How do you use smugmug?

videoopp

Hi All,

I guess there always has to be a first post. I am new to smugmug and Digital Grin. I am loving what I see and am full of enthusiasm about the different ways that it may work for me. This looks like a great community and super forum. I hope that you don't mind a few questions from a "newbie".

I am curious to hear from others as to how they are using smugmug to generate income. I can see it as a great place to upload images from an event for all participants and interested parties to come and order prints, but are their other ways that are working for you?

I notice some have gallaries of scenics and still life. Does anyone buy prints of that? And what would they use that for? A wall hanging? How many sales would you get of this? I can understand if smugmug allowed for a system of selling a digital download of the image for use as stock for this kind of photography, but I would be surprised if many people just buy prints of still life and scenics. Am I wrong? Are you using this as more of an easy way to display your work?

One last question has to do with model releases or lack thereof at events. Can you come back from a wedding or a church event like Vacation Bible School and post images of faces that you didn't get model releases for? Is it somehow OK because you are just displaying for the purposes of proofing, not selling as stock?

I gots questions!

Mike Lane

videoopp wrote:

Hi All,

I guess there always has to be a first post. I am new to smugmug and Digital Grin. I am loving what I see and am full of enthusiasm about the different ways that it may work for me. This looks like a great community and super forum. I hope that you don't mind a few questions from a "newbie".

Welcome to the fray

videoopp wrote:

I am curious to hear from others as to how they are using smugmug to generate income. I can see it as a great place to upload images from an event for all participants and interested parties to come and order prints, but are their other ways that are working for you?

I notice some have gallaries of scenics and still life. Does anyone buy prints of that? And what would they use that for? A wall hanging? How many sales would you get of this? I can understand if smugmug allowed for a system of selling a digital download of the image for use as stock for this kind of photography, but I would be surprised if many people just buy prints of still life and scenics. Am I wrong? Are you using this as more of an easy way to display your work?

Lots of us don't really generate an income from selling our photos per se. I generate a few bucks here and there, but certainly nothing all that spectacular. The sales that I've generated so far have mostly come from events that I've shot for people. I've sold a handfull of photos that have been a surprise. A few I suspect were either just google searching or perhaps smugmug searching and one was after I hung my work on display at a local Borders (and gave away nearly 300 biz cards ). So I'd say you're right, just hanging your pics on smugmug waiting for them to be printed doesn't by itself generate income. As I understand it, those who make the most on smugmug do so because they are event shooters. Weddings, races, portraits, etc, etc, etc.

What's been great for me has been smugmug's great searching abilities. Recently one graphic designer was doing a project for a condo in Seattle overlooking Lake Union. She looked on Getty and iStock Photo and realized that there was fireworks shots but no fireworks over lake union shots. So she searched smugmug and my site came up immediately. Turns out the customer wanted a different direction. But I made a great contact with a graphic design team in seattle which is great!

videoopp wrote:

One last question has to do with model releases or lack thereof at events. Can you come back from a wedding or a church event like Vacation Bible School and post images of faces that you didn't get model releases for? Is it somehow OK because you are just displaying for the purposes of proofing, not selling as stock?

I gots questions!

Uh, er... No idea. I'd like to understand this better myself

System

videoopp wrote:

Hi All,

Can you come back from a church event like Vacation Bible School and post images of faces that you didn't get model releases for?

You will most likely burn in hell.

Andy

videoopp wrote:

One last question has to do with model releases or lack thereof at events. Can you come back from a wedding or a church event like Vacation Bible School and post images of faces that you didn't get model releases for? Is it somehow OK because you are just displaying for the purposes of proofing, not selling as stock?

I gots questions!

Have a look here:

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

is a good start.

videoopp

Andy wrote:

Have a look here:

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

is a good start.

Excellent read. Thanks. Although, it did not specifically address the issue of posting images on a site like smugmug for people to come to easily view and order prints. It would seem that the general implication of the article is that because it is not for commercial use, not mass produced or distributed, not used in a way that would give the appearance that the individual is endorsing a product, idea, religion or political affiliation, that it is OK to put these images up for people to come view and order prints. Is that how most users of Smugmug understand it? I would love to hear from some wedding photographers. I have never been to a wedding where I have been asked to sign a model release. I assume that this has not been traditionally required because it was primarily for the use of the wedding party only. But having the images up in a gallery like Smugmug, does change things a little because, now there is a more public "distribution" of the images as well as an opportunity for more people to buy, where the photographer presumably is making a profit on every order. Fair use? Service?

I couldn't tell if Truth was just being funny, or if he/she really thinks there may be an issue here. I have been in the industry for about 15 years now and I have met some people that have very strong opinions about these issues. I personally hold many of the opinions mentioned in the article, but the application to the concept of a web gallery for ordering prints is kind of new to me and I was/am interested to hear how others are working with this.

If you use Smug mug to post your images of a wedding shoot or soccor game, are you getting releases?

Thanks for your input.

Andy

videoopp wrote:

If you use Smug mug to post your images of a wedding shoot or soccor game, are you getting releases?

I took the colors out of your post, makes it easier to read, thanks.

