How would this work?

Head in the Clouds

My parents, who run a business, 'commissioned' me to come down to their little town on the river and take some shots of the surrounds for them to display in their rental cabin in their caravan park. (its a bit of a spiffy cabin, over looking the water, all brand new etc)

I managed to produce 6 shots that they liked and I gave them the images to get blown up and framed. I'm now trying to work out what the hell to charge them.

What do you guys do for commissioned stuff? Do you break it down into say - travel time, photographing time, post prosessing time, and then a $ amount for the right to use the images? or just one, say, $250 for the lot?

The other thing - how does it work with copyright? If they've paid me for the images, do they then belong to them? What if I want to exhibit the same images and offer them for sale? :dunno

I know all this should have been sorted before I took the shots, but it wasn't - at least they are my folks! I'm hoping to get some more business simular to this, so learning how it should work now, will help in the future ...

Any suggestions/ideas/etc welcome ....

Vich

Lets see, raising a kid's about $100K, on the cheap end. If they insist on charging you, just remind them that. Unless they're rolling in $$ and just finding new ways to give you some. Either way, they've got to be proud of your artistic talent.

I know, not the answer you were looking for.

Head in the Clouds

ha? I'm the one charging them!?

ANyway - no they're not rolling in it, but they are insisting on paying me, and, well, I just need to forget that they are my parents and work out what I would charge any old client, and then give them the 'mates rates' once I know how much I would normally charge .... IYKWIM? god how confusing ...

rmann

well, how much did it cost you? (overall) then you'll be able to work it out better?

Glort

Tell them 100bux and a slab of VB and you'll be happy!
Who cares about what the right price is ( not that there is one anyway!)

As for copyright, as if that matters, they commissioned the shots on a commercial basis, the copyright belongs to them, end of story.

If it were private use, wedding, portrait etc, then you own the copyright.

May be different in other parts of the world but that IS how it is here in Oz.

Sam

Your gona charge your parents!!!!!!????????

I am stunned. If I wrote what I really thought, I would be banned from Digital Grin.

Sam

ARKreations

If it was me, I'd shoot it for nothing, retain the ownership myself, let them frame/display/use the images however they want and have them refer buyers to you for print sales. They get what they want and you get to profit from the sale of your work - they can "pay" you by advertising your work for sale.
If they insist on cash payment, then let them simply "buy" a copy of the prints at a substantial discount.

r3t1awr3yd

Sam wrote: »

Your gona charge your parents!!!!!!????????

I am stunned. If I wrote what I really thought, I would be banned from Digital Grin.

Sam

Never know till you try!!

angevin1

Sam wrote: »

Your gona charge your parents!!!!!!????????

I am stunned. If I wrote what I really thought, I would be banned from Digital Grin.

Sam

Exactly!! I'd say...no! Not going to charge you, end of story! here they are, I love you!

Glort

I wonder if the OP was more interested in Moral judgments or answers to his questions?

FWIW, I'd charge my father if he wanted me to do shots for him because he hasn't done a thing for me since I was 12 and moved out of home even though I still make the effort to visit him whenever i am up the country where he lives.

Not everyone has the same "perfect" relationship with their parents and from what the OP said, they are insisting on paying him so it may well be more likley to cause offense by not taking anything than by letting them do something for their Son. I would say it is because they love thier son that they want to give him something for what he did, even if it is just an excuse to help him out without giving him handouts for nothing. Nothing unusual about that in Aussie, or many other cultures.

Pretty poor to pass judgment on a guy without having a clue or any insight to what his relationship is and what they think is right as a family.

Art Scott

ARKreations wrote: »

If it was me, I'd shoot it for nothing, retain the ownership myself, let them frame/display/use the images however they want and have them refer buyers to you for print sales. They get what they want and you get to profit from the sale of your work - they can "pay" you by advertising your work for sale.
If they insist on cash payment, then let them simply "buy" a copy of the prints at a substantial discount.

I kind of agree here...but then I do charge my family for work they want done....not always at my top rate but I do charge them.......what I would do is tell the mto forget about doing the printing and stuff...get it done yourself...this way if you do not like the print you can have it redone....these shots are your artistic work........Have them printed, mated and framed.....charge your parent the cost of this...break even.......on the frame have a nice clear plexi business card holder riveted or screwed to it and place business cards for advertising.......and then you retain the copyright for all the pix.........................

time2smile

I'm not going to suggest a price, but going with the idea of selling the prints as a souvenir, you can put copies in the lobby, its good for you and your parents, advertising, you may make a bundle over time, and your parents will get word of mouth advertising for the cabins when vacationers, family and friends, see the photos hanging on their walls.

angevin1

Glort wrote: »

I wonder if the OP was more interested in Moral judgments or answers to his questions?

