Hey Art (or any other Minolta users)... gonna pick your brain for a minute! What flash did you use with your A2, and what do you use with your 7d? I can't swing the 5600 because they go in the $400 range and that just ain't gonna cut it. Both the minolta 3600 and the Sigma EF 500DG Super are in the $2-230 range and that is more my budget. Any advice there? Seems to me either would do the trick, but I really don't want to find out the hard way.
Matt
Oh so correct on the 5600...I paid around 275 for mine (5600hs) that is why I did not buy any other brand...also it was the most powerful for its size....hoping to replace my sunpak 622's with the 5600's.
I do have the 5600HS and also 2 - Sunpak 622 supers ......I kept the 622's just for weddings and outdoor portraits, actually for anything I may require studio power where there aint no power (bad grammar on purpose)....Look to Ebay or here in the FLEA MARKET.......I have een lucky with ebay..but it is a chance your taking buyig used....just make sure you can return it if it doesn't work like you want.
bummer yes, but I'm glad you have a good memory!!! Sunpak and a 2gb 150x card it is!!!
another stupid question. When shooting from a tripod I don't need to remove the braket to mount right? Do all/most bars have a threaded insert for the tripod. sorry so stupid, I've never shot with a braket before.
matt
Most STROBO FRAME brackets do have a tripod mount...also so do Custom Brackets.....My preference is to make sure the camera rotates and not the flash......and that the flash stays centered over the lens......the bracket I now use is Stroboframe and raises my flash about 8 inches above the camera..my previous (still own, just don't use) was quite a bit shorter, but I needed the x-tra height for the 622's
OK guys... more great info. I saw a few dual flash bars and I assume they must make either a "splitter" for the pc cable or the units can be daisy-chained somehow but I will research that on b&h more. Not sure I want to get into a dual flash rig but I guess we'll see.
Funny, but out of all of this stuff the only thing that makes me really nervous is the friggin flash bracket. I have seen pictures taken by photographers using an adjustable bracket that had a dark shadow line running through them (the photo's) rendering them completely unusable. I don't really know what happened, but I assume that the photographer (a "pro" btw) had the flash itself missaligned or was somehow out of sync. Maybe the flash was set to zoom? Maybe they were trying to bounce and didn't know what they were doing? Maybe the bracket was damaged... I don't know but I want to avoid that kind of an issue! As I said before I have never shot with a bracket and have always found it was OK for my purposes just using a taller flash mounted on the hot shoe (no red-eye anyway)... I really didn't plan on a bracket even though I have seen that listed everywhere as "essential gear", but only for that reason. Any tips in that regard?
The above, makes me think a non pivoting bracket will be best for me (if only for peace of mind!) but thoes brackets don't really put the flash over the lense (as Art recomended). Getting the flash over the lense makes perfect logical sence, but I am sure I have seen it off to the side many times... is this (heavy shadowing due to miss-alingment/use of a flash with a bracket) a common error? Shooting digital, and as long as a bracket is not a wobbly piece of crap, I will know right away if this is an issue, but to even miss one shot this way would be disheartning to me ESPECIALLY since I know there is potential for this type of problem and I have the means to gain the knowlege to avoid it.
Man... questions keep popping into my head!!! Thanks for keeping up with all of this!! You folks must be rolling your eyes by now !
If I wanted to use that Sunpak 383 flash you recomended (Ziggy) on the hotshoe, can that be done? (not nec for the wedding but for general use) Do I still use the cable? Since this flash is not a program flash am I going to be manually setting the flash like I do with the flash on my xg1, or is there some level of automation?
I assume the "credit card" diffuser that Ziggy mentioned is that little plastic clip on thing that goes on the top of the flash, right? What about thoes difusers that look sorta like a little foam sock? I've never used bounce techniques either, and I plan on hitting Barnes and Nobles (2-year old gift card!!) this afternoon for a book (or 2) that should cover a lot of that stuff. I don't recall ever really considering how the backgrounds were or weren't lit with a flash, and I know that can really change the impact of a picture.
One thing that makes me feel pretty good about these flash issues is that I can create many oppertunities to simulate a wedding reception and practice... Just a good excuse to go to the bar and bring my camera!!!
Another question I've had is using studio lights/reflectors for the formals. I've seen it done both ways at weddings I have been to, and I'm sure I could rent a studio lighting rig for a day. Any comments there? Maybe that type of lighting requires different technique and it would be best for me to keep it simple? I already have enough to learn and practice!
Sorry I'm asking so much of you guys... trying to heed Ziggy's advice from a few posts up. Lighting technique is going to be very important and now is as good a time as any to start drilling you guys. Even if ultimately I'm just proving my overwhelming newbieness. At least I am also proving my desire to learn!
I have seen pictures taken by photographers using an adjustable bracket that had a dark shadow line running through them (the photo's) rendering them completely unusable. I don't really know what happened, but I assume that the photographer (a "pro" btw) had the flash itself missaligned or was somehow out of sync. 99.9% of the time this is caused by being out of sync...if it had been a mis-alignment it would have been a black shadow to one side or the other around the body somewhere top bottom..etc....but it would be fixable in PS....In my film days it was dodged out of the enlargements.
Maybe the flash was set to zoom? Maybe they were trying to bounce and didn't know what they were doing? Maybe the bracket was damaged... I don't know but I want to avoid that kind of an issue!
If it were the bracket showing up in the pic it was because the photog had the upright bar running thru centerline of lens.....I think almost impossibe to do by accident:D
As I said before I have never shot with a bracket and have always found it was OK for my purposes just using a taller flash mounted on the hot shoe (no red-eye anyway)... I really didn't plan on a bracket even though I have seen that listed everywhere as "essential gear", but only for that reason. Any tips in that regard?
At the very begining a bracket is awkward, but once you get used to it, they are great....now if they would only make on that rotated camera by the touch of button and weights several ounces less.....boy am I dreaming...
The above, makes me think a non pivoting bracket will be best for me (if only for peace of mind!) but thoes brackets don't really put the flash over the lense (as Art recomended). Getting the flash over the lense makes perfect logical sence, but I am sure I have seen it off to the side many times... is this (heavy shadowing due to miss-alingment/use of a flash with a bracket) a common error?
The heavy shadowing can be caused by the flash not being center over the lens or by having the flashes power on manual and full power and not using a flash meter for correct exposure......if the flash is centered over the lens there can be heavy showing in the lower back part of the pics....unless you are using a studio set up for lighting (front {main} lights and back lights to kill the shadows, then shadows are a PIA that you have to contend with.....take them out on PS....
Shooting digital, and as long as a bracket is not a wobbly piece of crap, I will know right away if this is an issue, but to even miss one shot this way would be disheartning to me ESPECIALLY since I know there is potential for this type of problem and I have the means to gain the knowlege to avoid it.
Man... questions keep popping into my head!!! Thanks for keeping up with all of this!! You folks must be rolling your eyes by now !
If I wanted to use that Sunpak 383 flash you recomended (Ziggy) on the hotshoe, can that be done? (not nec for the wedding but for general use) Do I still use the cable? Since this flash is not a program flash am I going to be manually setting the flash like I do with the flash on my xg1, or is there some level of automation?
I assume the "credit card" diffuser that Ziggy mentioned is that little plastic clip on thing that goes on the top of the flash, right? What about thoes difusers that look sorta like a little foam sock? I've never used bounce techniques either, and I plan on hitting Barnes and Nobles (2-year old gift card!!) this afternoon for a book (or 2) that should cover a lot of that stuff. I don't recall ever really considering how the backgrounds were or weren't lit with a flash, and I know that can really change the impact of a picture.
Unless that background is extremely important to the B / G do not worry about it.....if your subject is properly exposed that background will probably go dark and that just helps with the mood especially if there are loss of candles and flowers in the foreground....
HAVE YOU MADE ANY KIND OF LIST TO SHOOT THAT DAY....IF NOT i WILL TRY AND POST ONE THAT i USED TO USE...IF THE MEMORY ISN'T TOOOOO FOGGED AND i CAN RETRIEVE IT......BUT ESPECIALLY ON THE FIRST COUPLE OF WEDDINGS KEEP IT DOWN TO APPROX 120 PICS OVER THE COURSE OF THE EVENT AND TRY TO LIMIT YOUR TIME TO 3 HOURS TOTAL FROM PRIOR TO START OF CEREMONY THRU THE RECEPTION AMD DO IT IN GROUPS...FOR EXAMPLE GROUP 1 PRE-CEREMONY: BRIDE AND MAIDS
1-BRIDE FULL LENGTH FRONT
2- 3/4 LENGTH
3-1/2 LENGTH
4-HEAD SHOT (ALSO GET ONE WITH HER LOOKING INTO A MIRROR SO YOU GET HERE AND REFLECTION LOKING AT FLOWERS AND 1 LOOKING DREAMILY INTO MIRROR....IF THERE IS AN OUTSIDE WINDOW DO THE SAME AT THE WINDOW.....)
