NY Times Photography Q & A

Andy

You might find this interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/business/media/asktheeditors.html?ex=1153281600&en=9d247c104873d700&ei=5070&emc=eta1

wxwax

Good stuff. But I didn't like the elitist Podunk remark. Talent is talent, I would have thought.

Art Scott

Andy thanks...a good read

wxwax

Not that I'll ever be a pro, but the following is an issue I ponder a great deal - no answer so far.

A. The most important work a young photographer can do is existential. You must figure out what kind of photographer you want to be, what do you want to say and how are you going to do it better than others have done before you.

Nikolai

Thanks, Andy!

Andy wrote:

You might find this interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/business/media/asktheeditors.html?ex=1153281600&en=9d247c104873d700&ei=5070&emc=eta1

Nice read!
Now... how do I get of them press passes?

wxwax

Nikolai wrote:

Nice read!
Now... how do I get of them press passes?

Get a job in the media.

Nikolai

You see, Sid....

wxwax wrote:

Get a job in the media.

I honestly don't think that "me as a photographer" can get anywhere close moneywise to "me as a software developer". Not by far... And not that I'm a crappy shooter - I'm simply a very senior s/w engineer..;-)
However, in software you don't need to have any photo IDs to do what you want to do. Unfortunately, in photography you often do...
I simply want to have a fair playground. Media pros already have a much better gear (which they often do not even have to buy, since the company pays for that), but, be it a cell phone camera or a Hasselblad, you can't take a picture if you don't have line of sight, to which the said pass is often the cure..

wxwax

Nikolai wrote:

I honestly don't think that "me as a photographer" can get anywhere close moneywise to "me as a software developer". Not by far... And not that I'm a crappy shooter - I'm simply a very senior s/w engineer..;-)
However, in software you don't need to have any photo IDs to do what you want to do. Unfortunately, in photography you often do...
I simply want to have a fair playground. Media pros already have a much better gear (which they often do not even have to buy, since the company pays for that), but, be it a cell phone camera or a Hasselblad, you can't take a picture if you don't have line of sight, to which the said pass is often the cure..

You want access for fun. They need it for their jobs. What's fair, is that they're allowed to do their job without being crowded by enthusiastic amateurs like me and you.

Nikolai

Point taken ;-)

wxwax wrote:

You want access for fun. They need it for their jobs. What's fair, is that they're allowed to do their job without being crowded by enthusiastic amateurs like me and you.

But I still want one...

flyingpylon

Nikolai wrote:

But I still want one...

From what I've gathered, there are at least 5 ways around most access problems.

- Create a media outlet and request credentials

- Pay for access (I don't mean buying media credentials illegally)

- Establish personal contacts at venues or organizations

- Sneak into restricted areas

- Be more patient, persistant, and creative than other shooters in publicly-accessible areas

It's definitely a challenge. But the interesting thing to me is that in many cases, the "official media" are quite lazy. They stroll in a few minutes before some peak action, snap a few mundane shots from their prime location, and they're done. Then in the next few days/weeks you see what they shot and it's some of the most mundane stuff ever, whereas a creative, enthusiastic "amateur" could have kicked their butts.

Bottom line is that if you really work at it, get to know how certain events flow in terms of when people will be where at what times, etc., and get a little creative you can often get some great shots, from perspectives that won't show up in the newspapers/magazines, etc. Think of the tagline from Survivor... "Outwit. Outlast. Outplay."

wxwax

Pylon, you've gathered wrong.

Seefutlung

wxwax wrote:

You want access for fun. They need it for their jobs. What's fair, is that they're allowed to do their job without being crowded by enthusiastic amateurs like me and you.

I used to be a photo journalist ... I and other 'working press' would get ... ahhh ... upset, by "enthusiastic amateurs" who got passes from their uncle who knows someone who knows someone ...

The enthusiastic amateurs didn't know where to be or how to be and generally just getting in everybodies way and on occassion mucking up your shot.

Seefutlung

Nikolai wrote:

I honestly don't think that "me as a photographer" can get anywhere close moneywise to "me as a software developer". Not by far... And not that I'm a crappy shooter - I'm simply a very senior s/w engineer..;-)

I got out of the biz for money ... just wasn't there in news. I'd be doing okay, but not six figures. And things started to get annoyingly repetitious.

But a press photog is the best job in the world for a kid. Man what a ride!

