help with football shots

dbaker1221 · August 2, 2006

the local small town paper asked me to fill in at the high school football game later this month as he can't be there..."sure"

HA>HA. never done that before. this will be a new experiance for me.

I could use some tips....friends

It will be an evening/ night game....don't know how good the stadium lights are...I have a D50 with kit lens 300mm 4-5.6 (not the best for low light)
I am also about to purchase the sb 600 flash (wife :wxwax doesn't care for the extra 180 I'm spending so I know a 2.8 lens won't be comming any time soon.):scratch :cry

Any thoughts on camera set up to different shots that I should be looking for will be great.

thanks all.

System · August 2, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

so I know a 2.8 lens won't be coming any time soon.) :cry

first comment /advice shoot a lot early you should have a little natural light left...next would be possibly looking to rent a 2.8 lens

i shoot a 70-200 2.8 and love it .. don't get the reach of the opposite sidelines like i would like but o well..

as for flash ?? i don't use it.. the photog for another paper shoot all flash .. i would say just be careful not to blind a runner of a receiver anticipating a pass... next get there early shoot pregame.. just to get a feel .. find out your limits as to moving up and down the sidelines.... try to shoot on the home team side ... so you aren't fighting to chain crew and yard markers... look at the QB eyes ..they will take you to the ball...i like shoot offense coming at me most times ... find out if you are going to be high lighting a player... stats... if you are responsible for getting them .. then recruit some help.. ask (beg) the team stat guy to fax a copy to paper direct... this is easiest..

i know i am missing something odvice

think more later... pm me if you think of anything.. else...

mercphoto · August 3, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

It will be an evening/ night game....don't know how good the stadium lights are

They will be low in intensity and strange in color cast.

...I have a D50 with kit lens 300mm 4-5.6 (not the best for low light)

Leave that lens at home as it will be useless for that shooting situation. Seriously, if that is all you have stay at home and have a nice dinner with the wife instead. Rent a 200/2.8 or a 300/2.8 lens. Shoot aperture priority, wide open, at ISO 1600. You might want to shoot RAW as well to correct any color issues you will likely have due to the lights. Most likely you will not be able to use flash.

Seefutlung · August 3, 2006

Hey dbaker-

Mercphoto is essentially correct. Leave that lens at home. As a former news photog I found that nearly all HS stadiums have suckie lighting. Shoot at 1600 ISO maybe even 3200 if you got it (don't think the D50 has 3200).

As a neophyte, you probably won't be familar/comfortable with a long lens ... I strongly suggest something shorter around 100mm, minimum aperature is 2.8. I would never use flash at a sporting event, there is always a potential that your flash may effect the outcome of the game. A flashed image (flash on camera as the principal light souce) really looks bad in sporting photos.

Back to lens ... a 100mm will not give you good coverage of the field, but it is much easier to use. All the paper needs is one good shot of the event (not award winning but sharp, well exposed with some action) ... so the 100mm (or even 50mm) will get you that one good shot ... but you have to wait for the action to come to you. The players need to be at the hash mark or closer for a quality photo ... if they are beyond the hash mark they will be too small on the image to crop for publication.

Football is easy, keep an eye on the down and yardage and you can guess what the next play will be and position yourself accordingly. If there are other more experienced photogs there, see where they go ...

Once again, use a lens which you are comfortable or can handle easily. Shoot at 1600 ISO. Minimum shutter speed will be around 1/250 to 1/500 (the faster the better). Let the action come to you, release the shutter when the action fills the viewfinder. Keep pumping the autofocus button to keep the action in focus. Chimp between plays to see how you're doing, look for sharpness by enlarging the pix on the LCD. Remember that generally a shot without the ball is worthless, that a boring sharp photo is better than a blurry unsharp pix.

PS- Why did you come here for help? I would think the photogs at your paper would be full of advise.

wxwax · August 3, 2006

Agree. Get a faster, shorter lens. Be willing to stand behind the end zones so you can be close to the scoring action. Fewer shots, but better quality. Be prepared to hoof it from one end of the field to the other as the teams move up and down.

Shutter speed is paramount, do whatever you need to do to get a sharp image. And remember, your shots can and will be cropped. Your composition doesn't have to be perfect, but you do need to have the important action (ball, face, eyes) in the frame.