5-8 SAME AS ABOVE EXCEPT YOU TURN THE BRIDE 90* TO WRAP THE TRAIN A LITTLE PLACE THE MAIDS FLOWERS ON THE TRAIN WITH MH'S FLOWERS NEAREST THEBRIDE AND THE OTHERS FOLLOWING THE CURVE OF THE TRAIN.
9-BRIDE AND MH FULL
10 " " 1/2
11 " " PLUS REST OF THE MAIDS
12- ADD FLOWER GIRL
13-16 BRIDE AND FLOWER GIRL (SHOW CLOSENESS...BE CREATIVE)
One thing that makes me feel pretty good about these flash issues is that I can create many oppertunities to simulate a wedding reception and practice... Just a good excuse to go to the bar and bring my camera!!!
The informal party shots are nothing to worry about....the cake shots, toasting, and dances are the ones to be concerned with....just make sure to get pics of everyone sitting at their tables....
Another question I've had is using studio lights/reflectors for the formals. I have done this and it is a PIA unless you have a really good assistant...cause with the formals you shoot post ceremony needs to be done in 20 minutes or less....with an assistant to do the straighten of the train and such 10 - 13 minutes and off to the reception...otherwise people hate to just be sitting and waiting for the B / G to arrive to party.
For now just stick to using one or two flashes (1-front main and 1- for background) preferable battery operated units.
I've seen it done both ways at weddings I have been to, and I'm sure I could rent a studio lighting rig for a day. Any comments there? Maybe that type of lighting requires different technique and it would be best for me to keep it simple? I already have enough to learn and practice!
Yes...keep it simple
Sorry I'm asking so much of you guys... trying to heed Ziggy's advice from a few posts up. Lighting technique is going to be very important and now is as good a time as any to start drilling you guys. Even if ultimately I'm just proving my overwhelming newbieness. At least I am also proving my desire to learn!
THERE ARE 2 WAYS TO LEARN...BY YOURSELF OR TO ASK OTHERS ADIVICE AND USE THAT KNOWLEDGE BASE TO MAKE THINGS SIMPLIER....
I think I have a pretty comprehensive list in the book I just bought, so don't knock yourself out doing the rest of yours if you don't want to. Certainly willing to read it though if you do! I actually just got through the whole wedding proceedure part of this book. This guy warns about autofocusing quite a bit. I can see he is old school in many ways. I'm sure I'll need to do a lot of manual focusing and that is fine... I hope the manual focus on the A1 is more comfortable to use than it was on my 35mm Maxxum... that was a PITA. It was a couple of buttons on the lens. The camera I had before that was a k1000 and it was odd going from twisting a barrell to pushing buttons.
Kinda wondering what is next in this book! Great book. It has really made me think about some good shots I can get regardless of the surroundings. I'm going to just flat-out steal many of his ideas. He approaches things as a "candidman" and instead of always posing people he says things that makes people pose themseves. He is posing, but the subject doesn't always know he is. This bnook is also about how to make a living shooting weddings and he has lots of tips for that too. Not so valuable for me, but for anyone else following along it may be helpful.
Things are a little different in different parts of the country though. For instance you say 20 min of formals and off to the party. Here in Wisco it's formals in the church (with beers tucked behind the alter), to the limo (with a cooler of beer), to the park(s) if weather is good (nothin' like a beer in the sunshine!), then a couple of hours of bar hopping in the limo, then to the party! It is typical for one of the groomsmen to have a drink list he just hands to the bartender of what everyone wants. People usually call ahead to warn the bartender! If there isn't another wedding right after this one, I should have plenty of time for formals in the church. Attendee's usually go home for a few hours between the wedding and the reception.
There is a whole section on lighting in this book, back lighting and such included so I am excited to read that part. I still don't really understand how the 2 flashes are used and how they integrate, but I'm sure that will be discussed in this book.
About every other page the author says "And now it is time to check your flash sync!" The pictures I mentioned btw had about 1/2 the frame almost black if I remember correctly... diagonaly I think from lower left to upper right.
I'll probably end up with one of thoes flippy brackets... I'm going to shoot with the camera some before I buy a flash though just to be sure I like it. Then I'll buy the flash and bracket and start working with them. I would think the bracket would be very comfortable and stable.
As i think I stated in one of my previous posts about the A1/2...the manual focus is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.....cause you ahve to wait for memory to move it to the LCD view finder.....there is no mirror.....if you look thru the finder and rapidily move the carea left ot right or right to left of up and down you'll see a lag time in the view finder....this make focusing on moving objects a PITA......
As i think I stated in one of my previous posts about the A1/2...the manual focus is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.....cause you ahve to wait for memory to move it to the LCD view finder.....there is no mirror.....if you look thru the finder and rapidily move the carea left ot right or right to left of up and down you'll see a lag time in the view finder....this make focusing on moving objects a PITA......
Good Luck.
Ahhh... I get it now. That isn't very good news but it makes sence. The author of this book was talking preset maual though. For the procession and other moving things that are important. Pick a spot on the floor and have the camera set to that spot kind of thing. That may take a bit of practice to get it right, but I can pull that off. I'm sure if I talk to the pastor and the wedding party I can get them to stop during the procession for a photo and then just pray for auto focus on the dad hug. I've seen that done in weddings also.
I guess I'll have to see what happens with the autofocus... It is supposed to be great for moving objects but we'll see. I'll practice thoes things at the corner bar. See... I'm going to make this project an excuse to go to the bar one way or another!!! Be prepared for a bunch of test pics of my drunk friends stumbling at me!
Right before I pulled the trigger on this thing I almost sold some audio gear to fund a "real camera". That thought crossed my mind for about 1/2 a day and so I bought the A1 before I did something rash!! If this thing doesn't work, I will throw it back on the bay along with some audio gear and buy something a bit more respectable. I don't want to do that but I'm pretty committed to making this work one way or another. I don't know how it is with you guys, but the taper crowd tends to buy and sell a lot because we always wonder what it is like on the other side. Mic's and pre's are bought and sold all the time just to try something new. No reason my something new can't be a camera. I just wish I had some more cash to play with, but it has been a tough year.
As i think I stated in one of my previous posts about the A1/2...the manual focus is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.....cause you ahve to wait for memory to move it to the LCD view finder.....there is no mirror.....if you look thru the finder and rapidily move the carea left ot right or right to left of up and down you'll see a lag time in the view finder....this make focusing on moving objects a PITA......
Good Luck.
Well I got the camera. there are some really nice features on this little thing. The autofocus seems to be very good, and the flex point is quite nice. A little slow in dim light but not to bad IMO. Upgrading the firmware seems to have made a pretty good improvement. The continuous autofocus seems like it sould be fine for the wedding that has inspired this purchase, but who really knows.
The evf is extreemly distracting... no way to manual focus (or verify AF) on a moving subject for sure. Even composing the shot on a moving subject is going to be a challange, and with only 5mp resolution, I won't have the pleasure of being able to shoot wide and crop without major compromise.
The Anti-Shake absolutly kicks butt... huge difference when shooting long shutter speeds, but how often is that going to really help me? Originally I was thinking it would be nice for shooting low-light concerts and such but no matter how steady I am, the subjects on stage are moving so shooting long exposure won't be that big of a thrill except shooting inatimant objects....
The retailer I bought this from offered a 7-day return policy. Either way I think he is getting it back because there are either dead spots or dust on the evf, but the question is weather or not I get another one or the cash back, and just bite the bullit on an dslr. I guess I need to do some soul searching over the next few days!
I hate to say it, but you are now finding out why some of use drop the wad of cash on DSLRs. Once you get a P&S out of it's comfort zone it falls apart pretty quickly. Low-light combined with action is a very effective way to reveal these limitations. Good luck on your decision.
I hate to say it, but you are now finding out why some of use drop the wad of cash on DSLRs. Once you get a P&S out of it's comfort zone it falls apart pretty quickly. Low-light combined with action is a very effective way to reveal these limitations. Good luck on your decision.
***edit*** obviously, I was told that by everyone who posted to this thread... I'm just one of thoes people who needs to see for himself. Not to say I don't take advice, but my mind works in such a way that I need to investigate things... I hope knowbody was offended. It has also helped that I'm really starting to get into this and I can see myself getting use out of a nice camera.
************************************************
yeah... I think I will just do it. Still gonna be some compromise but after reading more in this book, I don't think I will need a bag full of lenses... I should be able to get by with a single zoom or maybe a short zoom and a prime tele, or maybe even a short zoom and a 2x tele adapter... do tele adapter's even work on AF DSLRs? Something else to discover I guess! I guess I can sell one of my multitrack units and probably get 5-600 for it. Then my ridiculas budget can be upgraded to puny!!! Woo hoo!!!! I'm movin' on up to puny! I should be able to put together a simple dslr rig for $1k... back to fleabay I guess!