FWIW, I'd charge my father if he wanted me to do shots for him because he hasn't done a thing for me since I was 12 and moved out of home even though I still make the effort to visit him whenever i am up the country where he lives.

Not everyone has the same "perfect" relationship with their parents and from what the OP said, they are insisting on paying him so it may well be more likley to cause offense by not taking anything than by letting them do something for their Son. I would say it is because they love thier son that they want to give him something for what he did, even if it is just an excuse to help him out without giving him handouts for nothing. Nothing unusual about that in Aussie, or many other cultures.

Pretty poor to pass judgment on a guy without having a clue or any insight to what his relationship is and what they think is right as a family.

Hi Glort, Don't know at all if you had me or my post in mind, but if you re-read mine, you'll see I passed judgment on no one. Hence the "I" statement versus a "YOU" statement. You are right in that Not everyone has "the same perfect relationship with their parent." And speaking as a grown child of abusive, and alcoholic parents, it was my choice not to grow up and be such an ass as they.

Had the OP asked the same question without the 'parent' part, I'm certain he'd have gotten different responses. But he didn't. And we all have an emotional tie to a parent be it good or bad.

chrisjohnson

angevin1 wrote: »

Hi Glort, Don't know at all if you had me or my post in mind, but if you re-read mine, you'll see I passed judgment on no one. Hence the "I" statement versus a "YOU" statement. You are right in that Not everyone has "the same perfect relationship with their parent." And speaking as a grown child of abusive, and alcoholic parents, it was my choice not to grow up and be such an ass as they.

Had the OP asked the same question without the 'parent' part, I'm certain he'd have gotten different responses. But he didn't. And we all have an emotional tie to a parent be it good or bad.

Yes, this question is quite confused by the parental element and also that the parents run a business. If I wanted to gift my children a nice amount while deducting a nice amount from tax then it might be interesting to pay them from the company, always assuming that they could genuinely provide a service that would pass muster at the accountants.

Basically I see this as a family affair.

As for a commercial rate, should I be asked to travel back and for and shoot artwork, then I would be asking a few thousand dollars depending a bit on how far I had to travel - say three days work. To bring this safely into the tax domain I would have to be a recognized pro photographer which it seems the OP is not. Then we should look at what a local photog might do and many of them are happy to work for a few hundred dollars which the tax people are unlikely to challenge, but then why invite the potential issue in the first place given the family connection - just do it pro-bono and keep it off the books.

For my parents I would do it for free and should they insist, let them pay my out-of-pocket costs in cash or take me out for a meal I might not even want. I imagine that if my relationship with my parents was severely disturbed I might NOT do it in any case. I certainly would not imagine charging them a commercial rate unless they see some advantage to us both to gift me money in this way.

In some in-between scenario I would simply make sure my parents understood that I retain the copyright.

It could be that other people on the camping like the photos sufficiently to want to buy a copy. But seeing the OP does not seem to like the hassle of printing and framing even for his own parents, I can't see this as a serious business opportunity, never mind worrying about how to split the profits.

GerryDavid

For payment I would ask for a home cooked meal. : )

Glort

angevin1 wrote: »

Hi Glort, Don't know at all if you had me or my post in mind, but if you re-read mine, you'll see I passed judgment on no one.

No, I found nothing at all to take issue with in what you said and I agree, unlike others, it was non judgmental in any way.

Chris H

Out of interest I did the same thing for my folks. I wouldn't take any money. They insisted and gave me what they thought was appropriate, I spent it on a meal with them in a posh restaurant.

It's natural that they'd want to give you a leg up, and parents are very good at finding ways to help out their kids. But the flip side is that I like to do things to help out my parents, after all they did all the hard work!

Zerodog

Dude, they are your parents...................that is all I have to say.

zoomer

IF they Insist charge them travel expenses and gas.

Then take them out to dinner with it.

I see Chris H already said this....what he said then.

If you want to do more work like this you can benefit by using their pics in your porfolio of work.