Advices (desperately seekin' for)

judah

Hi all sport guys!
my first sport session today. Just got back home few minutes ago and I'm seekin' for some advices. I went to a nerby street basketball field and was lucky enough to have a friend of mine in one of the team so I didn't have to struggle to ask permit to shoot (I'm still very shy).
Anyway, 250 shots and next to ZERO keepers. You read it right. Next to zero.
First of all, it was almost impossible for me to follow the action during the play. Too fast and I know next to zero about basketball, but was willing to practice a bit on sport photography so.....
I'd like to ask a couple questions:

1. During a basketball (or football or whatever team game for the matter) do you concentrate on one player only for something like 10 shots or you keep an eye on the entire play?

2. If the latter is the case, how in the hell you do it????

Cheers. :

HarveyMushman

judah wrote:

. . . and I know next to zero about basketball . . .

There's your "problem." Knowing where to position yourself in anticipation of a dynamic scene is the key to sports shooting, I think.

judah

HarveyMushman wrote:

There's your "problem." Knowing where to position yourself in anticipation of a dynamic scene is the key to sports shooting, I think.

Thanks Tim. I suspected this was the main problem. Maybe if I attach a couple pictures you can give me some more inputs.

judah

I shot most of them in shutter priority mode, 1/500, ISO100, sitting on fault line. Today is a bit cloudy and rain was coming and goin'. Unfortunately the background is very busy (the court is on a lake shore sorrounded by shops on one side and the harbor on the other) and if I closed in with the zoom the play was too fast for me to follow.

gsgary

judah wrote:

I shot most of them in shutter priority mode, 1/500, ISO100, sitting on fault line. Today is a bit cloudy and rain was coming and goin'. Unfortunately the background is very busy (the court is on a lake shore sorrounded by shops on one side and the harbor on the other) and if I closed in with the zoom the play was too fast for me to follow.

I would shoot manual with the widest aperture my lens would go to or you could go aperture priority 2.8 if you have it to blur the background Al servo center focus and try not to drop below 1/800

judah

gsgary wrote:

I would shoot manual with the widest aperture my lens would go to or you could go aperture priority 2.8 if you have it to blur the background Al servo center focus and try not to drop below 1/800

Hi Gary,
wait wait wait a second here! :
The problem is that my camera (Fujifilm S5600) is not that powerfull. Maximum aperture is 3.5 at widest focal lenght and 3.5 at full zoom. AI servo center what? Forget about it! :
I tried a couple photos at 1/1000 (the max the camera can reach) but (maybe due to my faulty technique) that freezed the action too much for my taste. There was no movement. There was no action at all. All the guys looked like they were posing up in the air! Anyway, another problem I encountered was the veeeeeeeeeeery sloooooooooooooooow autofocus time! Of all the photos I got half of them were so late that I couldn't believe it. There was no way I could point & shoot at the highest point of a jump. But again that might be my lack of experience with this kind of shooting. Thanks again for your suggestion.
Oh wait, almost forgot. An interesting thing I discovered while shooting this first sport session. I wasn't lookin at all at the so common sporty shots like dunks or something along that way. As usual I was lookin' for faces, hands, people if you know what I mean. That must means something. Everytime I shoot I always look for this kind of stuff. Don't know, maybe I'm a protrai photographer deep in my soul! :

Cheers.

System

then try aperture priority at 3.5 if it will allow you to and see what you get-it very well might blur the background some-

keep practicing-the shots you've shown I like-particularly the one with the guy palming the ball-

like the monuments, these need a 'pop'-


best
george

judah

gefillmore wrote:

then try aperture priority at 3.5 if it will allow you to and see what you get-it very well might blur the background some-

keep practicing-the shots you've shown I like-particularly the one with the guy palming the ball-

like the monuments, these need a 'pop'-


best
george

Thanks George (are you chasing me??? :)
I'll try in aperture priority and see what happens. The guys are there almost everyweekend so it's no problem to replicate the crime scene. I know it might sounds very rude but would you mind showing me what you mean with pop on ofe of the latest photo I submitted here on DGring? I'd like to understand you better. :
Thanks again.

Cheers.

System

since I'm probably more than twice your age (three times by looking at your avatar) and am probably older than your parents, no, don't think I'll go 'round chasing you-

be glad to show you re the pop, but won't be able to 'til I get back to my desktop-

judah

gefillmore wrote:

then try aperture priority at 3.5 if it will allow you to and see what you get-it very well might blur the background some-

Hi George,
I was sure some of the shots were at aperture priority and found this one.
Here are the fine details about it: F3.4, 1/500, ISO100, 117mm equivalent focal lenght.
And there was now way to blur the background. I'm sure I was doin' something wrong, but don't understand what. But your suggestion is absolutely spot on. Keep practicing!

judah

gefillmore wrote:

since I'm probably more than twice your age (three times by looking at your avatar) and am probably older than your parents, no, don't think I'll go 'round chasing you-

be glad to show you re the pop, but won't be able to 'til I get back to my desktop-