I'll check the flea market here first though. I shure would like to find my way to 10mp, but I don't think I will quite get there at a grand... Maybe 8mp in a lower end body, but from what I've read, the jump from 6 to 8 isn't much of a thrill, so maybe a little better glass or body and stick with 6mp. Decesions decesions...
One thing I though was really cool about the A1 is that it has bracketing. I suppose I could do that manually but that could burn some time... I will have to research that feature. If I do a manual flash, which I think I would prefer once I got used to it, then automatic exposure bracketing would be a nice little safe guard. Raw can help me there though... now the wheels start turning again.
Now that you've (maybe) decided to go for the DSLR route, we can really talk. If I were you, I wouldn't get hung up on mega-pixels. My D70 does just fine a 6mp (everything on my site done with same). You can pick up a D70 pretty cheap on ebay now as everyone is upgrading to D80 or D200. The early canon DSLRs would be even cheaper, I imagine, but be careful as at least one of the early D-Rebels has shutter lag and likes to power down when incative. Maybe you can turn that off, though - you have to ask a canon person.
You mentioned using a tele-converter. Bad idea unless you shell out for an expensive one made by the same company who makes the camera and lenses, although even then your images are going to suffer some light-loss and maybe quality. Better off with a prime telephoto, IMO.
You also mentioned bracketting. The D70 has about a million bracketing options including white-balance, and I'd be really surprised if the other DSLRs do any less, so don't worry about that.
The Nikon D50/D70/D70S and the Canon dRebel 350/XT have one very strong thing in common; a decent flash exposure management system in a very economical body.
The Nikon has i-TTL and the Canon has E-TTL-II. Both are capable and competent in rendering a high percentage of usable automation with a likewise capable flash.
What this means is a good percentage of "keepers" without a lot of fiddlin' with the flash. This is crucial when you are stressed enough with other aspects of the shot.
Another thing both of these systems can share is the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC lens. At around $360USD this thing is a steal. The following images were all made with this lens:
100% crop:
100% crop from above:
Another thing that is common in these images is the flash, a Sigma EF-500 DG Super. While it was used in many different configurations for each of these shots, it shows what a worthy companion it can be.
My personal preference is the Canon XT, because it has 33% more resolution than the Nikon cameras mentioned (mostly usable for cropping) and slightly better high ISO.
You do have to get the appropriate mount for both Canon and Nikon, so don't think that the lens and/or flash you purchase will interchange between manufacturers. It is only that you can get the same "model" lens and/or flash for either camera make.
Another lens I would consider is the standard 50mm, f1.8, from the manufacturer. At less than $100 they are both bargains (Nikon or Canon). They don't replace the lens above, but that extra stop means twice the shutter speed and that can make all the difference in ambient light. (No flash during the ceremony.)
This doesn't cover the long lenses, but honestly, I could shoot a wedding event without one.
I don't recommend buying "used" on these entry-level cameras, unless you know their background. (DGrinners are usually very good about background information.) These are not cameras with the best shutters, and a new shutter box assembly plus installation is an easy $450. Some of the e-bay equipment is just all shot up, and you can't tell by looking at it.
Lenses may be OK to buy used, depending upon the return policy.
Now your only problem is backup. Shooting with a single camera and single lens selection and single flash is just asking for trouble. If you have to, use a film SLR for backup, and enough film to cover all the formal shots.
Now that you've (maybe) decided to go for the DSLR route, we can really talk. If I were you, I wouldn't get hung up on mega-pixels. My D70 does just fine a 6mp (everything on my site done with same). You can pick up a D70 pretty cheap on ebay now as everyone is upgrading to D80 or D200. The early canon DSLRs would be even cheaper, I imagine, but be careful as at least one of the early D-Rebels has shutter lag and likes to power down when incative. Maybe you can turn that off, though - you have to ask a canon person.
You mentioned using a tele-converter. Bad idea unless you shell out for an expensive one made by the same company who makes the camera and lenses, although even then your images are going to suffer some light-loss and maybe quality. Better off with a prime telephoto, IMO.
You also mentioned bracketting. The D70 has about a million bracketing options including white-balance, and I'd be really surprised if the other DSLRs do any less, so don't worry about that.
Fred.
Hey Fred,
Thanks for the comments. I have already worked out the return on the a1, and I will be putting my older multitrack rig up for auction tonight. Kinda leaves me stripped down in my audio recording stuff, but I guess that is OK. I can still multitrack, just with a few less channels. oh well!
The megapixel race... I understand your point, but I guess I view it this way. A higher mp body is going to give me quite a bit more crop flexibility. Lets face it, I am not an overly experienced photographer and I will take all the help I can get in postproduction! Am I not looking at this the right way? I know the actual resolution between 6mp and 10 isn't really that much, but if I can grab it shouldn't I?
Both the sony a100 and the canon 400d are (barely) within my range new with kit glass. After doing a little more reading on wedding photography, it seems that I will be just fine with an 18-55ish f/3.5 lens. The shots that will demand more tele power or speed than that are really not the critical ones (durring the service mainly) and a larger image size means more crop, so maybe that evens things out a bit in the zoom dept. With the canon I get superior performance at higher iso's which will help the lense speed and the sony gives me anti-shake shick will help me lower shutter speed a bit... maybe thoes things wash as well. Media cost isn't a concern in the least these days... $40 shipped for a 2gb cf card is just crazy! BTW newegg.com rocks for flash media.
I'm going to the local camera shop to hold a few today and see how they actually feel to me. That will most likely influence my decesion also. Please post a link to your site and I will check it out. That kind of thing can influence me as well.
Yes, DSLRs have many bracketing options. In general there are more settings available to you than in a P&S which is one of the strengths. You get to select the correct lens for the task at hand, etc., etc.
As has been mentioned already, MP rating is one of the less-important parameters. There are still a lot of Canon 1D's out there producing great images at 4MP--and those 4MP are cleaner than some 10MP shots from new P&S.
Since budget is tight, look at the XT instead of the XTi. Since it's not hte latest & greatest, prices should be plummeting and it's still a great starter camera just like it was a month ago.
A final thought with going for a DSLR: It opens the possibility of renting pro-level lenses (for Canon 24-70/2.8 & 70-200/2.8IS seem to be the defacto wedding kit); you get top-quality glass for the event for probably around $60 and can see if those are something you want to budget for later.
Hit my site to see what a 20D with 50/1.8 can pull off. The Dance portfolios use one of three lenses in 99% of the cases: 50/1.8, 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8IS.
If you want to see my photos, there should be a link in my signature below. Most everything with Nikon D70, but a couple of the sports shots with the Canon 10D.
I do understand your rationale for wanting more MP, and if you can afford them, get them, but I think any extra bucks is better spent on lenses or a good flash that works well with the auto functions of the camera. Either of those will have a far greater effect on your eventual image quality, and your flexibility, than a couple of MP.
That said, the two cameras you mentioned look great. I'd probably go with the Canon because their sensor just seems to be the best, especaially at high ISO. Also, the Sony does not power up instantly. Minor, but if it costs you a shot, well... Third, I have no idea how good Minolta glass is. People here can tell you that Canon glass is damn good. I'm sure that's even more true once you get into high end stuff if you ever get more $erriou$. Somone please correct me if Minolta glass is superb and I'm just ignorant.
I would also like to agree with Ziggy that if you go Canon, the 350D will be cheaper than the 400D and I'm not sure you'll notice a difference between 8 and 10mp. Apparently, it's not as much of a leap as 6 to 8.
No matter what, you're a good guy for giving up a piece of recording equipment to make sure this wedding goes off well. They should have a collection for you at the door.
Thanks guys.
I just stopped by the local Circuit City on my way to work. They had the a100, the xti, the xt, the d80, the d50 (no lense so I didn't play with it), the 30d (no chance of me affording it so I stayed away) and the pentax istD. The Nikons felt best in my hand... not as contoured, but with most others it felt like my pinky was just barely hangin on the bottom. I don't have big hands. I could probably get used to it.
The d80 was way sweet but is going to be out of my range. Nice big beefy "man camera" for sure. The xti focused the fastest. As fast as you can say "zzzt" it was on the subject. No goofing around, not in and out before it locked, just "zzzt" and you were on. It is faster than the xt. The d80 had a bigger chunk of glass so that may have made a big difference, but the xti was faster and more precise. Sony was no slouch though... it was pretty acurate and quick.
The thing that got me thinking most however was the pentax... it was clearanced at $317 after a $100 rebate with the kit glass . I could actually swing that sucker for my initial budget! However, it isn't in the same league that any of the others are, but it pushed my cheap button. Unfortunately there isn't a formal review on it over at dpreview, so it is hard for me to compare it to the others, and Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee so no chance of playing with it for a few days unless I commit to buying from them. the rest of the camera's were a little bit pricier.
.
AS for the flash... When ziggy frist recommended a manual flash setup for the A1, I was a little apprehensive. I have owned 3 35mm film cameras and 2 of them had manual flash. I had some blown shots for sure, but not all that many, and many of which could be saved if I had raw (or spent the dough on decent processing at the time!)
