UHHH... I'm a big fan of the idea behind Foveon, I think it rocks.
But even from the teaser picture the cam looks super cheapy plasticy just like the SD10 and SD9, and the Sigma mount??? don't get me started. Only Foveon camera I will ever own will say 3D on it :P (if it is more than rumor) Sigma needs to concentrate on making glass as good sharp as Canon's a OS system that doesn't drain power and designs resistant to CA (and all at half the price of Canon glass), not some niche odd ball toy body with the most brilliant idea in sensor design since CMOS. FREE FOVEON!!!!
Was there something there? I didn't have the patience to wait for the thing to load. It's a character flaw, I know, but why do web designers think it's a good idea to make people wait while their ridiculously large flash presentations load?
Was there something there? I didn't have the patience to wait for the thing to load. It's a character flaw, I know, but why do web designers think it's a good idea to make people wait while their ridiculously large flash presentations to load?
It's a marketing gimmick, in this case. But I tend to agree with you
I like the idea behind Foveon. I thought they were going exclusive with
Sigma for a time but would otherwise open sales up after that period
expired. Anybody know if other mfg'ers have made any decision to try
the sensor?
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Pretty pictures, wonder how much truth there is to it?
Pictures
I was watching picture on a mag it was advertisement of a littel camera i was shocked and i thought i should sale my camera to get that until i noticed a small thing written on cornor "Image shown not shot with this camer" :uhoh
One more person told me Sony was showing portrait of Afghan girl written a big R1 in cornor
Whole world know that it was shot in 80's when digi was not even born
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
I like the idea behind Foveon. I thought they were going exclusive with
Sigma for a time but would otherwise open sales up after that period
expired. Anybody know if other mfg'ers have made any decision to try
the sensor?
Ian,
According to Foveon (http://www.foveon.com/ click on the "cameras with X3"), Polaroid and Hanvision use the technology.
While the concept of the Foveon is interesting, as is some of the Fuji technology, I think there is still a lot of life left in Bayer chip manufacturing, and I bet there are many wonderful advances that we should see in the next few years.
my thoughts on the foveon
While I do think that there's a lot of life left in the Bayer pattern, the Foveon is tasty on so many many levels.
First, you could actually do binning with this camera. Binning is the process of using neighboring pixels to make a 'superpixel', as in, 2x2 pixels combine, like voltron, to create a large pixel. The large pixel is faster to read, because there's less of them, and also about 4x as sensitive to light, since it's bigger. Noise can be tricky, depending on how the A/D is handled, but essentially binning gives you cleaner, bigger pixels for free. If you had a 16 megapixel camera, but 2x2 binned to a 4mp shot that covers the same size (ie, no central crop a la d2x) but also gave you 4x the sensitivity (ie, 100 iso to 25 iso), that seems like a good deal to me. Binning is hard (not impossible, but hard) to do with a bayer filtered detector, because you have to do a 4x4 area. With a normal bayer camera, a 2x2 region is already used to get color information over an area; 4x4 would be needed then in order to get the benefits of binning, but aliasing may be a real drawback. Plus, your 16 mp camera becomes 1 mp, which isn't so hot.
Second, and maybe my understanding of bayer mask interpolation algorithms is wrong or not up to date, but shouldn't there be less color fringing with a foveon? Some color fringing is the lens, but some is also from the interpolation algorithms used to change the r/g/g/b bayer pattern to be rgb at each position.
Third, you could use the foveon as a black and white camera really interestingly, I think. Essentially, you could just add all the values from each channel, weight for white balance of the shot, and then get an extra stop (or more) of sensitivity for your black and white shot (3 channels added-> 3x more signal than just one channel). Current bayer patterns can already produce very nice black and whites (as we see here in this forum, with the postprocessing that's pretty awesome), but I'd conjecture that this technology might make b&w shooting easier. I have no evidence for that particular hypothesis beyond it's own truthiness, though.
I mean, the picture of the lips is intriguing and all, but I don't see how it's any different than what you can get today. What I'd want to see is that the interesting aspects of having all pixels stacked on each other with a resulting greater preservation of real resolution, rather than bayer interpolated resolution. Basically, they need to have binning in the sd-14, or it's just another camera.
According to Foveon (http://www.foveon.com/ click on the "cameras with X3"), Polaroid and Hanvision use the technology.
While the concept of the Foveon is interesting, as is some of the Fuji technology, I think there is still a lot of life left in Bayer chip manufacturing, and I bet there are many wonderful advances that we should see in the next few years.
ziggy53
Neither of which offer anything of real interest.
I agree with you that there's a lot of life left in the current chips. Kinda like
when everybody said "no way you'll get any more than 1200baud out of
the telcos"
Ian
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I like the idea behind Foveon. I thought they were going exclusive with
Sigma for a time but would otherwise open sales up after that period
expired. Anybody know if other mfg'ers have made any decision to try
the sensor?
Personally, I can't wait to see the specs on this one
I have always loved the Foveon "look" that SD9/SD10 shooters get. Not too crazy about no jpgs right out of the camera and the poor high ISO performance. But man do I love the film-like/3D-like look of Sigma images
I have heard that this one will have a 5mpxl or greater sensor At the price it should go for and equiped with a couple of EX lenses (I agree with Doc on their quality ) I would definitely entertain the idea of using it as mainly a landscape tool to supplement my 20D.
Not too big an announcement. I'll be anxious to see the formal and user reviews.
JPG out of the camera and better software seem to be the biggest improvements, with a bit more resolution for either 1 size larger prints, more detailed prints or more cropping ability. Still a teeny-tiny frame buffer.
