Comments on Photojournalism

THE TOUCH · June 6, 2006

I've been wondering about the Photojournalism field such as local newspapers and magazines but I really don't know much about it. I was wondering if anyone could give some insight about this area such as negatives/positives, recommendations for getting "onboard", typical pay structures (which I heard is pretty low), and maybe some day to day examples.

Our local college offers a degree in Journalism and a Certificate of Completion in Photojournalism that I have been considering. The other thought was a digital arts degree.

I've been in the manufacturing industry as a Service Engineer and I'm really looking for something different. I love photography, have been shooting since I was 10, and have recently started up a business but I'm needing something else to help pay the bills!

ANY comments, concerns, or suggestions would be great! I am completely undecided so feel free to tell me if this is the wrong direction! :thumb

Thank you all!!!

gus · June 6, 2006

I have thought about this a lot mate & for me i recon i would soon become bored & see the camera as work. One of the best things about working out of the photography field is thinking about what im going to next for my hobby whilst im in working away.

I know there will be lots of diff ideas here to help you but for me anyway..its like painting or sculpting...as in its about art, not a weekly pay packet. WAY too much time away from family (kids) as well from the few sports pro's i have spoken with.

THE TOUCH · June 6, 2006

gus wrote:

I have thought about this a lot mate & for me i recon i would soon become bored & see the camera as work. One of the best things about working out of the photography field is thinking about what im going to next for my hobby whilst im in working away.

I know there will be lots of diff ideas here to help you but for me anyway..its like painting or sculpting...as in its about art, not a weekly pay packet. WAY too much time away from family (kids) as well from the few sports pro's i have spoken with.

Interesting view. Thanks Gus.

I'm always afraid of turning a passion into just a job. That was a concern with starting the business.

marlinspike · June 6, 2006

gus wrote:

WAY too much time away from family (kids) as well from the few sports pro's i have spoken with.

I think sports is unique in that it involves MUCH more traveling than the average bear. Those White House Press Corps guys seem to have pretty cushy gigs. I see them on the metro (subway), 9-5 job it seems.

Larry · June 11, 2006

Photojournalism

THE TOUCH wrote:

I've been wondering about the Photojournalism field such as local newspapers and magazines but I really don't know much about it. I was wondering if anyone could give some insight about this area such as negatives/positives, recommendations for getting "onboard", typical pay structures (which I heard is pretty low), and maybe some day to day examples.

I've been a geek (systems admin) for years and years, but I'm also now a Staff Writer and the Staff Photographer for a local community paper - The Santa Clara Weekly. I started writiing for them in February 2005 and I became the Staff Photographer in July. However, when I first contacted the paper, the reaction was luke-warm at best. I had submitted some photos and while they liked my work, they told me everyone wants to be a photographer, but no one wants to write. So, I asked what they had (it was covering the City Council Meetings and making them "fun" - feel free to ask how to do that) and I jumped (well, maybe not jumped) at the chance.

In July, the previous photographer quit and even though they'd worked with other photographers in the past, since I had a 4 month track record they figured it wouldn't be a brief fling.

The first thing I'd recommend you do is contact some of the smaller papers and magazines in your area to gauge their interest. Try to find any that are independent since most are owned by pretty large corporations that have a lot of staff people already and can get articles/photos from other papers they own too.

If you don't get a good response, consider covering some event - a dedication, sports event (local little league, soccer game, etc) in town replete with pictures and about a 500-600 word article. If you can, try to get names of people involved too and then submit it within a few days of the event - basically in time for their production schedule. For the photos, crop them to about 4"x6" or so and submit them in color (if you're using Photoshop, RGB). The whole idea is to give the editor as little work to do as possible. A story that's proofed and ready to go along with cropped photos with captions is always easier to get published.

Then, wait until the next issue comes out and see if your stuff is there. If not, contact the editor - I'd call instead of emailing - and see if they received your stuff and if so, if they had any comments. This is what opened the door for me. I submitted 2 photos plus an article that never got published, but it served the purpose of starting the conversation.

THE TOUCH wrote:

Our local college offers a degree in Journalism and a Certificate of Completion in Photojournalism that I have been considering. The other thought was a digital arts degree.

I've been in the manufacturing industry as a Service Engineer and I'm really looking for something different.

It's difficult to say how much the degree will help. You might want to contact a few local papers and ask the editor (either in person or via email) if they can tell you if the degree and/or certificate will help.

Personally, I think showing what you can do goes a lot further than having a piece of paper that says you're qualified to do something.

THE TOUCH wrote:

I love photography, have been shooting since I was 10, and have recently started up a business but I'm needing something else to help pay the bills!