Sorry, it was meant to be funny. BTW, I'm 27 and will be father for the second time within a couple weeks. No prob if you don't have time, I was just tryin to understand what you meant with "pop". Thanks again. :

System

hey, I didn't think you were trying to be mean-

I was just giving you a curmudgeonly smartass reply-

and it's not that I don't have time-

it's that I'm on my laptop at work and don't have access to my desktop with ps on it, and will get to it when I'm able to-

george

ps I am more than twice your age-

System

take a look at davidto's 'pop' tutorial under the 'how to' at the banner here-

it will show you what I mean by 'pop'-

not sure how the instructions will go with ps elements, though-

photofreak

I liked your shots ....but....see, I'm a portrait photographer.:): If you have Adobe you could blur the background a bit by first outlining the player, going to filters, gauissen blur and tweak it just a bit.
I think they are great shots...
Mandi

judah wrote:

Hi Gary,
wait wait wait a second here! :
The problem is that my camera (Fujifilm S5600) is not that powerfull. Maximum aperture is 3.5 at widest focal lenght and 3.5 at full zoom. AI servo center what? Forget about it! :
I tried a couple photos at 1/1000 (the max the camera can reach) but (maybe due to my faulty technique) that freezed the action too much for my taste. There was no movement. There was no action at all. All the guys looked like they were posing up in the air! Anyway, another problem I encountered was the veeeeeeeeeeery sloooooooooooooooow autofocus time! Of all the photos I got half of them were so late that I couldn't believe it. There was no way I could point & shoot at the highest point of a jump. But again that might be my lack of experience with this kind of shooting. Thanks again for your suggestion.
Oh wait, almost forgot. An interesting thing I discovered while shooting this first sport session. I wasn't lookin at all at the so common sporty shots like dunks or something along that way. As usual I was lookin' for faces, hands, people if you know what I mean. That must means something. Everytime I shoot I always look for this kind of stuff. Don't know, maybe I'm a protrai photographer deep in my soul! :

Cheers.

judah

gefillmore wrote:

take a look at davidto's 'pop' tutorial under the 'how to' at the banner here-

it will show you what I mean by 'pop'-

not sure how the instructions will go with ps elements, though-

Sorry George I didn't understand you were in sarcastic mode on :. I'm really willing to learn as much as possible I didn't mean to create any problem. I'll take a look at the tutorial and next time I'll try and follow your advices. Thanks again for your help, this forum is really one of the best thing you can find on the net.
Oh, is The GIMP a nice software for editing? Don't know why but I find it much easier and straight forward than Photoshop. :

judah

photofreak wrote:

I liked your shots ....but....see, I'm a portrait photographer.:): If you have Adobe you could blur the background a bit by first outlining the player, going to filters, gauissen blur and tweak it just a bit.
I think they are great shots...
Mandi

Thanks Mandi! I'll try. :

System

no problem here-

I always try to help when asked, when I can-

do a search on gimp here on the forum; I believe it's been discussed here several months ago-

and anytime anybody suggests something to try, say, background blur, check out google and include photoshop elements; you might find some basic tutorials on the specific subject-

Steve Cavigliano

Judah,
Yes, you have to pretty much concentrate (focus) on one player. Best case maybe a couple of players close to the ball. Makes it easier to be ready when the decisive momemt arrives. Track and obtain focus lock confirmation. Keep doing this until you are ready to release the shutter. I 1/2 press probably 5 times for every shutter release. That also counts the times where I never release the shutter at all

1/500 is a good speed. If you want to show some motion blur, you can slow it down a stop if you so desire. The problem is always going to be your backgrounds. Your camera isn't capable of giving blurry/oof backgrounds when your subjects are so far away. So even wide open you will have a nice deep depth of field The good part of this is, you will have a nice deep DOF. Why is this good? Because with a Dslr and a fast lens the in-focus zone can be a few inches deep. Making it harder to "lock" on to the "right" player and to get the action captured sharply.

So no background blurring, but easier target acquisition and no DOF worries. Pretty much no matter how close your subjects.

I'd suggest standing at the baseline corners (right side as you face the opposite basket) or under the basket. These are usually really good perspectives for action around the basket. You can get the player's face, the ball, action and the basket in the frame.

Steve

BTW, your shots looked decent. Not much action, but they were exposed well and are nice and sharp

System

nice!-

honestly, you've done better than I would do-

that's why I try to shoot still things-

System

System

gsgary

judah wrote:

Hi Gary,
wait wait wait a second here! :
The problem is that my camera (Fujifilm S5600) is not that powerfull. Maximum aperture is 3.5 at widest focal lenght and 3.5 at full zoom. AI servo center what? Forget about it! :
I tried a couple photos at 1/1000 (the max the camera can reach) but (maybe due to my faulty technique) that freezed the action too much for my taste. There was no movement. There was no action at all. All the guys looked like they were posing up in the air! Anyway, another problem I encountered was the veeeeeeeeeeery sloooooooooooooooow autofocus time! Of all the photos I got half of them were so late that I couldn't believe it. There was no way I could point & shoot at the highest point of a jump. But again that might be my lack of experience with this kind of shooting. Thanks again for your suggestion.
Oh wait, almost forgot. An interesting thing I discovered while shooting this first sport session. I wasn't lookin at all at the so common sporty shots like dunks or something along that way. As usual I was lookin' for faces, hands, people if you know what I mean. That must means something. Everytime I shoot I always look for this kind of stuff. Don't know, maybe I'm a protrai photographer deep in my soul! :

Cheers.