2640 x 1760 pixels native resolution (4.6MP) with 4608 x 3072 - Interpolated?
Interpolated = Marketing Hype!
I'm sorry, but it's just sad when companies use high gross pixel count, either real or interpolated, to sell cameras. It is the "quality" of the pixels that matters more than the count. At least the memory card manufacturers should be happy with these humungous files eating up storage space.
The next few years should be interesting for Sigma, and for Sigma camera users.
Comments
UHHH... I'm a big fan of the idea behind Foveon, I think it rocks.
But even from the teaser picture the cam looks super cheapy plasticy just like the SD10 and SD9, and the Sigma mount??? don't get me started. Only Foveon camera I will ever own will say 3D on it :P (if it is more than rumor) Sigma needs to concentrate on making glass as good sharp as Canon's a OS system that doesn't drain power and designs resistant to CA (and all at half the price of Canon glass), not some niche odd ball toy body with the most brilliant idea in sensor design since CMOS. FREE FOVEON!!!!
My Gallery
http://www.pcolive.com/article/200608/29/686539.html
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Sigma for a time but would otherwise open sales up after that period
expired. Anybody know if other mfg'ers have made any decision to try
the sensor?
Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes
Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
Pictures
I was watching picture on a mag it was advertisement of a littel camera i was shocked and i thought i should sale my camera to get that until i noticed a small thing written on cornor "Image shown not shot with this camer" :uhoh
One more person told me Sony was showing portrait of Afghan girl written a big R1 in cornor
Whole world know that it was shot in 80's when digi was not even born
My Gallery
Ian,
According to Foveon (http://www.foveon.com/ click on the "cameras with X3"), Polaroid and Hanvision use the technology.
While the concept of the Foveon is interesting, as is some of the Fuji technology, I think there is still a lot of life left in Bayer chip manufacturing, and I bet there are many wonderful advances that we should see in the next few years.
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
While I do think that there's a lot of life left in the Bayer pattern, the Foveon is tasty on so many many levels.
First, you could actually do binning with this camera. Binning is the process of using neighboring pixels to make a 'superpixel', as in, 2x2 pixels combine, like voltron, to create a large pixel. The large pixel is faster to read, because there's less of them, and also about 4x as sensitive to light, since it's bigger. Noise can be tricky, depending on how the A/D is handled, but essentially binning gives you cleaner, bigger pixels for free. If you had a 16 megapixel camera, but 2x2 binned to a 4mp shot that covers the same size (ie, no central crop a la d2x) but also gave you 4x the sensitivity (ie, 100 iso to 25 iso), that seems like a good deal to me. Binning is hard (not impossible, but hard) to do with a bayer filtered detector, because you have to do a 4x4 area. With a normal bayer camera, a 2x2 region is already used to get color information over an area; 4x4 would be needed then in order to get the benefits of binning, but aliasing may be a real drawback. Plus, your 16 mp camera becomes 1 mp, which isn't so hot.
Second, and maybe my understanding of bayer mask interpolation algorithms is wrong or not up to date, but shouldn't there be less color fringing with a foveon? Some color fringing is the lens, but some is also from the interpolation algorithms used to change the r/g/g/b bayer pattern to be rgb at each position.
Third, you could use the foveon as a black and white camera really interestingly, I think. Essentially, you could just add all the values from each channel, weight for white balance of the shot, and then get an extra stop (or more) of sensitivity for your black and white shot (3 channels added-> 3x more signal than just one channel). Current bayer patterns can already produce very nice black and whites (as we see here in this forum, with the postprocessing that's pretty awesome), but I'd conjecture that this technology might make b&w shooting easier. I have no evidence for that particular hypothesis beyond it's own truthiness, though.
I mean, the picture of the lips is intriguing and all, but I don't see how it's any different than what you can get today. What I'd want to see is that the interesting aspects of having all pixels stacked on each other with a resulting greater preservation of real resolution, rather than bayer interpolated resolution. Basically, they need to have binning in the sd-14, or it's just another camera.
PBase Gallery
"Seeking clarity: Image sensors peer into a blurry future"
http://www.edn.com/article/CA450596.html
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
JMPO...
Neither of which offer anything of real interest.
I agree with you that there's a lot of life left in the current chips. Kinda like
when everybody said "no way you'll get any more than 1200baud out of
the telcos"
Ian
Who knows? Sigma hasn't released any information yet about the SD14.
Both previous Sigma dSLRs (SD9, SD10) were Sigma SA Bayonet mount. That would be a safe bet for this model as well.
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
There are a couple of industrial cameras (one application is for machine vision) using Foveons that you can see on www.alt-vision.com.
Other than those and the Sigmas, no other camera manufacturers are listed in www.foveon.com yet.
I have always loved the Foveon "look" that SD9/SD10 shooters get. Not too crazy about no jpgs right out of the camera and the poor high ISO performance. But man do I love the film-like/3D-like look of Sigma images
I have heard that this one will have a 5mpxl or greater sensor
It might be Christmas in September....lol
Steve
Not too big an announcement. I'll be anxious to see the formal and user reviews.
JPG out of the camera and better software seem to be the biggest improvements, with a bit more resolution for either 1 size larger prints, more detailed prints or more cropping ability. Still a teeny-tiny frame buffer.
2640 x 1760 pixels native resolution (4.6MP) with 4608 x 3072 - Interpolated?
Interpolated = Marketing Hype!
I'm sorry, but it's just sad when companies use high gross pixel count, either real or interpolated, to sell cameras. It is the "quality" of the pixels that matters more than the count. At least the memory card manufacturers should be happy with these humungous files eating up storage space.
The next few years should be interesting for Sigma, and for Sigma camera users.
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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