This guy who wrote the book I'm reading is quite oldschool. He shoots medium format film with a manual flash. He warns agains technology in a lot of places in the book. Part of that is he is old school and that is just his way. Part of it has a lot of value though.
From the stand point of metering, a white wedding gown in a sea of black tuxes has got to be tough for any type of program flash. Instead of automating through technology, the author automates through procedure. For instance, he knows that if his guide number is 80 @ 100 iso, and his distance is 10', he then divides the distance into the guide number which gives you f/8. Ok so doing calculations by the foot is tough, but he automates this by using preset distances from his subjects. 10' is f/8, 15' is 5.3, etc. Down a stop for a difuser, add the distance from the flash to the ceiling for bounce, up a stop for small white rooms and maybe a few other little tips I'm forgetting.
He has lots of reasons for recomending this method, cost being one, and his hatred for the companies that try to push you into their overpricesd program flash, but the reason that makes the most sence is that he is now calculating his exposure on the distance alone, which according to him is much more acurate.
After reading all of that it doesn't seem like rocket science. Shutter speed won't matter as long as I can sync to the speeds I want to use. Composing a shot while maintaining a preset distance with a zoom lense isn't rocket science. Sure I may have some varience in the depth of field but a quarter turn of a small zoom lens isn't going to make that big of a difference. It all actually sounds pretty easy to me, and it sounds like a good reason to buy an $80 120 guide flash over a $400 flash with 2/3rds the juice. Maybe, here again, I am over simplifing things but it seems easy to me.
Good points on the mp vs quality... that is a tough call to make. 6 vs 8 or 8 vs 10 is probably no biggie but 6 to 10 is a pretty big jump. That xti really gave me the jollies... not everything a man could want, but it is a nice camera.
Good point on the backup camera ziggy. I still have my xg1 w/ a 50mm f/1.4 and a 80-200 f/4.5 that I will be blowing the dust off of in the near future. I will burn a couple of rolls with that between now and then to refamiliarize myself with it but I'm going to pray I don't need it at the wedding!!!
Matt
**edit* thanks for the excelent examples Ziggy. Jim, Nice pics. I like your litte wedding selection. Your pictures were very flattering of the bride especially... I think that is probably an art all in itself.
Hit my site to see what a 20D with 50/1.8 can pull off. The Dance portfolios use one of three lenses in 99% of the cases: 50/1.8, 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8IS.
Good stuff Chris. The dance shots are wonderful. Some of the lighting is bordering on spectacular actually. the two dancers back to back (TribalTique) shot really apeals to me. Screams "Wallflower in the shadows" kinda thing.
Did you use flash? Was stage lighting pretty intense? Was it just straight white light from the stage? Lighting seems to be comming from the left side mostly but very little shadowing overall. If you didn't use flash, did you do a lot of white ballance adjustment in post? Raw?
Sorry for the barage... I'm learning here! Lighting effects are something I'm really trying to prepare myself on...
Just a couple of thoughts..........
I've been in your shoes before. I actually shot a wedding with a Sony F717 and Sunpak 383 flash. I kept saying no until a few days before the wedding. I even told them I wasn't going to show up. But it was a case of my pics vs. no pics. I used a Stroboframe and an Omnibounce on the flash. With the flash pointed to the ceiling it eliminated the shadows you sometimes see with direct flash. I shot everything in manual mode. Make sure you shoot some test shots on site before the wedding day to make sure you know what your camera and flash settings need to be. You don't have time to experiment on the big day. Make a list of the shots you need to take so, hopefully, you don't forget some. Get someone to assist you in gathering up folks and helping to set up if you're going to take formal shots. Check your ISO setting. You don't want to shoot in ISO800 and have noisy pics. Make sure your flash has recycled before the next shot. I may be repeating something you already know, but it doesn't hurt to double check. I was a nervous wreck by the time I finished shooting. I have great admiration for people who do weddings for a living. By the way, my pics turned out amazingly good despite the nut behind the camera. I'd post some but I'm on dialup. Good Luck.
OK... a few thoughts here. Looking at my budget of $1100
Option 1
program flash $230
flash bracket $50
sync cable $50
quality glass 28-70ish/f2.8 $400
2gb card $40
total before camera $770
amount left over for camera $330
With this option I could do the pentax deal at circuit city or possibly a used 300d, though I haven't seen a body go that cheap yet. Other than that I am stuck.
Option 2 manual flash $80
flash bracket $50
sync cord $50
2gb card $40
Total amount before lens and camera $220
amount left over for lens and camera $880
With this option I can get the xti and use kit glass (899 shipped) and only be $20 over budget, or get the sony (848 shipped) and stay within budget. As an additional wrinkle on this I could probably find a way to shoe mount a non ttl flash on the camera and save enough to rent decent glass, although I'm not sure if I can really do that with either of these cameras.
Option 3 program flash $230
flash bracket $50
sync cable $50
2gb card $40
total before camera $370
amount left over for camera and lens $730
this option lets me get a new 350d with kit glass ($699 shipped) and have about $20 in my pocket.
Option 4
Manual flash $80
flash bracket $50
sync cord $50
quality glass 28-70ish/f2.8 $400
2gb card $40
Total amount before lens and camera $620
amount left over for lens and camera $480
This would certainly buy me a 300d used... mabe a refurb w/ warranty. I could maybe find a decent lense for less... there are some cheaper sigma's that have the right numbers but they are just so cheap ya gotta wonder! If I could get a dexent lense for 300 that puts me up closer to a 350d which is more in my comfort range... If I can get 8mp I want it, but if I can't get fast glass I want the cannon for it's higher iso quality.
Couple other notes... there aren't any local places where I can rent gear. I would have to go to Chicago which is a big pain in my ass. I could ship back and fourth, but with insurance and all that will double my rental cost.
Which is the lesser of the evils at hand?
no bracket
kit glass
cheap body
manual flash
used body
3-4hrs of hell in a car driving to chicago to rent glass during rush traffic twice.
Arghhh!:help
would you guys really take a bottom of the line or potentially "used up" body so that you could use better glass and a program flash?
Would you guys forgo an 8 to 10 mp jump and more acurate autofocus for program flash?
I guess I'm still leaning toward either the 350d or the 400d with kit glass. the kit glass is going to give me less quality. This I know, but by how much? I know I won't get the zoom I will want, but I can crop a fair amount from a 8 or 10mp image and atlest make respectable 4x6 prints from it. The shots at the service are truly the least of my worries. Coming in and coming out I will use flash, and hopefully the pastor will let me flash for the ring and the kiss too (we all know the rest of the people in the building will!) I know I won't have the speed in the lense, but the canons do such a nice job at higher iso's that shooting at 400 in a canon should be about the same as 100 in many other that I am considering. Then on top of that, if I go with the 400d I get a camera body that isn't already old news, I get wonderful AF that will surely help my sorry a$$, and in the end I have a nice firm base to start with so I can add glass and other things later without feeling the want for a new body right away.
I am not going to try to offer up advice on camera gear for ya, I'll leave that to the experts since I am still learning myself.
What I can do is offer shopping advice... Don't settle for the asking price.
If one store won't budge, and it's a common enough item to get anywhere, go somewhere else. When a sales clerk tells you, "I'm sorry I can't... " or "I'm not authorized to..." save his or her time and ask (nicely) to speak to a manager or someone who can authorize it. There's room to negotiate. Always. If there isn't, walk out and go elsewhere. Even online has wiggle room (most big retailers have 800 #s). I got my Sony 3 days after it hit the market for $100 less than they were asking simply by saying, "I want a better price" at Best Buy. (Best Buy has an ~awesome~ return policy btw, nothing like Circuit City. They also don't gouge you on warranties like CC).
Another thing to consider, if you go with a popular camera, is Costco or Sam's Club. Check the prices on their websites and if they're good, and I know Costco has a great return policy as well, find someone who is a member to get you in there to buy it.
And then there's closeout's and store closings... Comp USA recently closed a local store here and were liquidating all their cameras. Eventually 2 lucky folks (because they only had 2) got Canon 20Ds (or is it D20?) for 20% off the retail price, which was already somewhat competitive, and they were still covered by manufacturer and the store chain's warranty.
Personally, I love Best Buy. It's quick, no-nonsense. I just walk up to my favorite manager, he asks what I want to buy and then he looks up what the lowest he can go to is. Easy. Tell them you're a member of "Reward Zone", regardless if it's true, you only need the manager to sign the price change approval paper, and they'll be even kinder. (Reward Zone rocks btw - cash back for your purchases)
Anyway, I've rambled long enough. I just wanted to encourage ya to shop around (obvious, I know) and don't settle for the asking price (pretend you were raised by bartering gypsies!) if you can avoid it. Good luck with your project!
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Good stuff Chris. The dance shots are wonderful. Some of the lighting is bordering on spectacular actually. the two dancers back to back (TribalTique) shot really apeals to me. Screams "Wallflower in the shadows" kinda thing.