I have a similar camera the Fujifilm S7000 it's not good for sport

judah

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Judah,
Yes, you have to pretty much concentrate (focus) on one player. Best case maybe a couple of players close to the ball. Makes it easier to be ready when the decisive momemt arrives. Track and obtain focus lock confirmation. Keep doing this until you are ready to release the shutter. I 1/2 press probably 5 times for every shutter release. That also counts the times where I never release the shutter at all

1/500 is a good speed. If you want to show some motion blur, you can slow it down a stop if you so desire. The problem is always going to be your backgrounds. Your camera isn't capable of giving blurry/oof backgrounds when your subjects are so far away. So even wide open you will have a nice deep depth of field The good part of this is, you will have a nice deep DOF. Why is this good? Because with a Dslr and a fast lens the in-focus zone can be a few inches deep. Making it harder to "lock" on to the "right" player and to get the action captured sharply.

So no background blurring, but easier target acquisition and no DOF worries. Pretty much no matter how close your subjects.

I'd suggest standing at the baseline corners (right side as you face the opposite basket) or under the basket. These are usually really good perspectives for action around the basket. You can get the player's face, the ball, action and the basket in the frame.

Steve

BTW, your shots looked decent. Not much action, but they were exposed well and are nice and sharp

Hi Steve,
thanks a million for your suggestions. I knew compact camera couldn't blur the background as easily due to their smaller sensor but thought that a tad bit was possible. This morning I went out again and tested a bit more setting but again there was no way to get a smaller depth of field. I kept falling in that same area with huuuuuge dept of field. I have a shot from yesterday session that had a bell tower, around 250m away perfectly in focus with the player that was standing no more than 3m away from me, and I was shooting (lookin @ the EXIF) at F3.2! Wow.
See that all you guys are so kind with newbies like me, I have a couple more question specifically related to sport shooting. I have three focus mode in my camera: Manual (absolutely useless, maybe for still life or portrait), S-AF (single or shot, don't remember) and C-AF (continuos, some sort of tracking is goin' on with this mode). I shot the entire session from yesterday in S-AF and the camera was awfully slow to lock on focus. I wonder if I have to use the continuos autofocus setting (C-AF). And what about continuos shooting mode? I have few possibilities here: first 3 frames, last three frames and continuos (untill the buffer's full). I suspect that this mode should be very usefull for sport shooting but the continous mode is very slow (due to the very small buffer I guess). The last three frames mode is not that bad, I think is in the neighborhood of 0.4fps and wonder if I should use this, especially if the action is very near the basket (rebounds, dunks, shooting and so on).
The last tough is: I was shooting street basket, hence the guys were playin in half the field only. Last night I watched an NBA match on satellite (I'm a real pain in the ass when I want to learn something, so I went straight to the pro games to learn a bit about the whole basketball thing) and discovered that the pro hold the ball much longer than street players. I mean, the play was muuuuuuucho faster down on the street than the one I saw on telly. Am I way off here or got it right?
To end this very usefull (at least for me) thread, I learned that the more you know about the sport you're shooting, the easier it gets. Last weekend I was on lake shore to shot some surfing and I didn't have any problem with it, but I've been in surfing & sailing for some years and I knew the action before they happened. Yesteday there was times when I predicted the ball to go right and it went left and I found myself waving around like a lunatic @ 300mm searching for the missing ball!

Thanks again to all of you.

Cheers. :

PS: before shooting the basketball series I was having an icecream in a shop at the harbor and found a couple flyers from various activity that will happen in July and August. There will be a Skate/MX/Roller contest around the 20th and plan to be there with my camera. I just discovered that there are lots of opportunity to grab if you really want to. I'm a very happy newbie!

judah

gsgary wrote:

I have a similar camera the Fujifilm S7000 it's not good for sport

Thanks Gary, that makes me less worried about my technique! I'm not in a position to buy a proper DSLR right now and I'm using this camera to learn as much as possible. I'm tryin' to figure out if I have a good eye first of all and will concentrate on equipment as soon as my pocket allow. I don't care what the shots looks like (sort of) as long as I understand what's goin' on and whether is my fault or camera's.

Cheers. :

judah

gefillmore wrote:

nice!-

honestly, you've done better than I would do-

that's why I try to shoot still things-

. Thanks George! BTW, I read the tutorial you pointed me at and understood a bit what you meant with "pop". Sadly I discovered that my LCD monitor is way off calibration and following some advices found on the net was impossible to bring it at a proper calibration. Next week I'll have a new PC coming with a new 19" LCD, hopefully this will perform better than the one I got now. That's why I don't feel very mcuh like editing a lot on my shots 'cause I really don't know if what I'm lookin' at is true to reality or not. Will see what happens. :