Good luck, sounds like fun!

Steve Cavigliano · August 3, 2006

DB,
Good info you have received so far

Faster lens, ISO1600 and fast speeds are the ticket. I'd just like to add that if you stand on the sidelines (on either end of the bench) you can get some nice shots of action moving towards you. There will be times when running plays will be coming towards you or a receiver will be catching a pass close to the sidelines where you are positioned. So you really don't need a supertele lens. Rent a nice 70-200 F2.8 and you should do just fine.

Good luck and I can pretty much guarantee that you will get better results with each shoot

Remember to have fun

Steve

JSImages · August 6, 2006

Good Advice But doesn't help.. Does it?
Everyone is giving you great but useless advice

. You have already said that your cannot/will not, be able to get a new lens, so lets deal with what you have.

SB-600 and your lenses. I am not sure what lens you have as your post says 300mm kit lens??? So lets assume you were talking about the 70-300 2nd kit lens, and the 18-55 Kit lens.

If you have a Monopod, take and use it, but not a tripod.

You not really going to be able to get a lot of action shots, but the SB-600 is going to help. Set it to i-TTL but not i-TTL/BL.

On your camera, Set your aperture as low as you can, your ISO at at least 800, but your should probably just turn on Auto ISO.

Get as many shots as you can in pre-game warm up and during th 1st qtr when you have the most ambient light.

Keep checking your histogram, as things will be changing during this time.

Try to get shots of the Players on the sidelines when lighting gets bad, get interaction between the players-players and players-coaches. Sideline celebrations, worry, defeat, those all look great in pictures, and take away from the fact that you do not have the right equipment for football.

You can get action shots using your lenses and the SB-600, but you need at least 1/250 and the lowest (biggest) Aperture you can do on your lens. Make adjustments to your ISO and flash compensation to get those needed settings.

Stand 10 - 15 Yards ahead of the play and wait for your moment. You dont have the recycle rate on your flash, for more than one shot per play.
Make sure your flash batteries are fully charged, and if you have enough (I have 14 sets of 4) change them every quarter.

If you have a flash bracket, use it, otherwise you will be doing a lot of red eye removal afterwards. Since you shooting with flash, and slow lens, shoot RAW. You do not need the speed of jpg, and you may need to do some exposure compensation adjustment afterwards.

Don't take it to serious, and don't be intimidated by the parent that is on the sideline with his D2X, 70-200VR, and his Nikon Jacket. This is not what you normally do, and you wont have to see them again. Avoid them if you can, they will be condesending, and tell you you don't have the right equipment, and what you should get (kinda like here) but you are there for a job, so pay attention to that and not them.

After Game hand shakes, Celabrations, Parent hugs, helmet raising, and all that after game stuff are great photo ops. Take advantage.

When your all done, tell the newspaper guy, that next time his paper should lend you there equipment, or pick up the tab for rental stuff.

Good Luck and Have Fun...

cecilc · August 8, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

It will be an evening/ night game....don't know how good the stadium lights are...I have a D50 with kit lens 300mm 4-5.6 (not the best for low light)
I am also about to purchase the sb 600 flash.

You've received some good advice for this so far ....

One thing I haven't seen in the responses is the word deadline ....

Papers have a deadline for information that's going in tomorrow's paper (the local paper I submit to has a deadline of 9:30 PM .... ). Find out the latest time that you can submit images for inclusion in their layout for the next day. You may find that you cannot shoot the entire game and still make deadline .... You'll need to figure in travel time back home, downloading, editing your images, and e-mailing them in to the paper ..... Now, having said that, if you're not shooting anything for tomorrow's paper, then you won't have any time constraints ....

As far as the game goes: I prefer to shoot in manual mode and make adjustments as the light fades (and it will!). The good news is that you might have some good late afternoon, early evening light to work with until close to halftime or so. I would attempt to get that game shot in the first half .... with your 5.6 lens, I'm not sure that I'd worry about attempting to get action under stadium lighting (which is notoriously bad!). But if you do, go ahead and bump your ISO up to 1600; open up your aperture to the max; set your shutter speed to 1/320 or 1/400, and I'd set my flash to TTL and set a flash compensation to +1. That may give you a shot - and if you're shooting RAW, that may give you some lattitude in the RAW conversion as well.

