What is the line on the left side of the picture?

goodcrna

I'm (trying)to take my daughter's senior pictures. I'm actually have a great time learning and I'm getting several great shots (at least to my eyes). Can someone explain what this line is on the left side of these pictures? I was using a Canon 1D Mk II w/ 85mm f/1.4 and 580 Flash with lightsphere. The day was cloudy/hazy but enough brightness to make her squint.

MT6H0695_1.jpg

Thanks
Greg

goodcrna

Additional examples: No line but same batch...!!!???
MT6H0853_1.jpg

wxwax

You see this on the RAW or unprocessed jpeg image?

goodcrna

This is a processed RAW file

wxwax wrote:

You see this on the RAW or unprocessed jpeg image?

I am new to RAW processing but this is a jpg from a processed RAW file. What am I doing wrong?

goodcrna

wxwax wrote:

You see this on the RAW or unprocessed jpeg image?

I was shooting RAW+L (jpg). THis is one of the jpg's that I adjusted the levels a bit, but otherwise no changes.....It's like some sort of flare??? All of the pictures I took in the 'shade' didn't have this line on the left side?????

MT6H0727-1.jpg

Thanks
Greg

pathfinder

Check the shutter speeds of the images with the line along the left side of the frame - I'll bet they're the faster shutter speeds and the longer shutter speeds have no line.

This looks like a sticky shutter curtain to me - I had my 1DsmKll returned to Canon Factory Service last spring for this ( I only had the line at shutter speeds faster than 1/1000th ) and Canon replaced the shutter under warranty. Took about two weeks - door to door.

Email the folks at Canon Factory Service some of your shots and see what they say. Go to www.usa.canon.com and work your way down to this page - https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=OnlineTrackSearchAct&keycode=6500

and submit a repair request. Canon makes getting repairs rather easy, really. The shutter on a 1DMkll should not fail in less than 100,000 + actuations. Mine had maybe 10,000 or so when it went south.

Let us all know what the verdict is, please.

jfriend

Flash sync?

goodcrna wrote:

I was shooting RAW+L (jpg). THis is one of the jpg's that I adjusted the levels a bit, but otherwise no changes.....It's like some sort of flare??? All of the pictures I took in the 'shade' didn't have this line on the left side?????

1/3200th of a second with fill-flash according to the EXIF on the 2nd mage. Perhaps an issue with the flash sync?

ziggy53

jfriend wrote:

1/3200th of a second with fill-flash according to the EXIF on the 2nd mage. Perhaps an issue with the flash sync?

That's the first thing I would investigate.

Greg,

What were the flash/camera settings? Were you using FP mode?

ziggy53

pathfinder

I suggest shooting a few shots at 1/3000, 1/4000th and 1/8000th without flash at all, and see if the line on the left side persists... If it does, then flash synch is not responsible.

If it is worse at higher shutter speeds without flash, I submit that the shutter curtain is sticky. This is exactly what my images looked like - I may still have a few of the files at home this evening.

goodcrna

jfriend wrote:

1/3200th of a second with fill-flash according to the EXIF on the 2nd mage. Perhaps an issue with the flash sync?

John,
I think you may have hit the nail on the head!!! Yes, I was using high speed sync and ALL of the photos with shutter speeds greater than 1/2000 had the line. I don't know if this is considered normal or not. I really don't want to send my camera in (jeeeez, maybe I could tell my wife, I need to upgrade!!!).

What are the limitations of high speed sync? I was shooting outside on a bright cloudy/hazy day. I'd shoot one picture at 1/500 and then the next would be at 1/3200. This sure isn't easy is it!!!!:uhoh

Thanks all for your input guidence....
Greg

jfriend

High speed flash sync and another option

goodcrna wrote:

John,
I think you may have hit the nail on the head!!! Yes, I was using high speed sync and ALL of the photos with shutter speeds greater than 1/2000 had the line. I don't know if this is considered normal or not. I really don't want to send my camera in (jeeeez, maybe I could tell my wife, I need to upgrade!!!).

What are the limitations of high speed sync? I was shooting outside on a bright cloudy/hazy day. I'd shoot one picture at 1/500 and then the next would be at 1/3200. This sure isn't easy is it!!!!:uhoh

Thanks all for your input guidence....
Greg

I'm sorry I don't know about high speed sync on your type of camera. On most SLRs, fast shutter speeds are achieved by scanning a slit across the sensor because the whole shutter can't open/close that fast. The slit works by making sure that no single piece of sensor gets exposed for more than 1/3200th of a second (or whatever shutter speed you have set), but each piece of sensor sees light from a slightly different moment in time. This makes flash sync hard because the flash pulse itself is very fast and a single pulse would only illuminate a slit of the sensor. So, to make high speed sync work, they use a series of partial power flash pulses that have to be very accurately timed and coordinated with the shutter movement so that each piece of sensor sees the same amount of light from the flash as the slit moves across the sensor. If there is any slight error in this timing or coordination, you will get one or more dark or light bands in the photo.

I would think that your camera's service center could advise you based on seeing these images. I don't know if the problem is with your shutter, your camera's electronics calibration or the flash or you've exceeded the capabilities of high speed flash sync. You might first consult your camera's and/or flash's manual to see if there are any limitations on how fast you can go with high speed flash sync.

