Yikes --- My prints came out dark!

Oakley

OK, I suppose I haven't thought much about the difference between my monitor and my prints --- until I decided to order the "calibration" print through smugmug along with a few shots from my brothers wedding.

They arrived --- and boy am I in trouble.

It is clear that my monitor is MUCH brighter than the real deal and I have no clue if my colors are right either. NOW I realize the amount of wasted nit picking on photoshop has been a big waste of time. Crap. OK, move on --- I just need to fix it, right? Right.

So I read the calibration pages in smugmug help and Andy's tutorial on soft-proofing. Uh-oh, photoshop elements 4.0 doesn't allow soft-proffing. Now what? I tried the Adobe Gamma wizard through Windows and that wasn't much help.

What do I do? I don't have lots of $$$ to buy the expensive tools to calibrate my monitor --- but I'll sacrifice if I have to.

Or do I just have to watch my histogram and the RGB numbers and learn to not trust my eyes. Ohhh...that sounds awful.

Any help? Thanks.

And please move this to the right forum if I've got it wrong.

Andy

Oakley wrote:

What do I do? I don't have lots of $$$ to buy the expensive tools to calibrate my monitor --- but I'll sacrifice if I have to.

One thing you could do, is spend only $75 and get the Huey: http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1174347

Andy

Oakley wrote:

Any help? Thanks.

Oh and keep that order #handy. I'd like to see you rework those images, and then I'll do a reorder for you, no charge of course. It's all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

And, if you want me to work on one for you/with you, I'd be happy to.

Oakley

Andy wrote:

Oh and keep that order #handy. I'd like to see you rework those images, and then I'll do a reorder for you, no charge of course. It's all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

And, if you want me to work on one for you/with you, I'd be happy to.

You'll allow me a reorder for no charge even though I specified "true" color? Not saying I won't take it, but aren't the poor prints my fault???

Andy

Oakley wrote:

You'll allow me a reorder for no charge even though I specified "true" color?

Our Guarantee is our guarantee. Doesn't matter if you used True or Auto Color. We want you to be happy! Holler at me when you're ready

Oakley

Andy wrote:

One thing you could do, is spend only $75 and get the Huey: http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1174347

Hi Andy, as always you have been a tremendous help. And, as always, I have another question:

OK, I photoshopped some photos, made them look good on my screen, and then printed with "true" color turned on --- as we now know, those photos came out dark on paper. Now my questions is: If I print those same photos with "Auto" color turned on, will they print out lighter? Assuming I haven't made any changes to them...

I'm just trying to figure out If I should put a "hold" on all printing until I calibrate my monitor, or if it will be alright if people printed using "auto".

Thanks

Andy

Oakley wrote:

Now my questions is: If I print those same photos with "Auto" color turned on, will they print out lighter? Assuming I haven't made any changes to them...

Yes, they will. The biggest issue for true color prints is exposure. Monitors are getting brighter all the time but prints never change, so it fools many photographers into thinking their photos are adjusted correctly, only to have them come out too dark with true color. Here's a help section about that:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/too-dark

The second is shadow detail. Prints don't have the dynamic range between darkness and light that monitors do. So we bring up the shadows some on autocolor. And skin tones end up being more pleasing. It's why so few labs offer a true color option anymore.

Oakley

Andy wrote:

Yes, they will. The biggest issue for true color prints is exposure. Monitors are getting brighter all the time but prints never change, so it fools many photographers into thinking their photos are adjusted correctly, only to have them come out too dark with true color. Here's a help section about that:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/too-dark

The second is shadow detail. Prints don't have the dynamic range between darkness and light that monitors do. So we bring up the shadows some on autocolor. And skin tones end up being more pleasing. It's why so few labs offer a true color option anymore.

So I guess the "true" color should be handled with care. Unless you're sure that your monitor is calibrated, and that you've checked your histogram for reasonable levels.

But I suppose, for me, I spend so much time tweaking my photos, I feel I don't want some "auto" thing to come in a screw my shots up. But that's a bad way to think and it sounds like the "auto" will only improve my shots.

I think I'm starting to understand. And I think I'll fork out the bucks for that calibration do-hicky. It's worth it. AND, I think I will use smugmug's guarantee and get my photos reprinted. But I should wait until I get the new hardware. The guarantee is 30 days, right?

marlinspike

Andy wrote:

One thing you could do, is spend only $75 and get the Huey: http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1174347

Huey seems neat. Any idea if it works on laptops that used shared video memory (i.e. laptops on which a getrag macbeth eye-one display 2 doesnt work)?