Have fun with this ... it's great to be on the sidelines shooting a game ....

c9c · August 8, 2006

dbaker1221: Ok, so I'm an Englishman and I've only followed American Football for one season. But I did get to go sideline, home and away, up-to-and-including the Rose Bowl when we (UTexas) won the National Championship. I had much better light, often during the day, and I was using a D70s with that same 70-300G lens. Did it work? During the day, yes. At some of the evening games, only in the first half. Even in Houston for the Big12 game, the shadows were so deep that it was like night and day. thank goodness nothing happened after the first quarter!
I tried Auto ISO and would not do it again. The camera sets itself for the ambient light, but doesn't know that there is action and you end up with too slow of a shutter.
Shoot RAW. I shot JPG during the day, but when light starts going, go RAW.
Shoot as fast (shutter) as you can and pan if you have to. Shoot more images early in the game. Save the flash for after the game.
Yes, I did splash out for a (Sigma) 70-200/2.8 for the Rose Bowl. If you try and rent, you will probably need a credit card with enough credit limit to put down the purchase price of the lens as deposit.
The university soccer games that I shot were probably nearer the lighting you will experience (that is, the equivalent of a weirdly-colored candle too far away to do any good). I did not find the 70-300G to be much use after the light started dropping. Love that lens during the day though! Shoot RAW.
Oh, and remember that you are "only" looking for a couple of shots for publication (probably). Don't try and record the whole game for posterity. I shoot about 800-1200 shots per game, but only use one or two. (OK, so some of those were of cheerleaders--we don't have those in England and I felt it my duty to record them...)

I know you won't like this, but 2.8 is your friend. Failing that, go RAW. And have fun!

-ANDY
Austin, TX
www.c9c.com

DJ-S1 · August 8, 2006

I vote this one for HOF. Any mods agree? Great stuff here, guys!

Oh, and Andy (c9c)? A thread with Rose Bowl sideline shots is definitely in order!

dbaker1221 · August 9, 2006

All right... I do appreciate the positive help I've been getting( the negetive ones..well you know) I did say small town paper. It comes out once a week. I saw the guy that I'm doing this favor for over the weekend at a softball game. He was doing some shooting. Oh my god!! He has the same lenses I do except shooting with a d70. Sooo... I guess I'll make do.

I'm planning ,,,,800iso if poss. 1600 if I have to. Flash when I can /maybe./(I pray I don't blind a receiver) , Raw, monopod. early shooting & heavy photoshop. lots of praying..lol

I hit the Brewer/ cub game & took raw at 1600 & photoshoped. I was 2nd level & could not get closer...(darn ushers) i tried cleaning them up.

Oh yeah.. I mention to my wife at he game I need 2.8...........suddenly she deaf.

dbaker1221 · August 9, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

All right... I do appreciate the positive help I've been getting( the negetive ones..well you know) I did say small town paper. It comes out once a week. I saw the guy that I'm doing this favor for over the weekend at a softball game. He was doing some shooting. Oh my god!! He has the same lenses I do except shooting with a d70. Sooo... I guess I'll make do.

I'm planning ,,,,800iso if poss. 1600 if I have to. Flash when I can /maybe./(I pray I don't blind a receiver) , Raw, monopod. early shooting & heavy photoshop. lots of praying..lol

I hit the Brewer/ cub game & took raw at 1600 & photoshoped. I was 2nd level & could not get closer...(darn ushers) i tried cleaning them up.

Oh yeah.. I mention to my wife at he game I need 2.8...........suddenly she deaf.

Home Run Swing.

Seefutlung · August 9, 2006

Noise wise ... for a newspaper that runs three to four dots per inch ... the IQ of the batter is fine. Remember that for news it is image impact first over image quality (within reason).

