13" Printer, which one?

Poseidon

I am looking for a new printer to do an occasional 11x14, or 13x19 as the case may be. I have had a couple of HP printers that served me well for an occasional 8x10 or smaller picture that I needed NOW. Well I wan to upgrade, but I want to keep the budget in the $400-$500 range.

Looking at the available choices:

HP PS8750, at $399 price wise it looks attractive, but I have not seen one locally, nor a print sample from it. This printer also offers network printing, so I could print from my laptop as well as my desktop. However it uses cartridges instead of individual tanks like other printers in this price range.

Canon i9900, at $419.99 it also is in the low end of my budget. The biggest knock on this printer is print life expectancy. Is ChromaPLUS actually a new longer lasting ink, or is the same old thing. Over on FM, the i9900 has pretty good reviews. No network option, and another knock is this an "older" printer, and is probably going to be replaced right after I would buy one....

Epson R1900, this one is the high side of the budget at $499.99. Epson has a tremendous reputation, but I have never had one. This one offers individual inks, like the Canon, but reviews say it is quite thirsty. No network option. However this printer offers roll paper options and though I have never printed a panorama picture before, it might be cool to have that option.

Anyway, I would really appreciate any feedback that you guys can give me, I want to make the right purchase on this, and not feel like I should have bought this one instead....

THANKS in advance!

JBurt

Poseidon wrote:

I am looking for a new printer to do an occasional 11x14, or 13x19 as the case may be. I have had a couple of HP printers that served me well for an occasional 8x10 or smaller picture that I needed NOW. Well I wan to upgrade, but I want to keep the budget in the $400-$500 range.

Looking at the available choices:

HP PS8750, at $399 price wise it looks attractive, but I have not seen one locally, nor a print sample from it. This printer also offers network printing, so I could print from my laptop as well as my desktop. However it uses cartridges instead of individual tanks like other printers in this price range.

Canon i9900, at $419.99 it also is in the low end of my budget. The biggest knock on this printer is print life expectancy. Is ChromaPLUS actually a new longer lasting ink, or is the same old thing. Here on FM, the i9900 has pretty good reviews. No network option, and another knock is this an "older" printer, and is probably going to be replaced right after I would buy one....

Epson R1900, this one is the high side of the budget at $499.99. Epson has a tremendous reputation, but I have never had one. This one offers individual inks, like the Canon, but reviews say it is quite thirsty. No network option. However this printer offers roll paper options and though I have never printed a panorama picture before, it might be cool to have that option.

Anyway, I would really appreciate any feedback that you guys can give me, I want to make the right purchase on this, and not feel like I should have bought this one instead....

THANKS in advance!

Take a look at this thread. http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=3130
Or
I'm using Epsons and my next one will be the R1800.

W.W. Webster

Poseidon wrote:

Here on FM, the i9900 has pretty good reviews.

Help me, I'm feeling disoriented!

Poseidon

!!!!

Sorry, I copied and pasted.

W.W. Webster

Poseidon wrote:

!!!! Sorry, I copied and pasted.

You're excused!

LuckyBob

My information may be a bit out of date since the last low(er) end Epson I've gotten to play with was the R1800 (still kicking around with my 2200 at home), but when I used to teach classes at my old job regarding post processing and printing, one thing came up over time which gave me slight pause at recommending Epson's Ultrachrome line hands-down; they're finicky.

A lot of the people I taught whom were getting into the digital realm and had a bit to much money to spend got a dSLR and one of the Epson Ultrachrome printers since several of my coworkers and myself had done so, but didn't foresee the learning curve that comes with color calibration and paper choices.

When people asked me which printer they should get, I usually responded with something along the lines of, "the Epson's will give you the best prints of your life, and the worst." If you're expecting fantastic results right out of the box, the Epsons may or may not deliver, whereas the i9900 (in my experience using it) seemed to do fairly well without much effort. It feels like it's fairly easy to ruin a print on the Epson if a setting isn't correct or the wrong paper profile is used - especially on my 2200, although I know it's "out of date" by Epson's standards today - but when they're set up correctly, the results are astounding.

jww

Poseidon wrote:

I am looking for a new printer to do an occasional 11x14, or 13x19 as the case may be. I have had a couple of HP printers that served me well for an occasional 8x10 or smaller picture that I needed NOW. Well I wan to upgrade, but I want to keep the budget in the $400-$500 range.

