Good buy?? Sony DSC R1 cyber-shot

modular

Hi all,

I’m looking for a camera to be my next best friend.
After much research and internal debate I am 90% fixed on the Sony DSC R1
I am but no means a pro but I did take a six month photography course in my time at university. In this time I gained most of my experience on an old (but awesome) 35mm Minolta SLR with great rokkor lenses. I think it was an MD1, or was that the lense... anyway, manual mode with wide angles and aperture preview was sooo much fun. Unfortunately for me this gem or a camera was a loaner.
From this I discovered the world of wide angle and... I love it.

Much to my dismay I found that most DSLRs have a cropped Field of View, effectively shrinking wide angles. Great if you are a tele shooter, but not for me. Sure I could ditch the lens kit just buy a fast wide lens to go with a DSLR, but I need to buy a second hand small car first.. $$cha chiing$$


Sony's R1 seems to be an ace performer among fixed lens "dig cams". Of course this depends on what you are looking for in a camera. The R1 gets the tick for a wide angle lens, high ISOs with low noise (not as good as DSRLs though and hopeless at ISO3200), a top quality lens (fast at wide end and only a little distortion), RAW output, good long exposure with noise subtraction (as opposed to noise reduction) and a reasonable shutter release lag (again DSLRs are at warp speed in comparison).


Other niceties are the mechanical zoom, live preview and the reasonable quality Electronic View Finder (good, but not a patch on a TTL). As yet I have only handled in-shop cameras and have had little chance to see how the EVF performs when using manual focus.

This raises a question for me. Has anyone had experience manual focusing the R1 in varied conditions? Can you use both framing mode and preview mode while focusing?


Any other opinions on this camera? Yes, I know it is heavy, has a lousy burst function, 'only 5X zoom' and sluggish auto focus (esp. in low light) but these factors are not high on my priproities anyway. I’m not going to be shooting weddings or sports more than once a year at best. The camera was critisized for being too expensive when compared with entry DSLRs but now it retails for US$200 less than when it was 1st released late '05. Good news for me, but is it because Sony can't sell them, or just market forces?

What do you say? Am I barking up the wrong tree with a the R1? Is there a new R model in the horison that might be worth the wait?
Is it the gem that I think it is, or a broken coke bottle making out to be a diamond?

Cheers,

Rich:thumb

cmason

modular wrote:

Much to my dismay I found that most DSLRs have a cropped Field of View, effectively shrinking wide angles. Great if you are a tele shooter, but not for me. Sure I could ditch the lens kit just buy a fast wide lens to go with a DSLR, but I need to buy a second hand small car first.. $$cha chiing$$

Rich:

as I have quoted above, one key rationalization for the R1 is that DSLRs have a cropped field of view. This is true, compared to a full frame 35mm. HOWEVER, the R1 has a slightly more severe cropped field of view that most DSLRs, as its sensor is slightly smaller than most entry DSLRS.( it is 21.5mm x 14.4mm vs 23.7 x 15.7 mm for the Nikon D70 for example). The crop factor does not mean you do not get wide angle, it simply means the wide angle is not the same FOV as a similar FOV on a full 35mm frame. See this for more info. Also, DPReview has good info as well.

More importantly, with a fixed lens camera like the R1, you have no way of solving for the wide angle issue, since YOU CANT REPLACE THE LENS! At least with a DSLR, you can simply go purchase a wide angle lens. I think a DSLR is far more flexible. Not to mention, less noise, no shutter lag, more ISO options, etc etc etc that you list above. Frankly, I see no advantages at all to the R1. Heck the Live View can be had on an Olympus DSLR for far less $$ and with all the flexibiliy of a true DSLR. Perhaps this is the reason the R1 has been reduced in price, though I suspect the Sony A100 has some impact as well, as even it makes the R1 look a bit out of water.

If you want a high-end Point and Shoot that gives you DSLR control for the times when you feel like 'messing with it' then the R1 is a good platform. But if you want to relive the joys of creating images that you got with your old Minolta, go for a DSLR. All DSLRs these days include full Auto mode, so when you just want to take pictures like a P&S, you can do that.

The DSLR should not cost more than the R1. You can get plenty of entry systems like the Canon XT, or the Nikon D50/D70 for good bargains, and if you buy the body only, you can then decide what lens you can afford to start with, even a 17-200 to give you both wide and tele.

ziggy53

Rich,

You have done your homework on the Sony R1, and it has some qualities that are pretty awesome compared to any other digicam.

The lowlight capabilities alone distinguish it to be special, but the lens is extraordinary, and compares to the best in the business.

Another thing to distinguish this camera is the ability to sync flash up to 1/2000th. I believe this is unique in this sensor size.

If you do a search for "Yuri" on Digital Grin, you will see just how extaordinary this camera can be as a portrait tool.

On the other hand ...

It has never been cheaper to buy a dSLR. You can pick up a brand new Pentax K110D, without lens, for $460USD. Then you can pick up a Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC, which gets you superwide to wide angle images, if that's your thing, and you are still close to budget. You also have something more expandable for other uses.

Or you could purchase an older Minolta A2/A200, which has a very good lens by itself, and get an accessory lens ACW-100, to give an equivalent of 22.5mm of surprisingly high quality. You also get image stabilization, but you sacrifice high-ISO.

So you do have choices, but yes, the R1 is a very good camera and would be a very good choice.

ziggy53

hgernhardtjr

cmason wrote:

More importantly, with a fixed lens camera like the R1, you have no way of solving for the wide angle issue, since YOU CANT REPLACE THE LENS! At least with a DSLR, you can simply go purchase a wide angle lens.

So, cmason, can you tell me what a VCL-DEH08R Sony lens is? While you are correct in stating "you can't replace the lens", you are incorrect in stating "you have no way of solving for the wide angle issue".

Sony, Raynox, and others manufacture front-end wide angle and tele lenses for a wide variety of cameras. On my F828 I use just such a lens quite successfully, thank you. In fact, I have even used the same front-lens-filter-thread DCR-250 I got for my F828 with one of my Canon lenses for closer macrophotography.

Nonetheless, I have a variety of Canon and Sigma lenses for use with my Canon dSLR bodies — and I agree with the intent of your post and even more strongly agree with ziggy53 re the falling dSLR prices.