One person mention to shoot the bench ... that is waste of memory, the story is about the game, not people milling around the sidelines. Shoot the bench for a check on exposure before the game ... but most stadiums focus the lights on the hash marks throwing the bench a stop or two under the field. Don't think the monopod will help much, apart to lessen muscle fatigue ... the shutter speed required to stop action will also stop camera shake. Don't use a flash, the shots will appear amaturish (just look at any major newspaper and magizine ... see a flash on the sports page). Not to be offensive, but your remark of hoping not to blind a participant is reckless. The game is more important than your photo ... the first rule of journalism is to report ... not to interfere with the story. The story you are reporting is the game ... you are obligated NOT to interfere with the game and at the places I worked ... UPI, LA Times and Orange County News, we never used a flash and probably would be fired if we had.

If the lighting is suckie, as it probably will be, then you just have to work with what's there.

Unless this is an important game (seems a bit preseason to me), you will be wasting memory on any aftergame shots unless they are very unusal, i.e. coach on shoulders of a lineman, a fight, et cetera.

A type of non-action shot that may run would be something like this:http://www.garyayala.smugmug.com/photos/54936375-L.jpg

StevenV · August 9, 2006

been there, done that.

white balance - it'll change as the night wears on, as the sun goes down and the ration between sun and lights changes. I shoot a whitebalance card at the beginning of each quarter.

And I tend to shoot more during the first half than the second - more light. If something interesting's happening (TD, sack, etc.) 3rd/4th quarter great but otherwise most of my shots in the paper tend to be from the early part of the game.

If you have time, contact the editor and/or writers to see if they're doing a feature on a particular player, and if so make sure to get shots of them (both action and without helmet). pre-game warmup time's great for that; the players and coaches (usually) won't mind if you tell 'em that the paper's working on a story and you're not in their way... but talk with the coach first.

johng · August 11, 2006

let's keep it simple
OK, yes there's some good advice here in general. But, if all we're dealing with is a single game in August you'll have enough light in the first 2 quarters to get the shots you need with a 5.6 lens. Yes, the answers are different if you're talking October football.

But, you do want to get your paper shots in the 1st two quarters though.

Shoot Av mode, wide open at 5.6. Start at ISO 800 - if you're getting shutter speeds of at least 1/500 stay there. If not, then go to ISO 1600.

Positioning -
Shoot from about 15 yards in front of the line of scrimage until they get to about the 25 yard line - then move to the endzone. Shoot from either the back corner or from directly in front (i.e. by either hash mark or goal post) - this is your best opportunity to get the running back front on clearing the line.

In almost every case - shoot in portrait orientation and as tight as possible.

Your 'safety shots' the shots that are always usable and easy to obtain are the running back - get some nice tight shots of him running and getting hit - make sure the face is clear and in the shot. Second safety shot is the quarterback - get tight shots of him looking/throwing the ball. Once you have several of those types of shots then try for the receivers and defensive players. Those are tougher to get good shots - so get the quarterback and running back shots first they're much easier to get as they are there on almost every play and they're easy to track.

Also - make sure you expose for faces - that's what makes a good shot. So, if you're getting 1/800 or 1/620 shutter speeds, use some positive EC to get better exposed faces. In the end, tighter is better - even if body parts get clipped. Faces, peak action and the ball make for better newspaper shots versus loose framing showing 6 different players. So, resist the urge to shoot loose - stay tight and you'll be fine.

Remember, all you need is about 5-6 very good shots - an editor doesn't want more than that anyway - especially not for a weekly newspaper.

I might suggest going to another scrimage or practice ahead of time to practice your technique - you'll be that much more comfortable when game time comes.

dbaker1221 · August 11, 2006

terriffic advice friends, Thanks. I do appreciate it. I have about another week & a half to think about it.

wxwax · August 12, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

terriffic advice friends, Thanks. I do appreciate it. I have about another week & a half to think about it.

I hope you post your best shots, I'd like to see 'em.

dbaker1221 · August 26, 2006

some shots from the game
I went & did what I could. overall I felt it was a so-so night.

I really do need a 2.8 ...but I knew that...just dont have the $$

As the night went on I did (my appologies to those who said not to) use my flash. :uhoh 3 out of the 5 small paper photogs were using one..tsk..

Big Thanks to everyone. He asked me to do another next week.
I just wish I had a 2.8 or his paper had one I could use , but it sounds like their budget is like mine.