I have used Epson's for several years now and have always been happy with the quality. I especially like how on larger thicker stock that the paper path more like a typewriter and not 180 degrees like on others.

I first had an Epson 400 (well my memory thinks it was 400) and then went to the Epson 1280 for the last 4 -5 years and was amazed as well as others that saw them at how well it would perform... That was until I saw some output from the R1800. It just pales the 1280 in comparison. I just purchased one a few weeks ago and have been completely blown away by it. The only thing that kinda bugs me about Epson's is their print drivers. Seems like every new printer I have to relearn how to fake it out when I want a certain sized border etc.. while enlarging to a particular paper size... I do quite a few different graphics projects that isn't just printing a picture (posters, awards, signs etc..) I have gone nuts at attempting to outthink the print driver. For example on the 1280 I was doing awards for the local SCCA. I had an exact 5 x 7 document and it took quite awhile to figure out what settings would print the thing borderless and remain the same 5 x 7 image. Most of the time it would attempt to enlarge it and crop almost a half inch!!

I haven't done anything like that yet on the R1800, but I noticed they R1800 driver they removed the centering option they used to have on the 1280 and 400. It took awhile to figure out how to make it work for me. I still have some learning to do, but the print quality is AWESOME!!!

fyi.. it was on sale at Best Buy!

jww - jwwWebDesign.smugmug.com

cmason

Can't advise you on which particular model of printer, but I have a Canon printer now (i850), and am looking for a better model to replace it with.

I have done lots of research, read reviews, and gone to look at them at stores. But Looking at them at stores, however, is what convinced me to go with Epson, regardless of printer model I choose. The reason? The supplies: Epson has an order of magnitude more options in terms of paper than anyone else. The Canon display takes up maybe 2ft, and HPs is basically consumer oriented. But Epson takes up some 20 ft at my local Compusa, with 10 different paper styles in 8x10 size, plus specialty papers, etc. Just amazing.

Poseidon

K I am back on this trail again....

I bought an Epson, but the R340. My wife didn't want to put out the cash for the top o the line a couple months ago, but now that we are BOTH dissapointed in the 340, I am looking to replace it.

The options have changed little in the last 3 months, with the exception of Canon replacing the i9900 with the 9000 Pro and the upcoming 9500 Pro. Why did Canon go with 2 different inks on these printers? The 9000 is Dye based (I don't even know if that is good or bad) and the 9500 pigment based.

Right now I am leaning towards the Epson, as my albums for next year hold 10x10's, and the Epson has a roll paper option that will make the paper cost of each 10x10 about 42 CENTS! I am sure the ink will add some to that, but still that is a GREAT price!

Anyway, does anyone have a Canon 9000, as compared to the R1800? I think I have eliminated the HP option, and I am down to the Canon and the Epson, but it is like 70/30 in favor of the Epson printer....

CatOne

I've got my sights set on an Epson 3800 -- they're a lot smaller, footprint-wise, than the 4800s.

I may get the professional edition, which comes with a RIP for an extra $200, in the hopes that I can avoid Epson's *awful* print drivers and dialogs on the Mac. They are horrible... getting them set properly and not having settings randomly change (ARGH... THIS WAS SET TO PREMIUM LUSTER HOW DID THE SETTING ON THE 4TH DIALOG CHANGE TO PLAIN PAPER I RUINED ANOTHER PRINT!!!!!1) will become a thing of the past.

I have an R800 now and it works great... but the ink cartridges are small and it's *always* out of a particular color and the print dialog thing... we'll let's say I never print fewer than about 10 prints at a time because the first 5 are throw-aways as I correct the mistakes I always make.

DavidTO

Save your money/time/peace of mind and get your prints done professionally. I've given up on printing at home. Way too much of a PITA and the ink is outrageous. Life is better, living simply.

gluwater

Poseidon wrote:

Why did Canon go with 2 different inks on these printers? The 9000 is Dye based (I don't even know if that is good or bad) and the 9500 pigment based.

Dye based ink is absorbed into the paper, it is not archival or water resistant but it produces more vibrant colors. Pigment based ink sits on the top of the paper, it is not absorbed so it can be more prone to scratching but it is archival (HP B9180 has been tested to last 200+ years), water resistant on certain papers, but can be duller than dye based inks. It looks like the pro printers are starting to become all pigment based. Good luck.

Poseidon

Thanks David and Nick for the input.

