Colour problem ..as usual

gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
edited August 24, 2006 in Finishing School
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Comments

  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited August 21, 2006
    Yes. Use the Manaul Mode in Shay's action, and then use the layer mask to mask away more or less of it.

    "It" being the color of which you speak.

    deal.gif
  • 01af01af Registered Users Posts: 41 Big grins
    edited August 21, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    Use the Manaul Mode in Shay's action, and then use the layer mask to mask away more or less of it.
    Or use the protocol brush, to selectively undo anything done globally. I guess that's the quickest and simplest approach.

    -- Olaf
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 21, 2006
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    edited August 22, 2006
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  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 22, 2006
    gus wrote:
    Nup...im drowning here. Anyone got an online description explaining how to use a layer mask. My CS2 book has nothing about it.
    I don't have a tutorial link, but I'll take a crack at giving instructions. It's pretty easy, reallly. Be warned though...I have never tried Shay's action and don't know what it does, but these steps should apply to all layer masks.

    1. Select the layer that contains the image pixels.
    2. On the layer menu, select Layer->Layer Mask->Reveal All
    3. In the layer palette, click on the white mask icon in the layer you have selected.
    4. In the channels palette, make the layer mask visible by checking its little box. You won't see a change yet, but stay tuned.
    5. Select the brush tool and set the foreground color to black.
    6. Now paint over the area that you want excluded from action. Remember, black on a mask means blocked, white means exposed.
    7. Now click on the image icon in the layers palette. The mask will no longer be visible on your image, but it's still there.
    8. OK, that's it. You can now use Shay's action. Anything that you do to the layer itself will be excluded from the area you have masked (that is, the black part of the mask).

    Depending on the image, it may be faster to select Hide All when you create the layer mask, then paint in white to expose only certain areas. The result is the same.

    Hope this helps.
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
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  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
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  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 22, 2006
    gus wrote:
    Im doing ok with your explanation richard until here. No matter how many times i try i cant get that brush tool to go black...i have black at the front & also tried hitting D to make sure black is at the front.

    I just get this pinky coloured pale red headscratch.gif

    Not to worry. That's how it shows up when you make the mask visible. I should have mentioned that. Sorry.

    Carry on.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
    rsinmadrid wrote:
    I don't have a tutorial link, but I'll take a crack at giving instructions. It's pretty easy, reallly. Be warned though...I have never tried Shay's action and don't know what it does, but these steps should apply to all layer masks.

    1. Select the layer that contains the image pixels.
    2. On the layer menu, select Layer->Layer Mask->Reveal All
    3. In the layer palette, click on the white mask icon in the layer you have selected.
    4. In the channels palette, make the layer mask visible by checking its little box. You won't see a change yet, but stay tuned.
    5. Select the brush tool and set the foreground color to black.
    6. Now paint over the area that you want excluded from action. Remember, black on a mask means blocked, white means exposed.
    7. Now click on the image icon in the layers palette. The mask will no longer be visible on your image, but it's still there.
    8. OK, that's it. You can now use Shay's action. Anything that you do to the layer itself will be excluded from the area you have masked (that is, the black part of the mask).

    Depending on the image, it may be faster to select Hide All when you create the layer mask, then paint in white to expose only certain areas. The result is the same.

    Hope this helps.


    I just wanted to say thanks to you. I just saw this................copied it to an e-mail, sent it to myself and put it in my file of "photo how tos". I do that so I can put the subject as I want it.

    Hopefully that folder will not get so big that I can't find anything.

    I use layer masks, I just don't know what to do with the term...silly, but true. I am desperately trying to figure out what to do by terminology, when I have a chance.

    Also, black/white..................well, they don't work for me. I have to use the eraser. I do that usually after using a gradient filter.

    I will keep trying on the black/white thing.

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • saurorasaurora Registered Users Posts: 4,320 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
    This is good stuff. I'm somewhat encouraged to know that you better photogs are a little in the dark with masks as well as me!!! Thanks for the instructions, Richard. My problem is I just never can't seem to concentrate on anything new...so I just get by with the little that I know! Most of the time it works ok..but it would be great to get a better handle on masking. :D
  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 22, 2006
    ginger_55 wrote:
    I just wanted to say thanks to you. I just saw this................copied it to an e-mail, sent it to myself and put it in my file of "photo how tos". I do that so I can put the subject as I want it.

    Hopefully that folder will not get so big that I can't find anything.

    I use layer masks, I just don't know what to do with the term...silly, but true. I am desperately trying to figure out what to do by terminology, when I have a chance.

    Also, black/white..................well, they don't work for me. I have to use the eraser. I do that usually after using a gradient filter.

    I will keep trying on the black/white thing.

    ginger
    Yeah, this whole thing had me confused at first. The trick is to understand that the layer mask is always in gray scale. Completely black means completely blocking any modification to the layer; completely white means applying any modification at full strength. Anything gray is somewhere in between. Think of it like the opacity sliders with black at 0 and white at 100%.