Did you use flash? Was stage lighting pretty intense? Was it just straight white light from the stage? Lighting seems to be comming from the left side mostly but very little shadowing overall. If you didn't use flash, did you do a lot of white ballance adjustment in post? Raw?
Sorry for the barage... I'm learning here! Lighting effects are something I'm really trying to prepare myself on...
matt
Thanks. Your lighting will probably be easier than what I usualy deal with.
No flash in those at all (I have yet to purchase one. After glass comes a 580)--part of why I chose a 20D. About 98% of those shots were at ISO3200; the first day at that even was RAW...then I noticed how fast I was filling up my PD70X, and switched to JPEG the rest of the weekend. I have a WhiBal and shot that to set a custom WB; the lighting was just white lights on the stage. There was actually little PP in all those. Have I mentioned the 20D at 3200 rocks?
For the rest of the dance galleries, shot RAW, ISO3200, usually a WhiBal shot--though that's often pointless with gelled lighting. My normal challenge is the lighing techs seem to all have a boner for red gels, which we all know will cause havoc with the very-sensitive red channel, so I spend PP time pulling back red while trying not to bork up my color balance. RAW in Bibble helps immensely there. In the EEMED gallery you will see a redheaded dancer in a red costume, with--surprise--all red-gelled lights. Shooting RAW saved me there.
With flash, you have it much easier since you can just set WB to flash and pick your aperture to be in the sweet spot of the lens (thus making a kit lens viable).
Would you guys forgo an 8 to 10 mp jump and more acurate autofocus for program flash?
I'd say, yes, forgo the extra 2mp for a program flash. The stuff you mentioned about doing flash calcualtions based purely on distance is nice, but there are too many variables and I think that's the sort of thing that takes a lot of practice to get good at. I think a program flash will make more of your shots useable.
I'd say, yes, forgo the extra 2mp for a program flash. The stuff you mentioned about doing flash calcualtions based purely on distance is nice, but there are too many variables and I think that's the sort of thing that takes a lot of practice to get good at. I think a program flash will make more of your shots useable.
Thanks Chris for the detail... very helpful.
As for the 2mp... I took a cf card to CC tonight and shot some on both the xti and the xt. Not sure what happened, but I only got the xt shots on the card. Probably best though, because I really like the quality. The gorgeous salesgirl allowed a shot, so I got a nice closeup to check skin tones and facial detail. I'm very impressed with both the size of the image and the resolution. The AF missed a few but it was still quite fast and acurate. That xti is mighty fast, but this is no joke either.
I think I will take E's advice and do the program flash with the xt. I'm going to make do with the kit glass. Not Ideal, but the lesser of all the evils most likely. I do want to put the manual flash techniques mentioned in this book to use, but not at the expence of the job at hand. I can still do thoes things with the program flash when/if I feel comfortable. Newegg.com has the xt in black for $699 w/ the kit glass and a bonus 2gb cf card. I'll probably just go for the sigma super and a flip bracket with a tripod mount. I think this is going to be a real nice little rig. Hopefully I'll sell the multitrack audio rig soon and then I'll jump.
Yup, that sounds like a good setup to me. And, like people here have said, if you can find an extra $80 or so, you'll be able to get a 50mm F1.8 to do shots with no flash.
Yup, that sounds like a good setup to me. And, like people here have said, if you can find an extra $80 or so, you'll be able to get a 50mm F1.8 to do shots with no flash.
I'm sure I will eventually buy that lense... probably the best lens for the buck out there, but I'm not sure it would do me too much good for this wedding. A little short for distance and a little long for the formal shots. Maybe real good for 2-up shots or just the bride solo... Although the kit lense is only 55mm max so that would help me some during the service too. I'll have to think on that one!
I did go ahead and order the camera from Newegg. $789 shipped for the 350d in black w/ kit glass, the canon e-ttl off shoe flash adapter, a 2gb ridata cf card, and a Kiessel dx330 shoulder bag. I was going to make do with the bags I already have, but this way I can go with just one. No idea if it is a nice bacg but it is big, only $40 and looked good!
Now the flash... My mind , of course, is thinking I should try and save a few bucks if I can. I can get the Sigma EF-500 DG Super E-TTL II for 200-230, or I can get the step down Sigma EF-500 DG ST E-ttl for $150. Comparing features the differences are modeling (why use it for digital? Shoot, check the histogram to verify, and be done with it right?), Strobe effect (this is for shooting race cars and other fast objects... right?), high speed sync and wireless (wireless is only for film cameras, and the highspeed sync is for what speeds? I want flexibility up to about 1/200 or so... 1/800 doesn't thrill me), more manual steps (I like this idea), light based slave flash (great for a 2nd flash, but for the primary/only flash NBD), An LED readout, and it has more manual steps (non-super is only 1/1 and 1/16).
Now of all of that, I think the highspeed sync MAY be a resaonable feature but only if the non-super can't do up to about 200. The extra manual steps would be nice for shooting manual as I mentioned in my above posts, but I'm not sure it is necessary. Otherwise they both fully conform to E-TTL II, they both have IR focus assist, both have 6 sec recycle, and both are guide 132 @ 100 iso/50mm.
The other possibilities is the Sunpak PZ40X II AF TTL which will do much of what the super does but a little less juice, no light slave feature, and no swivel, or the Pheonix DPZBIS-125C2 Digital TLL which has no light slave feature, just a tad longer recycle and tad less juice but is only $150. Not sure about the brand Pheonix, I haven't heard either way on them and I know they make some really cheap stuff.
A couple of little things I want to be sure to get are aditional batteries for the camera ($40) atleast one difuser (~$20), and a remote ($20). So in my budget I have about $240 left which could mean a DG super, and a cheap flip bracket. Or a lesser flash, and a better bracket that flips the camera instead of the flash. I can maybe do better going used on these items but there isn't too much selection on the used market. If I could grab a used bracket, and a $150 flash I may be able to grab a 2nd CF card which will be nice if I deceide to shoot raw + jpg which is a good possibility. I will be dumping to my laptop so a 2gb card should get me atleast 200 (9490 KB for combo raw+jpg) shots of raw+jpg and that should be sufficient. I also have a couple of small cf cards that can help while I'm dumping the 2gb if needed. Finding a used flash and bracket may allow me to do the 50mm/1.8 also.
I can't speak for a particular flash, but here are what some of those features you mentioed do:
Strobe: I think this is where the flash fires multiple times in the same frame, making it look like three images all a split second apart on the same frame. Used in sport advertising and stuff.
Wireless: Not just for film cameras. Means you can set up the flash away from the camera, without a connector cord, and set it off using either a seperate transmitter on the camera, or in some systems the camera's pop-up flash. Basically enables your flash to double as a studio light.
High speed sync: I'm pretty sure this is determined by the camera, not the flash. You need high speed sync in a situation where there's lots of light, but you need fill flash and you don't want to turn up the f-stop. Outdoor portraits probably the most common reason for high-speed sync.
Manual steps: These are nice as they give you more flexibility. Nothing you can't chage with other settings, but other settings change other things, as you know. Being able to dial down to 1/64 power is nice, too, as it reduces the "Oh God, I'm blind!" factor.
I can't speak for a particular flash, but here are what some of those features you mentioed do:
Strobe: I think this is where the flash fires multiple times in the same frame, making it look like three images all a split second apart on the same frame. Used in sport advertising and stuff.
Wireless: Not just for film cameras. Means you can set up the flash away from the camera, without a connector cord, and set it off using either a seperate transmitter on the camera, or in some systems the camera's pop-up flash. Basically enables your flash to double as a studio light.
High speed sync: I'm pretty sure this is determined by the camera, not the flash. You need high speed sync in a situation where there's lots of light, but you need fill flash and you don't want to turn up the f-stop. Outdoor portraits probably the most common reason for high-speed sync.
Manual steps: These are nice as they give you more flexibility. Nothing you can't chage with other settings, but other settings change other things, as you know. Being able to dial down to 1/64 power is nice, too, as it reduces the "Oh God, I'm blind!" factor.
Fred.
the "wireless only for film" thing is from the data sheet on the flash. I know it does have the light slave feature, but with all the guests shooting their p&s camera's it will either be recyclying or dead batts when I go to shoot... besides that is only valuable to me as a 2nd flash. I'm thinking thoes features would all be nice, but in my world of restricted budgets is it better to do a more costly flash, or to try and grab a 50mm/1.8? The more I think about that lense the more I think it would be of use... big difference between f/1.8 and f/5.6... I was thinking 3.5, but that is at 18mm (duh me!) No way I could shoot w/o flash unless maybe I try it at 1600 iso, but even then probably not.
I think my goal will be to attempt to get a flash and bracket used so I can afford that lens. The supers used are hard to come by, but if I can get one cheap I will.
Congratulations on the purchase. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
I'm no expert on the flash, so all I can say is I've been debating between that Sigma and the Canon 580. I have used the 580 & it is a very sweet piece of kit.