I love to write almost as much as I love photography and I have my own photo business too. I've been playing with cameras ever since my older brother bought a Canon TL-QL back in the early 70s.

I see the money I make from my photography business (the paper and anything I do independently as well) as supplementing my income but it's no where near to being enough to replace what I make at my regular job (yet at least).

I don't really consider what I do for the paper as "work" since I love what I'm doing, plus I'm getting paid for it too. I've never gotten bored with any of the assignments (well, watching the City Council Meetings maybe) and at most of them, I find myself thinking I've got to make this my full-time job.

THE TOUCH wrote:

ANY comments, concerns, or suggestions would be great! I am completely undecided so feel free to tell me if this is the wrong direction!

Thank you all!!!

Larry

THE TOUCH · June 11, 2006

Larry wrote:

I've been a geek (systems admin) for years and years, but I'm also now a Staff Writer and the Staff Photographer for a local community paper - The Santa Clara Weekly. I started writiing for them in February 2005 and I became the Staff Photographer in July. However, when I first contacted the paper, the reaction was luke-warm at best. I had submitted some photos and while they liked my work, they told me everyone wants to be a photographer, but no one wants to write. So, I asked what they had (it was covering the City Council Meetings and making them "fun" - feel free to ask how to do that) and I jumped (well, maybe not jumped) at the chance.

In July, the previous photographer quit and even though they'd worked with other photographers in the past, since I had a 4 month track record they figured it wouldn't be a brief fling.

The first thing I'd recommend you do is contact some of the smaller papers and magazines in your area to gauge their interest. Try to find any that are independent since most are owned by pretty large corporations that have a lot of staff people already and can get articles/photos from other papers they own too.

If you don't get a good response, consider covering some event - a dedication, sports event (local little league, soccer game, etc) in town replete with pictures and about a 500-600 word article. If you can, try to get names of people involved too and then submit it within a few days of the event - basically in time for their production schedule. For the photos, crop them to about 4"x6" or so and submit them in color (if you're using Photoshop, RGB). The whole idea is to give the editor as little work to do as possible. A story that's proofed and ready to go along with cropped photos with captions is always easier to get published.

Then, wait until the next issue comes out and see if your stuff is there. If not, contact the editor - I'd call instead of emailing - and see if they received your stuff and if so, if they had any comments. This is what opened the door for me. I submitted 2 photos plus an article that never got published, but it served the purpose of starting the conversation.

It's difficult to say how much the degree will help. You might want to contact a few local papers and ask the editor (either in person or via email) if they can tell you if the degree and/or certificate will help.

Personally, I think showing what you can do goes a lot further than having a piece of paper that says you're qualified to do something.

I love to write almost as much as I love photography and I have my own photo business too. I've been playing with cameras ever since my older brother bought a Canon TL-QL back in the early 70s.

I see the money I make from my photography business (the paper and anything I do independently as well) as supplementing my income but it's no where near to being enough to replace what I make at my regular job (yet at least).

I don't really consider what I do for the paper as "work" since I love what I'm doing, plus I'm getting paid for it too. I've never gotten bored with any of the assignments (well, watching the City Council Meetings maybe) and at most of them, I find myself thinking I've got to make this my full-time job.

Larry

Great advice. Thank you Larry.

A couple months ago I popped an email to the photo director of our main newspaper asking if they had any type of intern program and suggestions for getting onboard with them. He said that they don't have intern programs and in order to even be considered, you must have at least a certification program or a degree in Photo Journalism.

It's funny you mentioned smaller papers - I just emailed three of them on Friday! I basically stated I would shoot for free if they would trade for some advertising space, plus the interaction at the events would help our business as well.

I'll work on putting some articles together. I stink at writing but my wife is awesome! We always talk about tag-teaming.

I got a question for you -

Do keep rights to the images? Can you use them outside of the paper?

Larry · June 11, 2006

THE TOUCH wrote:

Great advice. Thank you Larry.

You're welcome. :-)

THE TOUCH wrote:

A couple months ago I popped an email to the photo director of our main newspaper asking if they had any type of intern program and suggestions for getting onboard with them. He said that they don't have intern programs and in order to even be considered, you must have at least a certification program or a degree in Photo Journalism.

This might be because they *really* want to see the cert/degree or they use it as a way to screen out the casual ("Gee, I think it'd be fun to get something published") photographers from the ones they can depend on over time.

THE TOUCH wrote:

It's funny you mentioned smaller papers - I just emailed three of them on Friday! I basically stated I would shoot for free if they would trade for some advertising space, plus the interaction at the events would help our business as well.

Depending on their budget (which you can kind of tell based on the number of ads per page/issue vs items written by their staff), they might prefer to go for a discounted ad rate instead since they have bills to pay. If they say no to the free ad, ask them about a discounted rate instead.

