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Q: Pricing digital download.
flyingdutchie
Registered Users Posts: 1,286 Major grins
Hello fellow smugmuggers,
Now that digital downloads are implemented in Smugmug, i'm wondering how to price these downloads.
For example for 'personal downloads':
- Would it be prudent to just price them accordingly to my regular print-sizes (e.g. take the price of a comparable print-size and deduct my costs for printing)?
- If so, what are comparable print-sizes? (download-size versus print-size)?
- Or is a totally different pricing scheme more effective?
For 'commercial downloads':
- Its seems wise not to set prices for these option, but instead negotiate a price with the buyer. Or am i mistaken?
Thanks!
Update:
These are the download sizes (besides the original):
Low-Res (1Mpix)’,
‘Hi-Res (4Mpix)’
Is the MPix number indicating JPEG quality or the estimated pixel-size (WidthxHeight)?
-- Anton Spaans.
Now that digital downloads are implemented in Smugmug, i'm wondering how to price these downloads.
For example for 'personal downloads':
- Would it be prudent to just price them accordingly to my regular print-sizes (e.g. take the price of a comparable print-size and deduct my costs for printing)?
- If so, what are comparable print-sizes? (download-size versus print-size)?
- Or is a totally different pricing scheme more effective?
For 'commercial downloads':
- Its seems wise not to set prices for these option, but instead negotiate a price with the buyer. Or am i mistaken?
Thanks!
Update:
These are the download sizes (besides the original):
Low-Res (1Mpix)’,
‘Hi-Res (4Mpix)’
Is the MPix number indicating JPEG quality or the estimated pixel-size (WidthxHeight)?
-- Anton Spaans.
I can't grasp the notion of time.
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
0
Comments
... this is different... Any guidelines, standards, real life examples to be followed ?
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1097113
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Anyways..and I know that everyone has differing thoughts on what is "fair", etc.
I thought our priority would be of selling prints. D/load discourages them to buy prints. D'l also allows them to go and print them on their own. However, I do see this as a big plus, as I'm sure everyone gets those requests for an emailed version, etc. But I just want to be fair to the customer and myself.
In my case, I'm fairly cheap and charge $2/$5/$8. I'd like to offer the digital download, but what is fair to the customer and myself? It's easy to take a 4mp photo and make nice 8x10's. Should we price the d'l (hi-res) in between the cost of a 5x7 and 8x10? or above? What about the low res? Would something between the 4x6 and 5x7 be a fair guideline?
As in. low res in my case would be roughly $3.50 and the hi res would be $6.50... I won't offer an original if its over 4mp.
I think I've rambled on enough and probably confused myself more too.. eesh.
I have had a few customers ask about digital sales. So I setup 1 gallery as a test for a customer that just asked the other day about getting files. I set the pricing as follows: 1mb $2 4mb $10 Orig $20
I think these prices are reasonable if not cheap. 1mb file = desktop wallpaper. 4mb = customer unlimited 8x10. Original = whatever size customer wants up to 24x36. So the file may reduce print sales, since most of my sales seem to be multiple sizes.
Will see if there is any interest before I open up more galleries.
Steve G
http://www.gouldphoto.com
For 2x3 prints (most DSLRs)
1MPixels (not MByte... if i am correct): about 800 x 1200 pixels
4MPixels : about 1600 x 2400 pixels.
Original: anything..
If you use print-dpi of 300, that would be (closest largest regular sized pic):
1MPixels: 4x6 print.
4MPixels: 8x10/8x12 print.
But i found out that a print-dpi around 100 gives decent quality as well:
1MPixels: 8x10/8x12 print.
4MPixels: 16x24 print.
I also wonder:
What JPEG quality is downloaded for 1MPixels and 4MPixels (quality number ranging from 1 through 12)?
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
In the past when I've been asked for digital image, I've charged them my 8x10 price and explained/verified that it's just for their use (digital frame, make a collage, etc) and that they're not printing a copy for everyone else on the team.
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
I guess I'm looking at this from a different perspective. If I make digital downloads available, they will be more expensive than a comparable print. Probably considerably more.
My reasoning: It's called buying the rights.
1 - They can make unlimted prints.
2 - They can use the image(s) in multiple places.
3 - Each use of my image(s) is worth something to me.
4 - To be hardcore, if they want multiple use of my image(s) they should pay a premium or invest in the equipment, learn how to take pictures, and go take their own.