For batteries, check out Sterlingtek--better than OEM and much, much cheaper. For remote, hit ebay and search for Adidt--it's just a basic shutter release, but does the job much cheaper than the Canon ones. Between those you should have clear up most of the cost of a 50/1.8.
Comments
Oh so correct on the 5600...I paid around 275 for mine (5600hs) that is why I did not buy any other brand...also it was the most powerful for its size....hoping to replace my sunpak 622's with the 5600's.
I do have the 5600HS and also 2 - Sunpak 622 supers ......I kept the 622's just for weddings and outdoor portraits, actually for anything I may require studio power where there aint no power (bad grammar on purpose)....Look to Ebay or here in the FLEA MARKET.......I have een lucky with ebay..but it is a chance your taking buyig used....just make sure you can return it if it doesn't work like you want.
Most STROBO FRAME brackets do have a tripod mount...also so do Custom Brackets.....My preference is to make sure the camera rotates and not the flash......and that the flash stays centered over the lens......the bracket I now use is Stroboframe and raises my flash about 8 inches above the camera..my previous (still own, just don't use) was quite a bit shorter, but I needed the x-tra height for the 622's
Funny, but out of all of this stuff the only thing that makes me really nervous is the friggin flash bracket. I have seen pictures taken by photographers using an adjustable bracket that had a dark shadow line running through them (the photo's) rendering them completely unusable. I don't really know what happened, but I assume that the photographer (a "pro" btw) had the flash itself missaligned or was somehow out of sync. Maybe the flash was set to zoom? Maybe they were trying to bounce and didn't know what they were doing? Maybe the bracket was damaged... I don't know but I want to avoid that kind of an issue! As I said before I have never shot with a bracket and have always found it was OK for my purposes just using a taller flash mounted on the hot shoe (no red-eye anyway)... I really didn't plan on a bracket even though I have seen that listed everywhere as "essential gear", but only for that reason. Any tips in that regard?
The above, makes me think a non pivoting bracket will be best for me (if only for peace of mind!) but thoes brackets don't really put the flash over the lense (as Art recomended). Getting the flash over the lense makes perfect logical sence, but I am sure I have seen it off to the side many times... is this (heavy shadowing due to miss-alingment/use of a flash with a bracket) a common error? Shooting digital, and as long as a bracket is not a wobbly piece of crap, I will know right away if this is an issue, but to even miss one shot this way would be disheartning to me ESPECIALLY since I know there is potential for this type of problem and I have the means to gain the knowlege to avoid it.
Man... questions keep popping into my head!!! Thanks for keeping up with all of this!! You folks must be rolling your eyes by now
If I wanted to use that Sunpak 383 flash you recomended (Ziggy) on the hotshoe, can that be done? (not nec for the wedding but for general use) Do I still use the cable? Since this flash is not a program flash am I going to be manually setting the flash like I do with the flash on my xg1, or is there some level of automation?
I assume the "credit card" diffuser that Ziggy mentioned is that little plastic clip on thing that goes on the top of the flash, right? What about thoes difusers that look sorta like a little foam sock? I've never used bounce techniques either, and I plan on hitting Barnes and Nobles (2-year old gift card!!) this afternoon for a book (or 2) that should cover a lot of that stuff. I don't recall ever really considering how the backgrounds were or weren't lit with a flash, and I know that can really change the impact of a picture.
One thing that makes me feel pretty good about these flash issues is that I can create many oppertunities to simulate a wedding reception and practice... Just a good excuse to go to the bar and bring my camera!!!
Another question I've had is using studio lights/reflectors for the formals. I've seen it done both ways at weddings I have been to, and I'm sure I could rent a studio lighting rig for a day. Any comments there? Maybe that type of lighting requires different technique and it would be best for me to keep it simple? I already have enough to learn and practice!
Sorry I'm asking so much of you guys... trying to heed Ziggy's advice from a few posts up. Lighting technique is going to be very important and now is as good a time as any to start drilling you guys. Even if ultimately I'm just proving my overwhelming newbieness. At least I am also proving my desire to learn!
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Wedding Photography
Art, Business, and Style
2nd edition
By: Steve Sint
Tons of good info so far and a very enjoyable read.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
hope this helps you out a little at least.
Very much so thank you.
I think I have a pretty comprehensive list in the book I just bought, so don't knock yourself out doing the rest of yours if you don't want to. Certainly willing to read it though if you do! I actually just got through the whole wedding proceedure part of this book. This guy warns about autofocusing quite a bit. I can see he is old school in many ways. I'm sure I'll need to do a lot of manual focusing and that is fine... I hope the manual focus on the A1 is more comfortable to use than it was on my 35mm Maxxum... that was a PITA. It was a couple of buttons on the lens. The camera I had before that was a k1000 and it was odd going from twisting a barrell to pushing buttons.
Kinda wondering what is next in this book! Great book. It has really made me think about some good shots I can get regardless of the surroundings. I'm going to just flat-out steal many of his ideas. He approaches things as a "candidman" and instead of always posing people he says things that makes people pose themseves. He is posing, but the subject doesn't always know he is. This bnook is also about how to make a living shooting weddings and he has lots of tips for that too. Not so valuable for me, but for anyone else following along it may be helpful.
Things are a little different in different parts of the country though. For instance you say 20 min of formals and off to the party. Here in Wisco it's formals in the church (with beers tucked behind the alter), to the limo (with a cooler of beer), to the park(s) if weather is good (nothin' like a beer in the sunshine!), then a couple of hours of bar hopping in the limo, then to the party! It is typical for one of the groomsmen to have a drink list he just hands to the bartender of what everyone wants. People usually call ahead to warn the bartender! If there isn't another wedding right after this one, I should have plenty of time for formals in the church. Attendee's usually go home for a few hours between the wedding and the reception.
There is a whole section on lighting in this book, back lighting and such included so I am excited to read that part. I still don't really understand how the 2 flashes are used and how they integrate, but I'm sure that will be discussed in this book.
About every other page the author says "And now it is time to check your flash sync!" The pictures I mentioned btw had about 1/2 the frame almost black if I remember correctly... diagonaly I think from lower left to upper right.
I'll probably end up with one of thoes flippy brackets... I'm going to shoot with the camera some before I buy a flash though just to be sure I like it. Then I'll buy the flash and bracket and start working with them. I would think the bracket would be very comfortable and stable.
Thanks again Art
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Good Luck.
Ahhh... I get it now. That isn't very good news but it makes sence. The author of this book was talking preset maual though. For the procession and other moving things that are important. Pick a spot on the floor and have the camera set to that spot kind of thing. That may take a bit of practice to get it right, but I can pull that off. I'm sure if I talk to the pastor and the wedding party I can get them to stop during the procession for a photo and then just pray for auto focus on the dad hug. I've seen that done in weddings also.
I guess I'll have to see what happens with the autofocus... It is supposed to be great for moving objects but we'll see. I'll practice thoes things at the corner bar. See... I'm going to make this project an excuse to go to the bar one way or another!!! Be prepared for a bunch of test pics of my drunk friends stumbling at me!
Right before I pulled the trigger on this thing I almost sold some audio gear to fund a "real camera". That thought crossed my mind for about 1/2 a day and so I bought the A1 before I did something rash!! If this thing doesn't work, I will throw it back on the bay along with some audio gear and buy something a bit more respectable. I don't want to do that but I'm pretty committed to making this work one way or another. I don't know how it is with you guys, but the taper crowd tends to buy and sell a lot because we always wonder what it is like on the other side. Mic's and pre's are bought and sold all the time just to try something new. No reason my something new can't be a camera. I just wish I had some more cash to play with, but it has been a tough year.
matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
The evf is extreemly distracting... no way to manual focus (or verify AF) on a moving subject for sure. Even composing the shot on a moving subject is going to be a challange, and with only 5mp resolution, I won't have the pleasure of being able to shoot wide and crop without major compromise.
The Anti-Shake absolutly kicks butt... huge difference when shooting long shutter speeds, but how often is that going to really help me? Originally I was thinking it would be nice for shooting low-light concerts and such but no matter how steady I am, the subjects on stage are moving so shooting long exposure won't be that big of a thrill except shooting inatimant objects....
The retailer I bought this from offered a 7-day return policy. Either way I think he is getting it back because there are either dead spots or dust on the evf, but the question is weather or not I get another one or the cash back, and just bite the bullit on an dslr. I guess I need to do some soul searching over the next few days!
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
***edit*** obviously, I was told that by everyone who posted to this thread... I'm just one of thoes people who needs to see for himself. Not to say I don't take advice, but my mind works in such a way that I need to investigate things... I hope knowbody was offended. It has also helped that I'm really starting to get into this and I can see myself getting use out of a nice camera.