You have to be a little careful advertising your business at an event. If you say you're submitting things to the paper, people might be put off if you then, try to sell them photos as well. It's a fine balancing act that I still haven't quite figured out 100% yet.

THE TOUCH wrote:

I'll work on putting some articles together. I stink at writing but my wife is awesome! We always talk about tag-teaming.

Well, this is a way to work together, although I think the writing is always more difficult. If your wife doesn't go to every event you do, make sure you take notes or pick up enough information to convey a sense of the excitement or enthusiasm at the event.

I'd try to focus on more positive, upbeat stories - things that people can go, "Wow... I had no idea but that makes me really proud to live here."

THE TOUCH wrote:

I got a question for you -

Do keep rights to the images? Can you use them outside of the paper?

Yes and no. Anything that gets published in the paper is technically their property. Some photos the paper has published have been used by other organizations as well and that's considered "a good will gesture" but I'm also not getting paid by the other groups either. I just ask for some sort of recognition that includes my name, company name and email address (or some combination).

I sort of avoid the problem by shooting multiple frames of any shot. That way, I can submit one photo to the paper and the one I shot a second later can be sold. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that should be okay. :-)

Larry

philipw · June 11, 2006

First off, I want to say that photojournalism is a blast. You get to see all kinds of things and meet all kinds of people.

If you really want to get into it, you’re probably going to need to start at a smaller paper and offer to shoot for a photo credit, but they might pay you as a stringer. Odds are, you’re not going to walk into daily and they’re going to hook you up with a job. I see you’re from Bakersfield, which means you have the Californian in backyard, A good paper, but they probably won’t take someone starting out.

The part about the degree is a weeding out process. Larger papers look for people with PJ experience. A lot of shooters started out as writers.

What you need to do is get some clips together, events, sporting events, feature art, news, if you have any, and put them together on a CD portfolio. A photojournalist also writes cutlines (captions) to go with the image. You need to get people’s names, what they’re doing in the photograph or something about the event/happening. They shouldn’t be anymore than two sentences, and you should follow Associated Press style unless told otherwise by the people you’re submitting it to. Study cutlines in papers.

You’ll probably want to submit a photo essay to editors with your portfolio as well. A lot look for those wanting to see how you can visually tell a story.

I started out as writer, and jumped to photo. Photojournalism is a little bit different than being like someone showing up a camera and taking a few pictures of something and then walking away. What would really helped me was when I was at press events before I moved to shooting, I would watch the press photographers and how they got the images they did. I’ve seen them do some pretty crazy stuff, and I’ve done some pretty crazy stuff to get certain images. You have be really creative when it comes to composition and think of ways to capture events that wouldn’t even occur to most people who show up and point and shoot. We’re always looking to capture things and visually tell stories in way that others aren’t.

Now, the other issue is pay. It’s not that great at smaller papers. To be paid a living wage, you almost have to shoot for a major daily. I’m would assume because of the size of the paper, the Californian takes care of its people. It might even be a union paper, which has some pluses. Not too much more to say here on that.

I have small portfolio on-line here if you want to look at it.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Philip

THE TOUCH · June 11, 2006

Larry wrote:

You're welcome. :-)

This might be because they *really* want to see the cert/degree or they use it as a way to screen out the casual ("Gee, I think it'd be fun to get something published") photographers from the ones they can depend on over time.

Depending on their budget (which you can kind of tell based on the number of ads per page/issue vs items written by their staff), they might prefer to go for a discounted ad rate instead since they have bills to pay. If they say no to the free ad, ask them about a discounted rate instead.

You have to be a little careful advertising your business at an event. If you say you're submitting things to the paper, people might be put off if you then, try to sell them photos as well. It's a fine balancing act that I still haven't quite figured out 100% yet.

Well, this is a way to work together, although I think the writing is always more difficult. If your wife doesn't go to every event you do, make sure you take notes or pick up enough information to convey a sense of the excitement or enthusiasm at the event.

I'd try to focus on more positive, upbeat stories - things that people can go, "Wow... I had no idea but that makes me really proud to live here."

Yes and no. Anything that gets published in the paper is technically their property. Some photos the paper has published have been used by other organizations as well and that's considered "a good will gesture" but I'm also not getting paid by the other groups either. I just ask for some sort of recognition that includes my name, company name and email address (or some combination).

I sort of avoid the problem by shooting multiple frames of any shot. That way, I can submit one photo to the paper and the one I shot a second later can be sold. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that should be okay. :-)

Larry

Good Stuff!

I was actually thinking of contacting the photo director again, let him know that I'm considering some classes in photo journalism, and to see if I could tag along with one of the photographers, not as an internship, but just to get a better idea of the job/enviorment.