Andy

marlinspike wrote:

Huey seems neat. Any idea if it works on laptops that used shared video memory (i.e. laptops on which a getrag macbeth eye-one display 2 doesnt work)?

I do use my Huey on my Macbook Pro, if that helps?

claudermilk

I can't imagine it makes any difference where the memory is. The calibrator is just sending a specific signal to the video output, reading what it gets back & adjusting the color look-up table (LUT). That table is then placed between the apps & the video card to adjust the signal so you see what the app thinks its sending you--at least that's my understanding of how it basically works. In the end any hardware-based calibration is better than Adobe Gamma.

Oakley

Hey Andy --- So I bought the Huey today and calibrated my monitor. I've got the smugmug callibration print in hand and as my wallpaper...and it's certaintly better, but I wouldn't call it exact. The colors in the fruit on the print, for example, just look more...colorful, you know what I mean?

So is this just the best I can do and I should just move on? If the answer is yes, I'm willing to do that cause I know it's better than it was...

[edit] --- at second glance, the prints I recieved through smugmug from my own pictures are still significanlty darker than my screen. Even after the calibration. Was that just a waste of $100???

Thanks for your help.

Andy

Oakley wrote:

Hey Andy --- So I bought the Huey today and calibrated my monitor. I've got the smugmug callibration print in hand and as my wallpaper...and it's certaintly better, but I wouldn't call it exact. The colors in the fruit on the print, for example, just look more...colorful, you know what I mean?

So is this just the best I can do and I should just move on? If the answer is yes, I'm willing to do that cause I know it's better than it was...

[edit] --- at second glance, the prints I recieved through smugmug from my own pictures are still significanlty darker than my screen. Even after the calibration. Was that just a waste of $100???

Thanks for your help.

Ryan, pay close attention to the shades of grey, and the deep shadows, in particular the light saber.

Have you reworked files, and then ordered some new prints? Can't be that fast Send me, c/o the help desk, a link to some before/after files and I'll see how you are doing, ok?

Oakley

Andy wrote:

Ryan, pay close attention to the shades of grey, and the deep shadows, in particular the light saber.

I'm not sure what you mean. Am I supposed to be tweaking my screen after the Huey does it's thing??? Sorry, I just don't understand...

Andy wrote:

Have you reworked files, and then ordered some new prints? Can't be that fast Send me, c/o the help desk, a link to some before/after files and I'll see how you are doing, ok?

I haven't touched my files because I don't trust my monitor yet. See above.

Thanks for your patience on this Andy...

Andy

Oakley wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean. Am I supposed to be tweaking my screen after the Huey does it's thing??? Sorry, I just don't understand...



I haven't touched my files because I don't trust my monitor yet. See above.

Thanks for your patience on this Andy...

Hi Ryan,

You should run the huey, and then process a few real-live shots. Then send me a gallery link, help@smugmug.com ATTN: Andy, and I'll review how you did

OK?

Oakley

Andy wrote:

Hi Ryan,

You should run the huey, and then process a few real-live shots. Then send me a gallery link, help@smugmug.com ATTN: Andy, and I'll review how you did

OK?

Email sent.

Andy

Oakley wrote:

Email sent.

Yep, got it and I'll review it Tuesday morning.

double6

Huey/Autocolor and display darkness
Andy,
I read the thread with you and Oakley regarding image darkness. The part I am wondering about is this. On my MacBook, the images appear as I want them before I upload them to my website. When I view the website on a PC, the images are really dark. Does this Huey device calibrate my monitor so that it more closely resembles what 99% of the population sees on their monitors/PC's?
I need to be confident that what I am seeing and uploading is what others see on their monitors....
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Chris

Andy

double6 wrote:

Andy,
I read the thread with you and Oakley regarding image darkness. The part I am wondering about is this. On my MacBook, the images appear as I want them before I upload them to my website. When I view the website on a PC, the images are really dark. Does this Huey device calibrate my monitor so that it more closely resembles what 99% of the population sees on their monitors/PC's?
I need to be confident that what I am seeing and uploading is what others see on their monitors....
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Chris

Hi Chris, lappys can be troublesome due ot the angle viewed. But if you are consistent in your viewing angle, then that's cool..

Read this and holler back with questions - Short answer, yes, Huey will do just that

http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2007/02/14/this-is-your-mac-on-drugs/