No, I do not get releases in these cases. For the church thing, you'd have no issue, likely, if you are not going to use the images for commercial gain.

photofreak

videoopp wrote:

Excellent read. Thanks. Although, it did not specifically address the issue of posting images on a site like smugmug for people to come to easily view and order prints. It would seem that the general implication of the article is that because it is not for commercial use, not mass produced or distributed, not used in a way that would give the appearance that the individual is endorsing a product, idea, religion or political affiliation, that it is OK to put these images up for people to come view and order prints. Is that how most users of Smugmug understand it? I would love to hear from some wedding photographers. I have never been to a wedding where I have been asked to sign a model release. I assume that this has not been traditionally required because it was primarily for the use of the wedding party only. But having the images up in a gallery like Smugmug, does change things a little because, now there is a more public "distribution" of the images as well as an opportunity for more people to buy, where the photographer presumably is making a profit on every order. Fair use? Service?

I couldn't tell if Truth was just being funny, or if he/she really thinks there may be an issue here. I have been in the industry for about 15 years now and I have met some people that have very strong opinions about these issues. I personally hold many of the opinions mentioned in the article, but the application to the concept of a web gallery for ordering prints is kind of new to me and I was/am interested to hear how others are working with this.

If you use Smug mug to post your images of a wedding shoot or soccor game, are you getting releases?

Thanks for your input.

Welcome to Digital Grin and Smugmug,
I'll put my two cents in here...I do weddings, portraits, charity events, races, etc. The only time I had a client sign a release was because they were professionals in their field. I used their images on a brochure and had them sign the release to use it. Most people are very cool about it and in fact, love that they are on "the internet!!"
Robbie Kneivel came to one of our races and did his jump. Those photos are posted on my site but there is nothing indicating who it is and there was no "advertising" on my part involving his name. I think I'm in the clear on that one. But, as far as what you are talking about...I don't have people sign releases. I will mention, however that I might use their photo in my advertising. This usually thrills them.
My daughter has a kid in her class that does theater and, I think has been in a commercial or two. I would definitely have him sign a release if he were ever to be in any shots of mine just to cover my bases.
I don't know if I've been any help at all...just passing on how I do it...
Good luck and again, welcome. You will find this is an incredible place to be containing so much helpful information. If Andy can't get to you, there are many who can answer...and if we are wrong in our posts...he will gently let us know.:D
Mandi

videoopp

Mandi,

Thanks for your comments. It is probably my fault for asking two questions in one thread, but I am also very interested to hear how other photographers are using the smugmug service. Are most of you using it a simply an easy way to show your work, or are some of you actually using it as a proofing and ordering center. And if so, how is it working out for you?

I can certianly see it as an excellent way, in theroy, to shoot an event and pass out cards for people to come visit and order. Kind of like "shoot it and forget it!" But do the people come? How about for weddings, family sittings, grads, schools, etc. Does it work?

Andy

videoopp wrote:

But do the people come?

Sure. But *you* have to get them there. Cards at the event, with specific links to your site/gallery. Keywording, to make searching easier. Lots of other tips in my pro tips thread.

photofreak

videoopp wrote:

Mandi,

Thanks for your comments. It is probably my fault for asking two questions in one thread, but I am also very interested to hear how other photographers are using the smugmug service. Are most of you using it a simply an easy way to show your work, or are some of you actually using it as a proofing and ordering center. And if so, how is it working out for you?

I can certianly see it as an excellent way, in theroy, to shoot an event and pass out cards for people to come visit and order. Kind of like "shoot it and forget it!" But do the people come? How about for weddings, family sittings, grads, schools, etc. Does it work?

One of the incredibly cool things about Smugmug is the "stat" page. You can see how many times your images are viewed. You can use this to your advantage. When uploading my photos, I don't go in and "logo" every one or, take out every blemish. I wait to see which photos they are viewing the most. Then I'll go in and spend some time on the photo. After uploading the "enhanced" photo, I have made a sale everytime.
Another incredible feature is the right click protect or watermarking of your photos. This is a must if you are planning to make any money at all.
One of my galleries contains my price page. This is the gallery I pay more attention to and mostly to the "large view" number. I have not "right click" protected this gallery so, it is printable. Easy for the customer.
Mine isn't a "click it and forget it" kind of thing. I chose Smugmug because it allows me and my customers to view their images online in their own gallery. They are excited by this. They also have the option of having it password protected. Many many wonderful things at Smugmug.
I am a portrait photographer who does weddings, events, senior portraits, family portraits. This has proven to be an incredible venue for my business. The customer, as well as their out of town relatives, can view their images online, email me with an order and, wait for their product.
Last month, I got a job that was very profitable because the person found me online...they found me online because of my site at Smugmug, which was created to accomodate my customer. Build it and they will come...:D
While Smugmug gives you the option of ordering prints directly through them, I've not used that portion of the service. I should try it...I was working with my lab for several years prior to signing up with Smugmug. I stayed with what I felt comfortable with.
Hope I answered some of your questions...or did I just ramble :snore
Mandi
www.mandraleephotography.com

JimM

I use only Smugmug for taking orders of prints and for showing proofs, but of events I shoot and portraits I am asked to take. I work out shoots I am asked to take like this: an up front sitting fee, then they can order whatever prints they like online. I have found I have gotten orders from not only the people that paid me the sitting fee, but other family members as well.

I only print through Smugmug. I am very happy with the print quality and I do not have to worry about fullfillment.

I have not sold a picture off of SM to anyone that did not come to my site looking for a photo. I don't have many artistic galleries though.