It looks like what you were trying to do is to use fill flash with small depth of field (large aperture) in sunlit pictures. That is difficult because the bright light plus large aperture dictates really fast shutter speed which makes the flash hard. One thing you could do it to use an ND filter to knock the light down significantly. At a fixed and wide aperture, this will get your shutter speed back into an easier range. Of course, if you drop into the shadows, you will have to remove the ND filter.

pathfinder

jfriend wrote:

I'm sorry I don't know about high speed sync on your type of camera. On most SLRs, fast shutter speeds are achieved by scanning a slit across the sensor because the whole shutter can't open/close that fast. The slit works by making sure that no single piece of sensor gets exposed for more than 1/3200th of a second (or whatever shutter speed you have set), but each piece of sensor sees light from a slightly different moment in time. This makes flash sync hard because the flash pulse itself is very fast and a single pulse would only illuminate a slit of the sensor. So, to make high speed sync work, they use a series of partial power flash pulses that have to be very accurately timed and coordinated with the shutter movement so that each piece of sensor sees the same amount of light from the flash as the slit moves across the sensor. If there is any slight error in this timing or coordination, you will get one or more dark or light bands in the photo.

I would think that your camera's service center could advise you based on seeing these images. I don't know if the problem is with your shutter, your camera's electronics calibration or the flash or you've exceeded the capabilities of high speed flash sync. You might first consult your camera's and/or flash's manual to see if there are any limitations on how fast you can go with high speed flash sync.

It looks like what you were trying to do is to use fill flash with small depth of field (large aperture) in sunlit pictures. That is difficult because the bright light plus large aperture dictates really fast shutter speed which makes the flash hard. One thing you could do it to use an ND filter to knock the light down significantly. At a fixed and wide aperture, this will get your shutter speed back into an easier range. Of course, if you drop into the shadows, you will have to remove the ND filter.

John,
On page 16 in my manual for my 430ex, it states "With high-speed synch, you can use flash with all shutter speeds. This is convenient when you want to use aperture priority for fill-flash portraits"

Focal plane flash emulation ( which is what high speed synch really is - a sustained series of flashes emulating a focal plane flash bulb ) is probably easier for shorter shutter speeds.

CRNA,
I still would like to see images shot with 1/4000th and no flash whatsoever, and 1/8000th and no flash. Use as high an ISO as necessary to keep the shutter speed this brief.

Here is the composite of the images I sent to Canon Factory Service about my camera and the under exposed area along the uppper part of the frame at shutter speeds 1/100th and higher - particularly noticeable at 1/4000th and 1/8000th, but easily visible at 1/500th and 1/1000th also.

This may not be real apparent in the 800 pixel image seen here on dgrin, so I have made the original file available in my gallery or just change the L in the jpg size to O to see it. It is quite apparent and looks a great deal like crna's images to me. The file can be found here -

http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/gallery/1789718/1/89086131

I will be interested in your opinion also John.

jfriend

Sure looks like a mechanical problem with the focal plane shutter

pathfinder wrote:

Here is the composite of the images I sent to Canon Factory Service about my camera and the under exposed area along the uppper part of the frame at shutter speeds 1/100th and higher - particularly noticeable at 1/4000th and 1/8000th, but easily visible at 1/500th and 1/1000th also.

Since there's no flash involved here, this sure seems like a mechanical shutter problem when using shutter speeds fast enough to use a moving slit.

According to a quick Google search, most focal plane shutters these days use a slit that travels vertical across the short direction of the sensor which would line up with the observation in your problem photos.

pathfinder

jfriend wrote:

Since there's no flash involved here, this sure seems like a mechanical shutter problem when using shutter speeds fast enough to use a moving slit.

According to a quick Google search, most focal plane shutters these days use a slit that travels vertical across the short direction of the sensor which would line up with the observation in your problem photos.[/QUOTE]


That was what had me confused originally with this issue, John, when I contacted Canon Factory Service - I was used to focal plane shutter that moves across the long dimension not the short dimension, and thus was not sure this was shutter related. But they identified it immediately.

The relationship to speed is why I call it a "sticky shutter" - a curtain is being delayed somehow extending the exposure into overexposure.

I was kind of slow identifying this at first. I had just finished shooting my niece's wedding, and found several shots with this problem. They WERE all shot with flash, as I was shooting a wedding with fill flash.

But that was really one of the few times my shutter speeds were above 1/1000th. I rarely use the 1/400th or 1/8000th on a 1DsMkll - I don't use this camera for sports shooting. Only when I realized that is was not due to flash, but shutter speed related, did I begin to figure it out.

Anyway, it was fixed promptly without question by Canon, even though I was not the original owner. Andy was. He really is missing out on a good camera, but don't tell him, ok??

I found another frame of the shutter defect from last October shooting in Chattanooga - here is a frame straight from RAW 1/1600th f8 - no flash

goodcrna

Thanks all for your help.

I retook my daughters "Senior Pictures" at the end of a sunny day and I had no problems with the line on the left side. I did notice that when I did push the shutter speed to > 1/1000th I started to see the line again....

I didn't think to turn off the flash and see if the line was still there. I will do that when I can and let you know. It may very well be a combination of high speed sync "failure" and a shutter problem....

Greg