************************************************
yeah... I think I will just do it. Still gonna be some compromise but after reading more in this book, I don't think I will need a bag full of lenses... I should be able to get by with a single zoom or maybe a short zoom and a prime tele, or maybe even a short zoom and a 2x tele adapter... do tele adapter's even work on AF DSLRs? Something else to discover I guess! I guess I can sell one of my multitrack units and probably get 5-600 for it. Then my ridiculas budget can be upgraded to puny!!! Woo hoo!!!! I'm movin' on up to puny!
I'll check the flea market here first though. I shure would like to find my way to 10mp, but I don't think I will quite get there at a grand... Maybe 8mp in a lower end body, but from what I've read, the jump from 6 to 8 isn't much of a thrill, so maybe a little better glass or body and stick with 6mp. Decesions decesions...
One thing I though was really cool about the A1 is that it has bracketing. I suppose I could do that manually but that could burn some time... I will have to research that feature. If I do a manual flash, which I think I would prefer once I got used to it, then automatic exposure bracketing would be a nice little safe guard. Raw can help me there though... now the wheels start turning again.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Now that you've (maybe) decided to go for the DSLR route, we can really talk. If I were you, I wouldn't get hung up on mega-pixels. My D70 does just fine a 6mp (everything on my site done with same). You can pick up a D70 pretty cheap on ebay now as everyone is upgrading to D80 or D200. The early canon DSLRs would be even cheaper, I imagine, but be careful as at least one of the early D-Rebels has shutter lag and likes to power down when incative. Maybe you can turn that off, though - you have to ask a canon person.
You mentioned using a tele-converter. Bad idea unless you shell out for an expensive one made by the same company who makes the camera and lenses, although even then your images are going to suffer some light-loss and maybe quality. Better off with a prime telephoto, IMO.
You also mentioned bracketting. The D70 has about a million bracketing options including white-balance, and I'd be really surprised if the other DSLRs do any less, so don't worry about that.
Fred.
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
The Nikon D50/D70/D70S and the Canon dRebel 350/XT have one very strong thing in common; a decent flash exposure management system in a very economical body.
The Nikon has i-TTL and the Canon has E-TTL-II. Both are capable and competent in rendering a high percentage of usable automation with a likewise capable flash.
What this means is a good percentage of "keepers" without a lot of fiddlin' with the flash. This is crucial when you are stressed enough with other aspects of the shot.
Another thing both of these systems can share is the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC lens. At around $360USD this thing is a steal. The following images were all made with this lens:
100% crop:
100% crop from above:
Another thing that is common in these images is the flash, a Sigma EF-500 DG Super. While it was used in many different configurations for each of these shots, it shows what a worthy companion it can be.
My personal preference is the Canon XT, because it has 33% more resolution than the Nikon cameras mentioned (mostly usable for cropping) and slightly better high ISO.
You do have to get the appropriate mount for both Canon and Nikon, so don't think that the lens and/or flash you purchase will interchange between manufacturers. It is only that you can get the same "model" lens and/or flash for either camera make.
Another lens I would consider is the standard 50mm, f1.8, from the manufacturer. At less than $100 they are both bargains (Nikon or Canon). They don't replace the lens above, but that extra stop means twice the shutter speed and that can make all the difference in ambient light. (No flash during the ceremony.)
This doesn't cover the long lenses, but honestly, I could shoot a wedding event without one.
I don't recommend buying "used" on these entry-level cameras, unless you know their background. (DGrinners are usually very good about background information.) These are not cameras with the best shutters, and a new shutter box assembly plus installation is an easy $450. Some of the e-bay equipment is just all shot up, and you can't tell by looking at it.
Lenses may be OK to buy used, depending upon the return policy.
Now your only problem is backup. Shooting with a single camera and single lens selection and single flash is just asking for trouble. If you have to, use a film SLR for backup, and enough film to cover all the formal shots.
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Hey Fred,
Thanks for the comments. I have already worked out the return on the a1, and I will be putting my older multitrack rig up for auction tonight. Kinda leaves me stripped down in my audio recording stuff, but I guess that is OK. I can still multitrack, just with a few less channels. oh well!
The megapixel race... I understand your point, but I guess I view it this way. A higher mp body is going to give me quite a bit more crop flexibility. Lets face it, I am not an overly experienced photographer and I will take all the help I can get in postproduction! Am I not looking at this the right way? I know the actual resolution between 6mp and 10 isn't really that much, but if I can grab it shouldn't I?
Both the sony a100 and the canon 400d are (barely) within my range new with kit glass. After doing a little more reading on wedding photography, it seems that I will be just fine with an 18-55ish f/3.5 lens. The shots that will demand more tele power or speed than that are really not the critical ones (durring the service mainly) and a larger image size means more crop, so maybe that evens things out a bit in the zoom dept. With the canon I get superior performance at higher iso's which will help the lense speed and the sony gives me anti-shake shick will help me lower shutter speed a bit... maybe thoes things wash as well. Media cost isn't a concern in the least these days... $40 shipped for a 2gb cf card is just crazy! BTW newegg.com rocks for flash media.
I'm going to the local camera shop to hold a few today and see how they actually feel to me. That will most likely influence my decesion also. Please post a link to your site and I will check it out. That kind of thing can influence me as well.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Yes, DSLRs have many bracketing options. In general there are more settings available to you than in a P&S which is one of the strengths. You get to select the correct lens for the task at hand, etc., etc.
As has been mentioned already, MP rating is one of the less-important parameters. There are still a lot of Canon 1D's out there producing great images at 4MP--and those 4MP are cleaner than some 10MP shots from new P&S.
Since budget is tight, look at the XT instead of the XTi. Since it's not hte latest & greatest, prices should be plummeting and it's still a great starter camera just like it was a month ago.
A final thought with going for a DSLR: It opens the possibility of renting pro-level lenses (for Canon 24-70/2.8 & 70-200/2.8IS seem to be the defacto wedding kit); you get top-quality glass for the event for probably around $60 and can see if those are something you want to budget for later.
Hit my site to see what a 20D with 50/1.8 can pull off. The Dance portfolios use one of three lenses in 99% of the cases: 50/1.8, 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8IS.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
If you want to see my photos, there should be a link in my signature below. Most everything with Nikon D70, but a couple of the sports shots with the Canon 10D.
I do understand your rationale for wanting more MP, and if you can afford them, get them, but I think any extra bucks is better spent on lenses or a good flash that works well with the auto functions of the camera. Either of those will have a far greater effect on your eventual image quality, and your flexibility, than a couple of MP.
That said, the two cameras you mentioned look great. I'd probably go with the Canon because their sensor just seems to be the best, especaially at high ISO. Also, the Sony does not power up instantly. Minor, but if it costs you a shot, well... Third, I have no idea how good Minolta glass is. People here can tell you that Canon glass is damn good. I'm sure that's even more true once you get into high end stuff if you ever get more $erriou$. Somone please correct me if Minolta glass is superb and I'm just ignorant.
I would also like to agree with Ziggy that if you go Canon, the 350D will be cheaper than the 400D and I'm not sure you'll notice a difference between 8 and 10mp. Apparently, it's not as much of a leap as 6 to 8.
No matter what, you're a good guy for giving up a piece of recording equipment to make sure this wedding goes off well. They should have a collection for you at the door.
Fred.
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
I just stopped by the local Circuit City on my way to work. They had the a100, the xti, the xt, the d80, the d50 (no lense so I didn't play with it), the 30d (no chance of me affording it so I stayed away) and the pentax istD. The Nikons felt best in my hand... not as contoured, but with most others it felt like my pinky was just barely hangin on the bottom. I don't have big hands. I could probably get used to it.
The d80 was way sweet but is going to be out of my range. Nice big beefy "man camera" for sure. The xti focused the fastest. As fast as you can say "zzzt" it was on the subject. No goofing around, not in and out before it locked, just "zzzt" and you were on. It is faster than the xt. The d80 had a bigger chunk of glass so that may have made a big difference, but the xti was faster and more precise. Sony was no slouch though... it was pretty acurate and quick.
The thing that got me thinking most however was the pentax... it was clearanced at $317 after a $100 rebate with the kit glass . I could actually swing that sucker for my initial budget! However, it isn't in the same league that any of the others are, but it pushed my cheap button. Unfortunately there isn't a formal review on it over at dpreview, so it is hard for me to compare it to the others, and Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee so no chance of playing with it for a few days unless I commit to buying from them. the rest of the camera's were a little bit pricier.
.
AS for the flash... When ziggy frist recommended a manual flash setup for the A1, I was a little apprehensive. I have owned 3 35mm film cameras and 2 of them had manual flash. I had some blown shots for sure, but not all that many, and many of which could be saved if I had raw (or spent the dough on decent processing at the time!)
This guy who wrote the book I'm reading is quite oldschool. He shoots medium format film with a manual flash. He warns agains technology in a lot of places in the book. Part of that is he is old school and that is just his way. Part of it has a lot of value though.
