewed. So if smugmug displays small, medium, large, or even original copies of your pictures to a million people, the quality will never degrade for any of them.

The only time you'll need to worry about degrading quality is if you open your image in an editor, make changes, and then save it (it's better to save a copy). My guess is that the drop in quality you noticed on your previous site was due to the way they resized your pictures for display--they may or may not have kept your originals safe. Smugmug does.

Andy

asd wrote:

(I'm not smugmug support..just pitching in

JPEGs degrade when they're edited, but not when they're viewed. So if smugmug displays small, medium, large, or even original copies of your pictures to a million people, the quality will never degrade for any of them.

The only time you'll need to worry about degrading quality is if you open your image in an editor, make changes, and then save it (it's better to save a copy). My guess is that the drop in quality you noticed on your previous site was due to the way they resized your pictures for display--they may or may not have kept your originals safe. Smugmug does.

papajay

Wheew!...I can relax now!

asd wrote:

(I'm not smugmug support..just pitching in

JPEGs degrade when they're edited, but not when they're viewed. So if smugmug displays small, medium, large, or even original copies of your pictures to a million people, the quality will never degrade for any of them.

The only time you'll need to worry about degrading quality is if you open your image in an editor, make changes, and then save it (it's better to save a copy). My guess is that the drop in quality you noticed on your previous site was due to the way they resized your pictures for display--they may or may not have kept your originals safe. Smugmug does.

Thank you, Andrew (another "Andy" to thank).

saurora

asd wrote:

(I'm not smugmug support..just pitching in

JPEGs degrade when they're edited, but not when they're viewed. So if smugmug displays small, medium, large, or even original copies of your pictures to a million people, the quality will never degrade for any of them.

The only time you'll need to worry about degrading quality is if you open your image in an editor, make changes, and then save it (it's better to save a copy). My guess is that the drop in quality you noticed on your previous site was due to the way they resized your pictures for display--they may or may not have kept your originals safe. Smugmug does.

That doesn't seem to be a totally true statement to me. I have seen many deteriorated images on websites. My family uses MyFamily.com and all of our images have deteriorated, some to almost unrecognizable quality. I have not edited the images on the site, but viewed them many times as have all members of our entire family. This has been a concern to me as well. Ok sorry, I just re-read your statement more carefully. I guess as long as Smugmug keeps the originals intact, I wont worry too much. But you have to admit, it's a pain to take down entire galleries of photos one snap at a time.

mpmcleod

saurora wrote:

That doesn't seem to be a totally true statement to me. I have seen many deteriorated images on websites. My family uses MyFamily.com and all of our images have deteriorated, some to almost unrecognizable quality. I have not edited the images on the site, but viewed them many times as have all members of our entire family. This has been a concern to me as well.

Images on a filesystem DO NOT change and DO NOT deteriorate unless someone or something changes them. The number of times one views a digital image will NOT affect the quality of the image. It just doesn't work that way. That is the point of DIGITAL images (they are just 1s and 0s). As long as those 1s and 0s remain intact and unchanged on the filesysytem the image will be EXACTLY the SAME. Files CAN become corrupted if parts of the drive fail but generally that results in the image simply being unable to be opened.

The most likely explaination is that those other providers are compressing older images to save space on their systems. Another possiblility is that they compress their files as they send it to your browser.

Mike Lane

Simply accessing a jpg file isn't going to do anything to it. That's like saying that just by viewing a word document (and not making or saving any changes) it will somehow change over time. Unless the jpg file is corrupted or is saved and resaved again and again it isn't going to change. That's the nature of digital media in general. The 1's and 0's don't just change over time just because the files are viewed over the internet.

I think the other site was feeding papajay a load of crap to excuse their poor management of their customer's files.

saurora

mpmcleod wrote:

The most likely explaination is that those other providers are compressing older images to save space on their systems. Another possiblility is that they compress their files as they send it to your browser.

Thanks, Mike. Now I understand a little better. It's reassuring to know the images themselves are not going to change. And also, that it is probably the fault of the provider trying to save space. Perhaps it is their way of getting you to upgrade your site! Hmmm....if a customer was alloted a certain amount of space and the space was running out, could that have any effect on image quality?? Probably a dumb question, but this is definitely not my area of expertise.

docwalker

I am a MyFamily.com user and an avid Smugmug user.

IMHO: It appears that MyFamily is running some sort of compression routine to save space. In most cases it does not hurt anything. In some, the image will start to appear grainy.

I am really debating about keeping my myfamily account open. I have a huge family and only a dozen people have actually signed up even after giving out the address numerous times. The old addage of build it and they will come did not pan out. I signed up to give people a chance to review my genealogy files which they constantly ask for. No one to my knowledge have actually started using it. So, I may let the account expire and focus on photography and keep my genealogy research available to those that actually take the time to continue the effort.

saurora

docwalker wrote:

I am a MyFamily.com user and an avid Smugmug user.

IMHO: It appears that MyFamily is running some sort of compression routine to save space. In most cases it does not hurt anything. In some, the image will start to appear grainy.

I am really debating about keeping my myfamily account open. I have a huge family and only a dozen people have actually signed up even after giving out the address numerous times. The old addage of build it and they will come did not pan out. I signed up to give people a chance to review my genealogy files which they constantly ask for. No one to my knowledge have actually started using it. So, I may let the account expire and focus on photography and keep my genealogy research available to those that actually take the time to continue the effort.

It isn't easy to get family to upload pictures for some reason. Our family is large also, and did pretty well for awhile. But most of the posting was done by "ta-dah" those who were interested in photography (ours amounted to about a dozen people as well). The others occasionally stopped by to lurk. Some of the older generation, however, really enjoyed "lurking" so we continued to post for them and ourselves. But unfortunately, our senior members are dwindling and the newer generation seems uninterested in participating. So a few of us are breaking off onto other domains such as Smugmug and we post can post a link now, rather than double-uploading. I think our site will probably be defunct before long. Too bad. It really was fun for a while and brought distant cousins closer and we were able to keep tabs on everyone. But if the images are going to be compressed into the state ours are in, we can't look at using the site as an on-line photo history of our family anyway. :cry