    The red bit allows you to see what is being masked in the layer and what is not. If you do the following, it may help to clarify matters some:

    Make sure your layer and channel palettes are open. Open any pic, duplicate a layer and add a layer mask (reveal all) to it. Check the box in channels to make the mask visible and select the mask icon in the layers palette. Using a black brush, paint a squiggle on the pic. It will show up as red. Now deselect the RGB channels so that only the mask channel is visible. The image vanishes and all that is left is the mask itself, which is just your black squiggle on a white background. Now paint on that. The new squiggle will be black, but will show up in red just like the first one if make the RGB channels visible again. Now select the image icon of the layer and make some modification to the layer to convince yourself that the mask really does block the effect.

    Once you have mastered the basics, you can start to use gray scale and gradients to further control the effects. You can also apply blur directly to the black and white mask to make the edge transitions gradual.

    Hope this hasn't confused you further. I'm better at doing things than teaching them, but fortunately there are a few people here who give really clear explanations. And about 20,000 books to read. rolleyes1.gif Personally, I tend to do best just by playing around till I get it right.

    Cheers,
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
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    edited August 22, 2006
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    edited August 22, 2006
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  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 22, 2006
    gus wrote:
    Couldnt resist a quick try. Richard im just not getting it mate. I paint the redish mask on & then go back to my image to remove the tan abbreviation in the spray & its still taking the tan from the chin even though i masked it as you said.

    How do you combine the layers ...just hit 'flatten image' ?

    Tks Gus

    yes, that's what I would do. Can you post a screen shot of your layers palette? Might be a clue there. It might have something to do with the way Shay's action works. I can't help you there.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
    rsinmadrid wrote:
    I don't have a tutorial link, but I'll take a crack at giving instructions. It's pretty easy, reallly. Be warned though...I have never tried Shay's action and don't know what it does, but these steps should apply to all layer masks.

    1. Select the layer that contains the image pixels.
    2. On the layer menu, select Layer->Layer Mask->Reveal All
    3. In the layer palette, click on the white mask icon in the layer you have selected.
    4. In the channels palette, make the layer mask visible by checking its little box. You won't see a change yet, but stay tuned.
    5. Select the brush tool and set the foreground color to black.
    6. Now paint over the area that you want excluded from action. Remember, black on a mask means blocked, white means exposed.
    7. Now click on the image icon in the layers palette. The mask will no longer be visible on your image, but it's still there.
    8. OK, that's it. You can now use Shay's action. Anything that you do to the layer itself will be excluded from the area you have masked (that is, the black part of the mask).

    Depending on the image, it may be faster to select Hide All when you create the layer mask, then paint in white to expose only certain areas. The result is the same.

    Hope this helps.

    I gave it a try with all I had to work on: a photo that I could use a gradient filter on. It worked, kinda, The results were as advertised, but I had to do some things differently.

    1) what do you mean by the layer that contains the image pixels, as when you are first starting. I finally put a background layer on.

    2) I went into the layer menu (on the top tool bar) and I basically selected layer mask to reveal all

    3) clicking on the white mask icon, well are you talking about the triangular blank white space? That did nothing for me, so I finally went to the next step.

    4) That worked

    5) that worked

    6) painting over the area I wanted excluded showed up as white at 50%, it even asked me what percentage I wanted. So, I did not really know if it meant that it was going to cover it at 50% or show thru at 50%. Painting over it, as I said showed up as white, not reddish pink.

    7) Again, clicking on the image icon did nothing. The mask was still there. So I left it there.

    8) I then used the gradient, that was all cool, worked well. And to get rid of the "evidence" I unchecked the box.

    So my results were kind of good...............but the first step on, well, ........what do you think from what I told you. I am on my way out. Wasn't going to comment til later, but I noticed that Gus had commented, so thought I would, too.

    also, at what point do I lose the mask? If I add an adjustment layer do I need to mask it again? If I want a mask, I mean.

    I cannot show you my work thing as I don't know how to snapshot my work space. I am a self taught idiot, smile. Someone told me at one point to ue the print screen key.........that didn't do anything.

    see ya, the results were great! Thanks so far!

    I even bought a magazine because it had this stuff in it. Well, I have a gazillion magazines scattered here and there. So, I am trying to learn, too.
    I really only learn, usually on a need to know basis. I feel comfortable skipping steps and things to see what gets me where. But I can't read a book, or even a chapter and memorize it. I have to do something several times.

    And when someone says to do this or that using a layer mask, I freeze. But when I was erasing, it was showing up on a layer mask, so I assumed that in some way I do use them.

    ginger (actually, what I did is the same as erasing, one is before and one is after)?
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 22, 2006
    Ginger,

    It's getting late here and my brain is a bit fried. I'll write a specific reply to your questions in the morning.
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Registered Users Posts: 3,165 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
    The easiest way I know to edit the Manual Fringe Correction Layer is to make a layer mask by clicking on the button shown here:

    cfra-make_layer_mask.jpg

    You will then have a new area (the layer mask thumbnail) on the layer pallet that looks like this:

    cfra-edit_layer_mask.jpg

    Then just use a black brush to draw on the areas of the correction layer you don't want active. If you make a mistake, simply change the brush color back to white and draw on the areas you want active again. In the next example picture, I have painted the whales body (for clarity), all the areas that are black will not show the color fringe removal. Of course your use would be more selective.

