"New Stuff" page could be better

jfriend

When in dgrin, there's a link in the top banner for "New Stuff". When you click on it, it takes you to a page of fairly new postings. But, I can't figure out what algorithm it uses to decide what to show. It often shows very little even though there are hundreds of recent posts that I have not read.

Meanwhile, I also sometimes frequent NikonCafe.com which I believe uses the same forum software and it's "New Posts" page seems to show me pages and pages and pages of recent postings that I haven't read.

I personally much prefer the NikonCafe style because I can pop in, read the threads I'm active in, scan a few topic areas I follow and do that several times a day. Then, sometime later when I have more time to actually browse, I can pop in and click on "New Posts" and scan lots of things that I haven't read yet, scrolling however far back I want to go.

But, if I try that same behavior in dgrin, it doesn't work. If I've come and gone to dgrin several times during the day, the "New Stuff" pages gets cleared and I won't see all the postings from the last few days.

Since I think both sites are running the same basic forum software, I'm assuming this is some sort of configuration variable. I happen to find the NikonCafe setting more useful than the dgrin setting because it lets me go look for new stuff at my leisure and doesn't force me to scan it every time I visit the site in order to not miss something.

Anyone know or care anything about this? Is this a configuration option? Why is dgrin set the way it is?

Andy

jfriend wrote:

Anyone know or care anything about this? Is this a configuration option? Why is dgrin set the way it is?

It's set this way on purpose. But I will investigate options. It's also set to exclude SmugMug Support Forum threads on purpose. If you want those, you use a different link (I keep one in my browser's bookmarks bar):

http://www.dgrin.com/search.php?do=getnew

wxwax

jfriend wrote:

When in dgrin, there's a link in the top banner for "New Stuff". When you click on it, it takes you to a page of fairly new postings. But, I can't figure out what algorithm it uses to decide what to show. It often shows very little even though there are hundreds of recent posts that I have not read.

John, glad you posted this.

I agree with you, I find I miss a lot of new posts when I use "New Stuff."

jfriend

wxwax wrote:

John, glad you posted this.

I agree with you, I find I miss a lot of new posts when I use "New Stuff."

Yeah, over on Nikon Cafe, I find I can use that feature to catch up on what's been happening the last few days and over here it just doesn't work for that. It seem to work for "what's been happening since I last came to the forum", but to use it that way, I'd have to visit it everytime I come to the forum and I can't afford to visit the forum that way. I pop in to check on my active threads several times a day. I then go look at new stuff at most once a day, sometimes only once every other day and it doesn't seem work for that the way I visit.

Maybe Andy will find some other options for it that could enhance it's usefulness.

Andy

Our "New Stuff" and Nikon Cafe's "New Posts" are identical queries, save for the fact that we exclude the SmugMug Support forums from ours.

I'm a member of Nikon Cafe, too, and just tried it. Hmmm...

jfriend

What does the query show?

Andy wrote:

Our "New Stuff" and Nikon Cafe's "New Posts" are identical queries, save for the fact that we exclude the SmugMug Support forums from ours.

I'm a member of Nikon Cafe, too, and just tried it. Hmmm...

Do you know what the query is and what the intent is for what it shows you?

Andy

jfriend wrote:

Do you know what the query is and what the intent is for what it shows you?

the query on both fora is "do=getnew"

jfriend

What does getnew do?

Andy wrote:

the query on both fora is "do=getnew"

I'm wondering what "getnew" is supposed to do? What algorithm is it supposed to represent? All messages you haven't read in the last hour? In the last day? Since your last visit to the site? Since you last read a message? Are there any configurations that control what getnew does?

When I go to the new posts view in each site, I find posts only from the last two hours on dgrin (33 posts) and I find posts from the last few days on Nikon Cafe (500 posts). Am I doing something different to cause this? Or are the sites working differently?

Andy

jfriend wrote:

I'm wondering what "getnew" is supposed to do? What algorithm is it supposed to represent? All messages you haven't read in the last hour? In the last day? Since your last visit to the site? Since you last read a message? Are there any configurations that control what getnew does?

When I go to the new posts view in each site, I find posts only from the last two hours on dgrin (33 posts) and I find posts from the last few days on Nikon Cafe (500 posts). Am I doing something different to cause this? Or are the sites working differently?