StevenV · August 26, 2006

Good job, I'm sure they and their readers will be more than happy.

FrankieAng · August 26, 2006

Great thread everyone, the sharing of information is beneficial to all. I tip my hat to all of you for offering your knowledge and preferences.

System · August 27, 2006

dbaker1221 wrote:

I went & did what I could. overall I felt it was a so-so night.

I really do need a 2.8 ...but I knew that...just dont have the $$

As the night went on I did (my appologies to those who said not to) use my flash. :uhoh 3 out of the 5 small paper photogs were using one..tsk..

Big Thanks to everyone. He asked me to do another next week.
I just wish I had a 2.8 or his paper had one I could use , but it sounds like their budget is like mine.

I think you nailed it ... you might find out if they want to feature a player ...other than that looks good ... i told you the flash would be no bigge..

JSImages · August 28, 2006

Excellant
For what you had, and the pictures you posted, you did a great job.

Just goes to show you that photography is about the photographer more than it is about the equipment.

Well Done.

dbaker1221 · August 28, 2006

Again..Thanks to everyone for info...now if you could pass the hat for a new lens.

Rene` · August 29, 2006

You sound pretty smart.
You sound pretty smart. How bout taking a look at my first football shoot and give me some feedback. Be gentle.

Thank's,
Rene`

JSImages wrote:

Everyone is giving you great but useless advice. You have already said that your cannot/will not, be able to get a new lens, so lets deal with what you have.

SB-600 and your lenses. I am not sure what lens you have as your post says 300mm kit lens??? So lets assume you were talking about the 70-300 2nd kit lens, and the 18-55 Kit lens.

If you have a Monopod, take and use it, but not a tripod.

You not really going to be able to get a lot of action shots, but the SB-600 is going to help. Set it to i-TTL but not i-TTL/BL.

On your camera, Set your aperture as low as you can, your ISO at at least 800, but your should probably just turn on Auto ISO.

Get as many shots as you can in pre-game warm up and during th 1st qtr when you have the most ambient light.

Keep checking your histogram, as things will be changing during this time.

Try to get shots of the Players on the sidelines when lighting gets bad, get interaction between the players-players and players-coaches. Sideline celebrations, worry, defeat, those all look great in pictures, and take away from the fact that you do not have the right equipment for football.

You can get action shots using your lenses and the SB-600, but you need at least 1/250 and the lowest (biggest) Aperture you can do on your lens. Make adjustments to your ISO and flash compensation to get those needed settings.

Stand 10 - 15 Yards ahead of the play and wait for your moment. You dont have the recycle rate on your flash, for more than one shot per play.
Make sure your flash batteries are fully charged, and if you have enough (I have 14 sets of 4) change them every quarter.

If you have a flash bracket, use it, otherwise you will be doing a lot of red eye removal afterwards. Since you shooting with flash, and slow lens, shoot RAW. You do not need the speed of jpg, and you may need to do some exposure compensation adjustment afterwards.

Don't take it to serious, and don't be intimidated by the parent that is on the sideline with his D2X, 70-200VR, and his Nikon Jacket. This is not what you normally do, and you wont have to see them again. Avoid them if you can, they will be condesending, and tell you you don't have the right equipment, and what you should get (kinda like here) but you are there for a job, so pay attention to that and not them.

After Game hand shakes, Celabrations, Parent hugs, helmet raising, and all that after game stuff are great photo ops. Take advantage.

When your all done, tell the newspaper guy, that next time his paper should lend you there equipment, or pick up the tab for rental stuff.

Good Luck and Have Fun...

Zanotti · September 2, 2006

wxwax wrote:

Agree. Get a faster, shorter lens. Be willing to stand behind the end zones so you can be close to the scoring action. Fewer shots, but better quality. Be prepared to hoof it from one end of the field to the other as the teams move up and down.

Shutter speed is paramount, do whatever you need to do to get a sharp image. And remember, your shots can and will be cropped. Your composition doesn't have to be perfect, but you do need to have the important action (ball, face, eyes) in the frame.

Good luck, sounds like fun!

Good ideas, what about Canon's focus types, one shot, AI, or other and why?

gsgary · September 3, 2006

You did good with what you had

help with football shots

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