I did buy an R1800 the other day, and so far I am very pleased. I have not printed a 13x19 yet though, I am waiting for paper from Officemax.com they are having a buy one get one free sale on Epson paper! No rolls, but I did get 2 boxes of "Enhanced Matte".

I don't know if I will do the 10x10's myself or not, I will have to give it a try and then get the same pictures printed from my local lab, and compare.

If nothing else, I am finally HAPPY with prints I get at home, and that is important to me.

Ric Grupe

DavidTO wrote:

Save your money/time/peace of mind and get your prints done professionally. I've given up on printing at home. Way too much of a PITA and the ink is outrageous. Life is better, living simply.

That's actually not bad advice!

I guess one would not get that "look what I did" satisfaction that way, though.

So.....maybe do the smaller ones at home and send out for larger sizes.

DavidTO

Ric Grupe wrote:

That's actually not bad advice!

Sometimes I get it right!

marlinspike

ChromaPlus is actually a new ink and it does actually last longer than the old BCI inks. It's still not as good for longevity as the Epson long life printers, but it's pretty good. The trick is you have to use canon paper and inks (or epson paper and inks in the case of the epsons) to get the long life. You can also get long life with Kodak Ultima paper and any ink, but it didn't work well with the BCI inks, and I have yet to try it with the ChromaLife inks.

bassed

I'm looking into the Canon i9900 myself. I've seen it do some incredible prints and I could use it for 11X17" mini Sets of construction documents, but I'll likely have to buy 2 different printers and or 1 printer and 1 plotter.

DavidTO

Ink: $10,000 per gallon.


Just sayin.

Poseidon

I know this may sound crazy, but I want to do the prints. If I send everything off to the lab, I lose some of that "loook what I did" feeling. Call it instant gratification I guess. Also, there are times when I need a print NOW! The local options for same day printing are not that good in my area, (Sam's Club) and sometimes waiting 2-3 days for a print to get shipped to me, then wait another day or to for it to actually get here, and that is a weeks time. With my R1800, I can print a pro level photo in a matter of minutes.

Now don't get me wrong, I am going to be cost conscious, I have another thread asking about the 100' rolls and my printer. I have also been searching for a CIS, besides the ones on E-Bay that I am to scared to buy....

kwcrow

Best printer Cost/Print is Canon that use BCI-6 cartridges.

DavidTO wrote:

Ink: $10,000 per gallon.


Just sayin.

Go with the Canon i9900. Cost for 3rd party ink is incredibly cheap because there is no microchip in their print cartridges. Here is a link for 99 cent cartridges http://www.2for1imaging.com/i9900.html. Get paper at costco ... 8.5X11 Photo paper 150 count $18 ... 4X6 Photo Paper 300 Count $14. 8.5X11 Cost/Print ~35 Cents. 4X6 Cost/Print ~11 Cents. Going this route was the only way to make it feasible to me. Some name brand cartridges run $30-$40. How can people afford this. I have a 6000d(6 Cartridges) which uses these same cartridges as the i9900(8 cartridges) and the prints look very good. As good as Walmart or Costco processing.

Poseidon

DavidTO wrote:

Save your money/time/peace of mind and get your prints done professionally. I've given up on printing at home. Way too much of a PITA and the ink is outrageous. Life is better, living simply.

Okay.... I was just able to put myself, and my printer to the test. The results were not good for the printer.

I just got an order for a parent album, 20- 5x7's. I went thru my regular process of cropping and sizing the images to 5x7, I did the color correction, I removed the facial blemishes, etc etc... I added a step into my work flow, I opened a new 8x10 blank page, and placed 2 5x7's on each page. So I ended up creating 10 new files for printing, this step added maybe 10 minutes to the regular workflow. From here I lined up all the new files, and started printing. I made it to the second page..... And stopped!

After spending at least 3 hours getting my color to match the monitor, using a few different images for samples I thought I was ready.... NOPE. My second page looked like crap, it actually had those little lines running thru the image!

I have printed MAYBE 10 8x10's and a handful of 5x7's, a couple wallets... This is disappointing. I thought I could be a one stop shop, and not depend on anyone else, well that is certainly not the case. I am going to box up the R1800 and take it back, as DEFECTIVE!

I will hook up my R340 again, and use it to print when I have to do an occasional print for the kids or something, other then that, I am back to the LAB.

I guess this is just one of those things that I had to go thru myself, to learn. Maybe if I had a Canon iPF5000....... Nah I better not go there!

DavidTO

Poseidon wrote:

My second page looked like crap, it actually had those little lines running thru the image!