Give me some time to check into it please. I'll see if I can work on it this week. Please ping this thread again later in the week if you've not seen me back here

jfriend

Andy wrote:

Give me some time to check into it please. I'll see if I can work on it this week. Please ping this thread again later in the week if you've not seen me back here

Will do. No rush. Thanks for checking into it.

patch29

I bet it has something to do with how long the forums keep you online and the time it takes the forum to reset your new posts.

silica

Proves the old adage "different strokes for different folks." I prefer the "New Stuff" to operate exactly the way does, that is to show me the postings that are new since the last time I visited the forum. Most bulletin board software has this type of feature.

jfriend

An idea from the vBulletin doc

Andy wrote:

Give me some time to check into it please. I'll see if I can work on it this week. Please ping this thread again later in the week if you've not seen me back here

I went to vBulletin's site and looked at the server configuration documentation here: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/onepage/.

Here's a section from that doc:

Thread/Forum Read Marking Type
This option controls how threads and forums are marked as read. The options are:

1) Inactivity/Cookie Based - once a user has been inactive for a certain amount of time (the value of the cookie timeout option) all threads and forums are considered read. Individual threads are marked as read within a session via cookies. This option is how all versions of vBulletin before 3.5 functioned.
2) Database (no automatic forum marking) - this option uses the database to store thread and forum read times. This allows accurate read markers to be kept indefinitely. However, in order for a forum to be marked read when all threads are read, the user must view the list of threads for that forum. This option is more space and processor intensive than inactivity-based marking.
3) Database (automatic forum marking) - this option is the same as a previous option, but forums are automatically marked as read when the last new thread is read. This is the most usable option for end users, but most processor intensive.

If I were to hazard a guess based on my experience, I'd say that dgrin is using option 1) and NikonCafe is using option 2) or 3).

jfriend

silica wrote:

Proves the old adage "different strokes for different folks." I prefer the "New Stuff" to operate exactly the way does, that is to show me the postings that are new since the last time I visited the forum. Most bulletin board software has this type of feature.

Yep. I'm asking for a list of things I haven't read (just back a few days is OK with me). You are asking for a list of new posts only since you last visited (which are, by definition, all unread).

The list I'm asking for starts out exactly the same as your list, but on my list the forum software doesn't automatically hide things I haven't read just because I visited the forum a little while ago. The list continues back further in time. On your list, it doesn't show you posts any older than the last time you visited the forum.

I'm fine if you like it the way it is. The reason it doesn't work for me is the way it works now, I'm forced to look at new posts everytime I visit the forum or I will miss things. If I spend 2 minutes checking out an active thread and don't have time to read anything else, my new posts list will get cleared when I come back next time. That doesn't seem desirable.

It seems more powerful for the forum software to keep track of what I've not read and then just let me look back at that list as far back as I want to go (within limits) whenever I want to. That appears to be how NikonCafe works.

wxwax

silica wrote:

Proves the old adage "different strokes for different folks." I prefer the "New Stuff" to operate exactly the way does, that is to show me the postings that are new since the last time I visited the forum. Most bulletin board software has this type of feature.

Ours doesn't even do that.

patch29

wxwax wrote:

Ours doesn't even do that.

I know for some reason this does not work for you, but it works fine for me. I still don't understand why it does not work right for you.

patch29

I just found an interesting new feature. If you view "new stuff", but want more from the last 24 hours, you can hit "mark forums read" and then "new stuff", if no posts are made within the time you click the two links you will get this message.

Sorry, there are no new threads to view.

You may search for threads updated during the previous 24 hours, here.

patch29

A second option is to use the forum display options at the bottom of the individual forum pages, just set it to show last post time for last day, 2 days, week, etc.

Baldy

jfriend wrote:

Thread/Forum Read Marking Type.

That's exactly right. I have it configured that way because the server is under a lot of load and currently can't handle the database options.

But it turns out we're in the process of installing a much bigger server, so we'll turn on one of the database-driven options after we get it installed. The server's in the racks but configuration, testing....you know the drill = some patience required, your mileage may vary, blah blah.

Note to wxwax: not doing this on ADVrider anytime soon. It's tooooo bbiiigggg and tends to sack whatever server it's on.

wxwax

Thanks Baldy, I kinda figured server load was behind it all.

jfriend

Baldy wrote:

That's exactly right. I have it configured that way because the server is under a lot of load and currently can't handle the database options.