THE TOUCH · June 11, 2006

philipw wrote:

First off, I want to say that photojournalism is a blast. You get to see all kinds of things and meet all kinds of people.

Love your enthusiasm...sounds exciting! I always look at the work from the photographers at the Californian and think...How cool! They get to be apart of some really awesome things!

If you really want to get into it, you’re probably going to need to start at a smaller paper and offer to shoot for a photo credit, but they might pay you as a stringer. Odds are, you’re not going to walk into daily and they’re going to hook you up with a job. I see you’re from Bakersfield, which means you have the Californian in backyard, A good paper, but they probably won’t take someone starting out.

Makes sense. I wouldn't hire me at the Californian either!

As mentioned before, I contacted the smaller papers on Friday so I'm hoping I hear back from them! As far as actual journalism...I really don't have the experience so a smaller paper would be great. Even better, I would love to tag along with an experienced photographer in the field.

What you need to do is get some clips together, events, sporting events, feature art, news, if you have any, and put them together on a CD portfolio. A photojournalist also writes cutlines (captions) to go with the image. You need to get people’s names, what they’re doing in the photograph or something about the event/happening. They shouldn’t be anymore than two sentences, and you should follow Associated Press style unless told otherwise by the people you’re submitting it to. Study cutlines in papers.

I really need to work on this! I've been photographing in Mexico for years and years doing journalistic type photography but I've never had to document the event, location, person, etc. I'll be going again in a few months, this would be a good time to practice!

Photojournalism is a little bit different than being like someone showing up a camera and taking a few pictures of something and then walking away. What would really helped me was when I was at press events before I moved to shooting, I would watch the press photographers and how they got the images they did. I’ve seen them do some pretty crazy stuff, and I’ve done some pretty crazy stuff to get certain images. You have be really creative when it comes to composition and think of ways to capture events that wouldn’t even occur to most people who show up and point and shoot. We’re always looking to capture things and visually tell stories in way that others aren’t.

Would you mind "evaluating" some galleries from a photojournalism point of view? Best example would probably be Mexico 2005 - Here. Feel free to look at the other galleries. Any comments would be GREATLY appreciated!

Now, the other issue is pay. It’s not that great at smaller papers. To be paid a living wage, you almost have to shoot for a major daily. I’m would assume because of the size of the paper, the Californian takes care of its people. It might even be a union paper, which has some pluses. Not too much more to say here on that.

At this point, pay is not an issue...I just want to shoot!

I have small portfolio on-line here if you want to look at it.

Great work!

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Philip

Helps a bunch! Thank you Philip!

philipw · June 12, 2006

I'll take a look. Since there are so many, it'll take a while before I get to you, but I will.

Philip

philipw · June 12, 2006

philipw wrote:

I'll take a look. Since there are so many, it'll take a while before I get to you, but I will.

Philip

Okay, I looked at your work, and since what I wrote turned out to be so long, I e-mailed my response to you at the address on your web site. Hope it helps.

Philip

THE TOUCH · June 12, 2006

philipw wrote:

Okay, I looked at your work, and since what I wrote turned out to be so long, I e-mailed my response to you at the address on your web site. Hope it helps.

Philip

Philip,

I just can't thank you enough. I figured you would give an overall impression of the gallery but when I saw all of your comments, I just about hit the floor! Thank you so much! It's always difficult to get an outside opinion and you provided that and much more. It's also difficult to get an honest opinion on candids from someone that really knows what to look for.

Thank you again! If I can ever return the favor, just let me know.

philipw · June 12, 2006

No problem. Glad I could help.

Philip

CGrindahl · June 12, 2006

I saw your question and thought I'd share the gist of a conversation I had last week during a hike with a journalist working for Variety, the entertainment news journal. A mutual friend introduced us when this fellow was visiting from Los Angeles. We talked photography a bit since he'd seen some photos I'd taken of my friend's son. Then he began talking about the news business and the challenges that face photographers. From what he said, it is very difficult to make money in the profession, largely because of all the competition from folks with digital cameras willing and able to provide images quickly and inexpensively. He said the key issue for photographers is access to the venue where photos of value can be taken. Variety uses Getty to take its photos and Getty is notorious for its competitive practices. They are so big with so many images in stock, as well as so many photographers shooting for them, that they can undercut competition quite easily.

I mention this not to discourage you, but to suggest the field is very competitive. Getting work that pays a living wage isn't easy to do, if I'm to judge from what this fellow had to say on the subject. It is good you're doing your research. If this really is your dream it is perhaps worth pursuing even if you find yourself the starving artist. But forewarned is forearmed. Good luck with your deliberations.