You are not just selling a digital download. You are renting your equipment and an operator to them. It is worth something too.
Even film photographers charge extra for the negatives.
Am I wrong? Is that the wrong way to look at it? I'm willing to listen.
http://jburtphotos.com
http://jburtphotos.smugmug.com
Basic but makin' changes
However, thinking on the reality side of things.
If one were to purchase a simple 4x6, scan it in, they also could print unlimited copies for cheap.
So. To me, pricing this is correctly is of some importance. Too high, and no extra sales to those that just don't want to buy a print. Too low, and you get taken advantage of on prints.
Uggh. I thought of making it a $5 for the 1mp and much higher (say $20) for the 4mp. I mean, getting to the "real" side of things again. Why would someone want a 4mp size if they WEREN'T going to make unlimited prints?
This is how I'm thinking too. But I'm still not sure what I would charge, and if I would make digital downloads available right away, or after a certain $ amount purchased in prints.???
Life Imprints by Kim
So, i'm really curious what other peoples experiences are in pricing digital downloads.
I tried to Google for some info on this, but to no avail...
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
Are they going to use it to promote their business?
Are they going to use it in advertising to promote their friend's business? Their client's business?
Are they going to use it to print marketing materials?
Are they going to turn around and SELL it themselves?
Will you be adding your logo to the digital file and require that it remain intact?
Are they going to pay you $20 and turn around and make 30 prints for their closest friends instead of ordering 30 prints from you? (Yes, they can scan in the print, but unless they are very good and have a scanner, software and some skills of their own, it's not likely to be as nice as your prints - and it will require additional money and effort on their part to accomplish this).
I know that people will find a way to rip off our work no matter what types of protection we put in place, but I don't think we should make it any easier for them.
Mary
Here's my view from being a customer. I was skiing last winter. There were photographers taking pics of people going off one of the jumps with a sign posted about where you could go to see the photos. I noted the time of day (that's how you find your photos) and we went to look at the photos at the end of the day.
I found a pretty good photo of me catching some air. Since I'm the photographer in the family, I had plenty of good skiing pics of the rest of the family, but none of me. My first thought was to order an 8x10, scan it in and then I could add it to my digital album like the pics of the rest of the family. Ahh, but they had a price for buying the digital file that was about double the price of an 8x10. If it had been more than double, I probably wouldn't have bought the digital file. I didn't have that much planned for the image that I could justify that. But, at just double the price, the added flexibility and quality of getting the original file was enough to justify spending double (in this case, the file was priced at $25) and then I could make any prints I wanted.
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http://jburtphotos.com
http://jburtphotos.smugmug.com
Basic but makin' changes
I see that as reasonable at the venue. Quik & Dirty burnit to a CD with the proper release signed. and awayyago...
I just don't see a lower than print price for a non-commercial use DD as worth it. Or a commercial DD for that matter.
http://jburtphotos.com
http://jburtphotos.smugmug.com
Basic but makin' changes
If I do a wedding package and the customer has already spent x amount of dollars, I can see selling the downloads. Or if a portrait customer has spent x amount. But I can't see selling a portrait digital download, and I end up making beans because they go print all the photos themselves.
But for fine art prints its different because they may just want something for their laptop or website.????
We are in the digital age. The music and movie industry face the same thing. I download mp3's off limewire. You either embrace it or resist.
Life Imprints by Kim
FYI, this was a "download from the internet", not a CD to take away. You could buy it there (fill out a form and give them your email address) and they would email you a link for the download. Or you could buy it later on the internet and they'd give you a link to download from then.
When comparing to the various options Smugmug offers, this was most like the full resolution, personal use version that Smugmug offers. They were 6 MegaPixel originals taken with a Nikon D100.
--John
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I won't offer the commercial download options. It depends on the company/institution that wants the pics. If they make a lot of money with it, if they are a big company, i may want to ask more than when a small mom-and-pops company wants to use the picture. They'd have to send me an e-mail.
I think i will price them as a print. But what size? Should i assume 300 dpi or 100 dpi for print-resolution. 300 dpi is a standard, but 100 dpi prints look pretty good too!
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
I still think convenience and expertise is worth something. You pay more for food at a 7-11, because it's convenient, than you will at Von's or Albertson's.