    cfra-edited_layer_mask.jpg

    When you have the correction layer the way you want it, click on the main image layer thumbnail and your brush will revert back to the way and color you had it before you started working on the layer mask.

    cfra-done_layer_mask.jpg
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  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
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  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited August 22, 2006
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    edited August 22, 2006
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  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,954 moderator
    edited August 23, 2006
    ginger_55 wrote:
    I gave it a try with all I had to work on: a photo that I could use a gradient filter on. It worked, kinda, The results were as advertised, but I had to do some things differently.
    OK, let's see if I can help:
    ginger_55 wrote:
    1) what do you mean by the layer that contains the image pixels, as when you are first starting. I finally put a background layer on.
    Actually, it could be any layer that you wish to modify only parts of. If it is an adjustment layer, it will automatically contain a mask. If not, you need to add the mask to the layer.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    3) clicking on the white mask icon, well are you talking about the triangular blank white space? That did nothing for me, so I finally went to the next step.
    The mask icon is a white rectange next to the thumb that is in the layer palette. When you click on it, a small black frame appears around the icon and the selected channel changes from RGB to the layer mask. That's the only visible change at this point. If you then click on the image thumb in the layer palette, the frame on the mask thumb goes away and the selected channels switch to RGB. This lets you switch back and forth between editing the layer itself and editing the layer mask.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    6) painting over the area I wanted excluded showed up as white at 50%, it even asked me what percentage I wanted. So, I did not really know if it meant that it was going to cover it at 50% or show thru at 50%. Painting over it, as I said showed up as white, not reddish pink.
    OK, the color and percentage that you are dealing with here only apply to the way PS displays the mask when you make it visible by checking its little channel box. You can choose any color you like. Red is the default, but depending on the image itself, you may want to select a different color. The percentage controls the opacity of the mask display. The actual mask is always a gray scale, where white is completely transparent and black is completely opaque.

    The purpose of the red (or whatever color you choose) display is to let you see the image and the layer mask at the same time. If you are just looking at the mask, you can't tell what part of the image it is hiding or revealing. So you would paint the mask with the RGB and mask channels all visible and the mask icon selected in the layer palette. It will appear that you are painting in whatever color you chose for the mask display, but your brush should be black or white.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    7) Again, clicking on the image icon did nothing. The mask was still there. So I left it there.
    Switching between the image and mask icons only controls whether you have selected the image or the mask to work on. Making the mask visible to you (in red or whatever) is controlled by the mask channel box. The mask is always there unless you specifically disable or delete it in the layer menu.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    So my results were kind of good...............but the first step on, well, ........what do you think from what I told you.
    Hey, if it did what you want, that's all that matters.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    also, at what point do I lose the mask? If I add an adjustment layer do I need to mask it again? If I want a mask, I mean.
    The layer mask only affects whatever is visible in that layer. If you add additional layers on top, they can have a different mask or no mask at all if you like. If you want to add an adjustment layer with the same mask, the quickest way to do so is to right-click on the mask icon then choose Add Layer Mask to Selection. Then create the adjustment layer. You will see that it is created with the same mask you created. Neat.
    ginger_55 wrote:
    And when someone says to do this or that using a layer mask, I freeze. But when I was erasing, it was showing up on a layer mask, so I assumed that in some way I do use them.

    ginger (actually, what I did is the same as erasing, one is before and one is after)?
    A mask is sort of like erasing, except that it is much easier to undo little by little than using the history brush if you erase too much. Once you really understand how masks work you can also apply blur to the mask itself. This lets you make much smoother transitions from the modified to original parts of the image than you can with the eraser.

    Hope this helps.
  • ginger_55ginger_55 Registered Users Posts: 8,416 Major grins
    edited August 24, 2006
    Thanks, Richard, I used it last night and it worked like a dream. One strange thing happened, though. I changed back to an older external hard drive as I needed to finish a project. My computer got confused and reconfigured my Photoshop CS2, so all my settings were lost.

    Consequently, when I went to use the layer mask, the mask showed up a reddish pink, etc.

    also, I clicked on the thumbnail of the photo on the layer with the mask to hide the mask, but the mask was still there. I put on an overlay. Had to do it several times to get the overlay color correct, but the mask stayed there protecting what I had painted.

    I am curious about why I would need to understand the procedure to use blur for a nice fade in. I haven't tried it, but well, I would think I could just use a recipe as I do for everything else. My brain gets "sore" and "tired". Eventually a lightbulb goes off, and I understand, but the process usually precedes the understanding.

    I use a feather of about 75% just as a default, never change it, not recently. That allows just about everything to flow w/o problems.

    thanks so much! It really worked nicely!

    (it just occurred to me, since all my setting were put at PS's default, it is possible that last night I was working w/o any feathering. Interesting, still worked like a dream. I did so many photos it became second nature, however they were large classic parts of the photo I was excluding, only wanting to overlay on the background and stuff. And I always, usually, only want a slight color shift on the background, so any blending defects would not have been noticeable. Neutral colors and all.)

    ginger
    After all is said and done, it is the sweet tea.
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