PS- I've been shooting with a 35y/o art director for an advertising firm. He soooo badly wants to be a photo journalist. We've had many a conversation on the subject and he's changed his mind ... he can't afford the drop in annual wages and starting from the bottom.

Seefutlung

Nikolai wrote:

But I still want one...

ahhh the forbidden fruit ... another way is to befriend a press photog ... I used to take my friends to many events under my credentials.

wxwax

Seefutlung wrote:

I used to be a photo journalist ... I and other 'working press' would get ... ahhh ... upset, by "enthusiastic amateurs" who got passes from their uncle who knows someone who knows someone ...

The enthusiastic amateurs didn't know where to be or how to be and generally just getting in everybodies way and on occassion mucking up your shot.

TylerW

wxwax wrote:

You want access for fun. They need it for their jobs. What's fair, is that they're allowed to do their job without being crowded by enthusiastic amateurs like me and you.

Here's the line that I walk on both sides of. I'm a professional videographer, and with teh events I have credentials for, its crowded enough with the other professionals I share space with. The event I was at yesterday had about 40 cameras in the room, and it was really tough trying to keep any of them out of my shot. I couldn't imagine working like that if everyone were able to get access. On the other hand, its not material I'm especially interested in shooting photographically, and there are a number of events that I'd love to get credentialls for. But I don't want to make lives harder for the folks that are there for their bread & bills money, because I'm just there for fun.

The upshot is that my day job gives me a lot of experience conducting myself in a professional fashion in a n event shoot, which helps grease the rails when I'm trying to appeal to some that I'm trying to get credentials from.

wxwax

Somewhat similar history.

Much as I want access, I'm mindful that I'd be in the way of people earning a living.

Seamus

Andy wrote:

You might find this interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/business/media/asktheeditors.html?ex=1153281600&en=9d247c104873d700&ei=5070&emc=eta1

great read andy, thanks

Nikolai

This is all sweet, fine and dandy

wxwax wrote:

Much as I want access, I'm mindful that I'd be in the way of people earning a living.

.. but what about the situation when there is nobody from the press corp on the location at the moment?
Or there is one or two, but the location is large enough so there is no way you'll be in their way?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking for the pass to the press conference at the White House. I respect the guys who do their jobs (unless they prove themselves unworthy of such respect) and I would know better than to obstruct their view. However, quite often I find myself alone at the scene with no actual press around - and no press pass to get to a vacant prime location...

Sorry for rumbling :

gus

Nik ..i want to fly an Apache AH-64 & i keep asking but they wont let me do it.

As for pro photogs ? Ive met good & bad. A good friend publishes for a national racing mag & he recons sometimes if they had an original photography thought it would make the front cover.

Seamus

Nikolai wrote:

.. but what about the situation when there is nobody from the press corp on the location at the moment?
Or there is one or two, but the location is large enough so there is no way you'll be in their way?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking for the pass to the press conference at the White House. I respect the guys who do their jobs (unless they prove themselves unworthy of such respect) and I would know better than to obstruct their view. However, quite often I find myself alone at the scene with no actual press around - and no press pass to get to a vacant prime location...

Sorry for rumbling :

to get a pass you need to show that pictures you take will be published. Some venues look for a letter of commission from a newspaper or magazine. If you are freelance they look for previous examples of published work. You don't say what events you are looking to get a pass for?

Nikolai

Seamus,

Seamus wrote:

to get a pass you need to show that pictures you take will be published. Some venues look for a letter of commission from a newspaper or magazine. If you are freelance they look for previous examples of published work. You don't say what events you are looking to get a pass for?

Thanks for pitching in:-)

One such example would be a concert in our local Civic Artrs Center I shot a while ago. There was (and still is:-) a prime spot on the 2d floor balcony, rather close to the stage (no chairs there, so nobody would get blocked). Security was polite, but adamant about press pass. Eventually they let a guy from a local newspaper in, he used the spot for 10 minutes or so and took off. I was there for 2 hours (my kids were playing), and I had to shoot from far-less-that-optimal locations..

Something like that... :

Seefutlung

Nikolai wrote:

.. but what about the situation when there is nobody from the press corp on the location at the moment?
Or there is one or two, but the location is large enough so there is no way you'll be in their way?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking for the pass to the press conference at the White House. I respect the guys who do their jobs (unless they prove themselves unworthy of such respect) and I would know better than to obstruct their view. However, quite often I find myself alone at the scene with no actual press around - and no press pass to get to a vacant prime location...