I mostly agree with both of your posts but, I believe I still want more control over how my art prints are processed. I do a lot of custom shots of high end cars and the owners spend a lot for the prints. I do make a low-res screensaver of their car(s) and put it on a CD for them but, that is after they have spent hundreds of dollars with me. I will also print and give them 100 personalized courtesy cards with their car and info on them when the $'s spent starts getting up there. I'm building a demand for my highend work. I don't want to give it away or make it easily accessible for corruption.
Great thread and lots of food for thought.
Edit to add: Now I really need to get to work on my site. Don't let me back on for awhile.
http://jburtphotos.com
http://jburtphotos.smugmug.com
Basic but makin' changes
4x6 @ 2.50
5x7 @ 3.50
8x10 @ 9.99
I'm thinking I'll price the digital downloads at 2x the print size it can do, so.
1mp @ 5
4mp @ 20
Original @ 25
I know what your thinking "Who would buy multiple prints if they can just get the digital file?" My thinking is that this will entice people to spend MORE on the same picture! They already can get one 4x6 and go down to CVS and copy it multiple times. Those customers might think it more worthwhile to get the download instead!
You want to run a business, check out your competition.
www.gettyone.com
www.eyewire.com
Those are just two of the sites I frequent, where I purchase digital images regularly for advertising and marketing. I'll pay anywhere from $29 to $2000 for an image depending on the licensing rights I'm requesting. And I usually pay between $39 and $99 for royalty-free (unlimited use) images.
If you want to expand your business and cater to art directors and graphic artists in need of images you'd better get on the digital bandwagon.
If I'm on deadline and hunting for an image and I had to listen to anyone whining about their precious freakin' prints I'd hang up the phone.
Oh and BTW, scanning is NOT the same as a digital file. Only a clean, uncompressed, RAW or TIFF file will work for anyone prepping a piece for a print run such as a magazine ad or brochure.
It's not worth my time to buy a print, messenger it over to a file house to have it drum-scanned at a cost of $50 - $100, just to get the same quality an original digital file would have garnered.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
It also helps to understand what your business is and who your expected customers are.
If Angelo is your potential customer, pay attention to him. (Heck, pay attention to him anyway, we can all learn something here.)
If you're just hoping to sell a few prints here and there to Aunt Sally, and you know darn well that she'll scan her little heart out, that's a whole different ballgame.
Personally, I'd love to be have Angelo as a customer and Getty as a competitor.
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
There's a very different lesson to be learned here as well and perhaps it's for the powers-that-be at SmugMug, who can also be looking at "their" competition.
Other pro sites designed for high volume sales of photography, stock or otherwise, combine the work of all associated photographers.
When I'm shopping an image I will visit a site like GettyOne, open my lightbox page and enter a keyword and get back hits for every image that matches, regardless of the photographer.
In the SmugMug world, everyone is competing with each other. If I'm shopping an image do you think I really have time to google my search to find everyone? Hell no!
Maybe SmugMug can create a way to superimpose a search engine that will return hits for images in the same way I've outlined.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
I took all my sales over the last 18 months and then determined the average value per sale (average of $7 profit per item with an average of 3 items per customer = $21 profit per customer). Based on that, I decided that if a customer wanted to "make their own prints", then I wanted to average the same profit per customer. For original size, I set my price to $25 (which gives me $21.25 after SM fee). Some of my customers (especially the teens) just want a pic for their phone/PDA/desktop. For those, I only sell 1mp versions for $10 (really not suitable for quality prints of size).
It helps to have a sales history to do this sort of analysis (I have a bit over 2700 items sold so that gives me a reasonable base).
Just a thought...
D.
Just my thoughts FWIW:
- this (above) about sums up my POV, ...
... which means.... that it would be better really - if SM is to take DD seriously, that (like the prints) some better rights differentiations are set
e.g. link
One of the reasons I scratch my head so hard over setting prices is that the rights are too all encompassing e.g. you set an image in personal at the price of a couple of 10 by 8s, great for friends and family but if the shots are likely to get made into prints for the whole school then thats not afair price is it?
With commercial there is a big difference if someone wants to make a one off poster to if someone wants to run an ad campaign ( I should be so lucky!)
As far as 'personal DD pricing goes my attitude is to price so encourage buying prints. It has to be worth their while to pay for DD if they are going to get a LOT of prints - otherwise - get the prints ;-)
...pics..