I'm obviously no expert on this, as I gave up the ghost long ago, but you should check your print quality settings. If you get those right, the lines should go away.

Or you could just return it...

Poseidon

The print quality settings are what I spent so much time on. Those I know are set right, I do have to hand it to Epson, I like the print driver that comes with the printer, you can set up several different prints quality settings and select the appropriate one from a drop down.

I haven't brought the box outta the basement yet, but I will before bed! That puppy is going back for sure!

Now what do I spend that money on next.... Hmmm..... Maybe an 85 1.8, or maybe some RAM for the MacPro...

gluwater

By those little lines I assume you are talking about banding? If you had banding that means one of your print heads was clogged, not putting down the correct amount of ink, therefore throwing your color off. Did you try to clean the print heads before you boxed the printer back up?

Poseidon

gluwater wrote:

By those little lines I assume you are talking about banding? If you had banding that means one of your print heads was clogged, not putting down the correct amount of ink, therefore throwing your color off. Did you try to clean the print heads before you boxed the printer back up?

No I didn't. I have only had the printer since Sunday, and I have been printing daily, so I didn't think the head would be clogged. (I haven't printed a LOT, but I have printed something.) The thing that got me is the first page of what came out was fine, no banding, but the first image on the second page did have banding. If the banding was there on the first page, then I would say it needs to be cleaned, but after printing one page very well, why would the banding come up on the second?

Poseidon

Okay... I ran the utility cleaning, print head alignment, etc etc....

I will give it one more try, maybe I will keep the beast for the occasional print afterall, maybe I will take it back in favor of something else. Guess I have a flip flop attitude on this one today.

marlinspike

Sometimes banding can also result from the colors not being in the gamut of your printer. I assume you are using photoshop? Go to view, proof setup, custom, set it to your printer profile. Them from view select gamut warning. IIRC you have to do this each time you look at an image, so get familiar with ctrl+y and shift+ctrl+y

Poseidon

Yes, I am using PS CS2, I will give that a try.

I guess I should have anticipated a larger learning curve then I have. I want to be fair to the printer, as I have read many good reviews on it. So far the prints I have been getting from the printer look nice, but they don't quite match my screen.

Here are a couple issues I have been having:

Green! Like foliage, especially. It looks flat compared to the monitor.

Blacks! Like in a tuxedo lapel (sp?). If I dink around with the contrast and brightness to get the subtle shade difference in the black tuxedo, then I change the colors of bridesmaid dresses. The image I was using for a test was taken outside, against a green background, with pale green bridesmaids dresses, and the MOH wore a deep purple dress.

I get the best results using PS to control colors, and I set the profile to sRGB. If I use my monitor profile, then the images are to dark. If I let the printer control the colors then the blacks look worse then in sRGB!

Maybe I need a fresh set of eyes on the images, I am getting pretty frustrated.

DavidTO

Your printer will never give you exactly what the monitor does. It's just the nature of RGB vs. CMYK. If you soft-proof on the monitor you'll get closer, but it'll never be perfect.

Poseidon

I can understand that there will be a difference, but not as large as what I am seeing right now.

I have a print made from Millers that I am using as comparison to what I get from the printer. In some areas what comes off the R1800 is better then what I get from the lab, in others the lab color is better.

The area's where the lab wins, are the greens, and blacks. My printer actually looks better for skin tones.

It just seems to me that there has to be a way to get the blacks and greens to come out better!

gluwater

Poseidon wrote:

I can understand that there will be a difference, but not as large as what I am seeing right now.

I have a print made from Millers that I am using as comparison to what I get from the printer. In some areas what comes off the R1800 is better then what I get from the lab, in others the lab color is better.

The area's where the lab wins, are the greens, and blacks. My printer actually looks better for skin tones.

It just seems to me that there has to be a way to get the blacks and greens to come out better!

Are you using the correct paper profiles? If you are not then you can have disasterous results or just one or two colors being off. If you are using a third party paper brand you can have it custom profiled for $30-$40 per paper. It could also be that the labs color gamut in those colors is larger or they are color correcting your file, kind of like smugmugs "Auto color" option. Do you know anyone that has the same printer, or a local store that might have a demo model set up that you could try to get a sample print of your image from? A couple days ago I got a sample pack of paper and used the wrong profile on the first sheet I printed, I was disapointed with the print but then went back and changed the ICC profile and voila, it looked beautiful. Good luck and sorry you are having so many problems.