Sorry for rumbling :

Passes are issued according to importance/size of media outlet (AP gets a pass before T-Oaks Weekly News) and size of venue. The T-Oaks Weekly is more likely to get passes for the LA County Fair than the OJ trial.

So .... If you really want to cover some event that is either big and/or not on everybody's radar ... then mosey up to your local (small-ish) paper ... they are always looking for a crack photog for odd ball times (weekends and evening) or for free/next to free services. It might be a a quid pro quo thing... you get the access you want and they get cheap/yet nice photos of an event that they normally wouldn't cover.

Now ... You got to get together a portfolio/stringbook.

Nikolai

Thanks, SFL!

Seefutlung wrote:

Passes are issued according to importance/size of media outlet (AP gets a pass before T-Oaks Weekly News) and size of venue. The T-Oaks Weekly is more likely to get passes for the LA County Fair than the OJ trial.

So .... If you really want to cover some event that is either big and/or not on everybody's radar ... then mosey up to your local (small-ish) paper ... they are always looking for a crack photog for odd ball times (weekends and evening) or for free/next to free services. It might be a a quid pro quo thing... you get the access you want and they get cheap/yet nice photos of an event that they normally wouldn't cover.

Now ... You got to get together a portfolio/stringbook.

It's a good idea!
Start small, get published, etc.:-)
I may wanna try this..

Seamus

To give you an example of what I mean Nik, I took this pic last year:

.

I didn't have a media pass for the race, I took the photo through a fence. I emailed the pic to the local newspaper and it was printed on the front page of their sports section.

Roll forward a month and I snapped this pic:

Again, I didn't have a media pass, in fact I was ejected from the pit lane after taking this pic



I emailed this pic (and a few more) to every bike magazine. This pic got a tiny corner in a big bike magazine.

Armed with these pics I applied for, and got, a media pass for a local race track. I target the smaller provincial papers and send them pics of local riders. I'm not going to put maczippy out of business but it is a good hobby that sometimes pays for the petrol and tea.

I found that email addresses of newspaper editors or picture desks were readily available on the web. I would reckon on getting 1 reply to 10 emails. I have found that emailing a link of a pic is better practice. It doesn't clog up the inbox of the recipient for what are unsolicited pictures.

I hope this helps,

Seamus.

Nikolai

Very helpful!

Seamus wrote:

To give you an example of what I mean Nik, ...
I hope this helps,

Seamus.

So you and Gary-SeeFutLong are on the same page:-)
And this also seems to work IRL :-)
That's reassuring!

Seamus

Nikolai wrote:

So you and Gary-SeeFutLong are on the same page:-)
And this also seems to work IRL :-)
That's reassuring!

I keep in touch with people who give me media passes. I applied for, and got, a media pass for the motorbike show in Dublin this year.

I didn't turn up for 20 minutes, take a few snaps and disappear. I went on both days and shot everything.

I emailed the organisers thanking them and included a link to the gallery. They gave me a spot on the website:

Irish bike show

Another small step that may help me to get accreditation for future events.

Seamus.

Nikolai

Seamus,

Seamus wrote:

I keep in touch with people who give me media passes. I applied for, and got, a media pass for the motorbike show in Dublin this year.

I didn't turn up for 20 minutes, take a few snaps and disappear. I went on both days and shot everything.

I emailed the organisers thanking them and included a link to the gallery. They gave me a spot on the website:

Irish bike show

Another small step that may help me to get accreditation for future events.

Seamus.

I usually follow this pattern, too. If I go, I stay:-)
What I need is to get in touch with "da ppl"

Thanks again, much obliged!

Seefutlung

Nikolai wrote:

I usually follow this pattern, too. If I go, I stay:-)

Not me ... I'd go ... get the defining shot ... then look for the food. If I spot another press photog I might go back and hang just to make sure I don't get one upped ... then head back for more food or a local watering hole.

Hey N, if you are real serious about this ... feel free to contact me direct, even if its for someone to bounce ideas off. What's real cool, after you get in with a paper as a regular/part-timer/stringer you could qualify for PP License plates ... now we're talking cool ...

wxwax

Seefutlung wrote:

PP License plates ... now we're talking cool ...

Is that an LA thing? Never heard of that.

rosselliot

good stuff....
surprising they don't shoot in RAW....however I guess jpeg is a heck of a lot easier.
and if the printing plates keep moving.....GET A BETTER PRINTING PRESS! haha. they're not supposed to move, so why put up with it?! what, has the warranty ran out?!


- Ross