But it turns out we're in the process of installing a much bigger server, so we'll turn on one of the database-driven options after we get it installed. The server's in the racks but configuration, testing....you know the drill = some patience required, your mileage may vary, blah blah.

Note to wxwax: not doing this on ADVrider anytime soon. It's tooooo bbiiigggg and tends to sack whatever server it's on.

Cool. Thanks Baldy.

Baldy

jfriend wrote:

I went to vBulletin's site and looked at the server configuration documentation here: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/onepage/.

Here's a section from that doc:

Thread/Forum Read Marking Type
This option controls how threads and forums are marked as read. The options are:

1) Inactivity/Cookie Based - once a user has been inactive for a certain amount of time (the value of the cookie timeout option) all threads and forums are considered read. Individual threads are marked as read within a session via cookies. This option is how all versions of vBulletin before 3.5 functioned.
2) Database (no automatic forum marking) - this option uses the database to store thread and forum read times. This allows accurate read markers to be kept indefinitely. However, in order for a forum to be marked read when all threads are read, the user must view the list of threads for that forum. This option is more space and processor intensive than inactivity-based marking.
3) Database (automatic forum marking) - this option is the same as a previous option, but forums are automatically marked as read when the last new thread is read. This is the most usable option for end users, but most processor intensive.

If I were to hazard a guess based on my experience, I'd say that dgrin is using option 1) and NikonCafe is using option 2) or 3).

Okay, Onethumb and Andrew installed a honkin' new database server last night, so I enabled option 3.

Let us know how it works.

wxwax

Cool. Will do.

wxwax

Holy commode contents! 20 pages all of a sudden. Deliriously good.

DavidTO

I don't have any feedback on the option 3 thing yet, but dang, did you guys speed dgrin up. Thanks!

Dee

Wow!
I always did say (complain) that I was missing new stuff -- but I sure didn't expect 489 instead of my usual 75-100 number!

I almost missed Harryb's power line post! But because of the new and improved "new stuff" search I was able to leave Harryb a nice little comment

Now when I read everything, I'll just click "mark all read" and I can start in fresh!

Thanks!:):

jfriend

Wow - cool!

Baldy wrote:

Okay, Onethumb and Andrew installed a honkin' new database server last night, so I enabled option 3.

Let us know how it works.

This is very cool! It will take me a few days to know for sure, but I'm already happy to not be losing new postings!

It's also quite amazing when it's only 8 days between a piece of feedback I provide and a solution implemented based on the feedback. Not many places on the internet where that happens and this isn't the first time that's happened here either. Thanks for listening.

ChrisJ

Baldy wrote:

Okay, Onethumb and Andrew installed a honkin' new database server last night, so I enabled option 3.

Let us know how it works.

After living with this for a few days... I love it. I don't feel compelled to read all the new posts I want in one sitting anymore. If I don't read them, they won't be marked as read.

thumb

Thanks!

jfriend

Works great

jfriend wrote:

This is very cool! It will take me a few days to know for sure, but I'm already happy to not be losing new postings!

After using it for a few days, this new feature is totally awesome. I can now read at my leisure without losing things. Not only does it keep me from losing new postings, but it also lets me go back and read other new posts at any time I have some time rather than having to do it everytime I read anything.

I also like that it gives you a dividing line between the new, new posts since you last read anything in the forum and the older, new posts. It lets you go back as far as you'd like.

jfriend

jfriend wrote:

After using it for a few days, this new feature is totally awesome. I can now read at my leisure without losing things. Not only does it keep me from losing new postings, but it also lets me go back and read other new posts at any time I have some time rather than having to do it everytime I read anything.

I also like that it gives you a dividing line between the new, new posts since you last read anything in the forum and the older, new posts. It lets you go back as far as you'd like.

Just to follow up one more time. The switch in how the New Stuff page works is massively more useful than the old way and easily lets me get twice as much utility out of dgrin. Before, I would just lose new postings if I didn't have time to scan New Stuff everytime I logged in. Now I can scan for them when I have time to and they don't ever get lost.

Baldy

Excellent. I can add your mobile device style later, but we have a big data center move this week.