From the stand point of metering, a white wedding gown in a sea of black tuxes has got to be tough for any type of program flash. Instead of automating through technology, the author automates through procedure. For instance, he knows that if his guide number is 80 @ 100 iso, and his distance is 10', he then divides the distance into the guide number which gives you f/8. Ok so doing calculations by the foot is tough, but he automates this by using preset distances from his subjects. 10' is f/8, 15' is 5.3, etc. Down a stop for a difuser, add the distance from the flash to the ceiling for bounce, up a stop for small white rooms and maybe a few other little tips I'm forgetting.
He has lots of reasons for recomending this method, cost being one, and his hatred for the companies that try to push you into their overpricesd program flash, but the reason that makes the most sence is that he is now calculating his exposure on the distance alone, which according to him is much more acurate.
After reading all of that it doesn't seem like rocket science. Shutter speed won't matter as long as I can sync to the speeds I want to use. Composing a shot while maintaining a preset distance with a zoom lense isn't rocket science. Sure I may have some varience in the depth of field but a quarter turn of a small zoom lens isn't going to make that big of a difference. It all actually sounds pretty easy to me, and it sounds like a good reason to buy an $80 120 guide flash over a $400 flash with 2/3rds the juice. Maybe, here again, I am over simplifing things but it seems easy to me.
Good points on the mp vs quality... that is a tough call to make. 6 vs 8 or 8 vs 10 is probably no biggie but 6 to 10 is a pretty big jump. That xti really gave me the jollies... not everything a man could want, but it is a nice camera.
Good point on the backup camera ziggy. I still have my xg1 w/ a 50mm f/1.4 and a 80-200 f/4.5 that I will be blowing the dust off of in the near future. I will burn a couple of rolls with that between now and then to refamiliarize myself with it but I'm going to pray I don't need it at the wedding!!!
Matt
**edit* thanks for the excelent examples Ziggy. Jim, Nice pics. I like your litte wedding selection. Your pictures were very flattering of the bride especially... I think that is probably an art all in itself.
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
Good stuff Chris. The dance shots are wonderful. Some of the lighting is bordering on spectacular actually. the two dancers back to back (TribalTique) shot really apeals to me. Screams "Wallflower in the shadows" kinda thing.
Did you use flash? Was stage lighting pretty intense? Was it just straight white light from the stage? Lighting seems to be comming from the left side mostly but very little shadowing overall. If you didn't use flash, did you do a lot of white ballance adjustment in post? Raw?
Sorry for the barage... I'm learning here! Lighting effects are something I'm really trying to prepare myself on...
matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
I've been in your shoes before. I actually shot a wedding with a Sony F717 and Sunpak 383 flash. I kept saying no until a few days before the wedding. I even told them I wasn't going to show up. But it was a case of my pics vs. no pics. I used a Stroboframe and an Omnibounce on the flash. With the flash pointed to the ceiling it eliminated the shadows you sometimes see with direct flash. I shot everything in manual mode. Make sure you shoot some test shots on site before the wedding day to make sure you know what your camera and flash settings need to be. You don't have time to experiment on the big day. Make a list of the shots you need to take so, hopefully, you don't forget some. Get someone to assist you in gathering up folks and helping to set up if you're going to take formal shots. Check your ISO setting. You don't want to shoot in ISO800 and have noisy pics. Make sure your flash has recycled before the next shot. I may be repeating something you already know, but it doesn't hurt to double check. I was a nervous wreck by the time I finished shooting. I have great admiration for people who do weddings for a living. By the way, my pics turned out amazingly good despite the nut behind the camera. I'd post some but I'm on dialup. Good Luck.
Option 1
program flash $230
flash bracket $50
sync cable $50
quality glass 28-70ish/f2.8 $400
2gb card $40
total before camera $770
amount left over for camera $330
With this option I could do the pentax deal at circuit city or possibly a used 300d, though I haven't seen a body go that cheap yet. Other than that I am stuck.
Option 2
manual flash $80
flash bracket $50
sync cord $50
2gb card $40
Total amount before lens and camera $220
amount left over for lens and camera $880
With this option I can get the xti and use kit glass (899 shipped) and only be $20 over budget, or get the sony (848 shipped) and stay within budget. As an additional wrinkle on this I could probably find a way to shoe mount a non ttl flash on the camera and save enough to rent decent glass, although I'm not sure if I can really do that with either of these cameras.
Option 3
program flash $230
flash bracket $50
sync cable $50
2gb card $40
total before camera $370
amount left over for camera and lens $730
this option lets me get a new 350d with kit glass ($699 shipped) and have about $20 in my pocket.
Option 4
Manual flash $80
flash bracket $50
sync cord $50
quality glass 28-70ish/f2.8 $400
2gb card $40
Total amount before lens and camera $620
amount left over for lens and camera $480
This would certainly buy me a 300d used... mabe a refurb w/ warranty. I could maybe find a decent lense for less... there are some cheaper sigma's that have the right numbers but they are just so cheap ya gotta wonder! If I could get a dexent lense for 300 that puts me up closer to a 350d which is more in my comfort range... If I can get 8mp I want it, but if I can't get fast glass I want the cannon for it's higher iso quality.
Couple other notes... there aren't any local places where I can rent gear. I would have to go to Chicago which is a big pain in my ass. I could ship back and fourth, but with insurance and all that will double my rental cost.
Which is the lesser of the evils at hand?
no bracket
kit glass
cheap body
manual flash
used body
3-4hrs of hell in a car driving to chicago to rent glass during rush traffic twice.
Arghhh!:help
would you guys really take a bottom of the line or potentially "used up" body so that you could use better glass and a program flash?
Would you guys forgo an 8 to 10 mp jump and more acurate autofocus for program flash?
I guess I'm still leaning toward either the 350d or the 400d with kit glass. the kit glass is going to give me less quality. This I know, but by how much? I know I won't get the zoom I will want, but I can crop a fair amount from a 8 or 10mp image and atlest make respectable 4x6 prints from it. The shots at the service are truly the least of my worries. Coming in and coming out I will use flash, and hopefully the pastor will let me flash for the ring and the kiss too (we all know the rest of the people in the building will!) I know I won't have the speed in the lense, but the canons do such a nice job at higher iso's that shooting at 400 in a canon should be about the same as 100 in many other that I am considering. Then on top of that, if I go with the 400d I get a camera body that isn't already old news, I get wonderful AF that will surely help my sorry a$$, and in the end I have a nice firm base to start with so I can add glass and other things later without feeling the want for a new body right away.
Any advice?
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
I am not going to try to offer up advice on camera gear for ya, I'll leave that to the experts since I am still learning myself.
What I can do is offer shopping advice... Don't settle for the asking price.
If one store won't budge, and it's a common enough item to get anywhere, go somewhere else. When a sales clerk tells you, "I'm sorry I can't... " or "I'm not authorized to..." save his or her time and ask (nicely) to speak to a manager or someone who can authorize it. There's room to negotiate. Always. If there isn't, walk out and go elsewhere. Even online has wiggle room (most big retailers have 800 #s). I got my Sony 3 days after it hit the market for $100 less than they were asking simply by saying, "I want a better price" at Best Buy. (Best Buy has an ~awesome~ return policy btw, nothing like Circuit City. They also don't gouge you on warranties like CC).
Another thing to consider, if you go with a popular camera, is Costco or Sam's Club. Check the prices on their websites and if they're good, and I know Costco has a great return policy as well, find someone who is a member to get you in there to buy it.
And then there's closeout's and store closings... Comp USA recently closed a local store here and were liquidating all their cameras. Eventually 2 lucky folks (because they only had 2) got Canon 20Ds (or is it D20?) for 20% off the retail price, which was already somewhat competitive, and they were still covered by manufacturer and the store chain's warranty.
Personally, I love Best Buy. It's quick, no-nonsense. I just walk up to my favorite manager, he asks what I want to buy and then he looks up what the lowest he can go to is. Easy. Tell them you're a member of "Reward Zone", regardless if it's true, you only need the manager to sign the price change approval paper, and they'll be even kinder. (Reward Zone rocks btw - cash back for your purchases)
Anyway, I've rambled long enough. I just wanted to encourage ya to shop around (obvious, I know) and don't settle for the asking price (pretend you were raised by bartering gypsies!) if you can avoid it.
Thanks. Your lighting will probably be easier than what I usualy deal with.
No flash in those at all (I have yet to purchase one. After glass comes a 580)--part of why I chose a 20D. About 98% of those shots were at ISO3200; the first day at that even was RAW...then I noticed how fast I was filling up my PD70X, and switched to JPEG the rest of the weekend. I have a WhiBal and shot that to set a custom WB; the lighting was just white lights on the stage. There was actually little PP in all those. Have I mentioned the 20D at 3200 rocks?
For the rest of the dance galleries, shot RAW, ISO3200, usually a WhiBal shot--though that's often pointless with gelled lighting. My normal challenge is the lighing techs seem to all have a boner for red gels, which we all know will cause havoc with the very-sensitive red channel, so I spend PP time pulling back red while trying not to bork up my color balance. RAW in Bibble helps immensely there. In the EEMED gallery you will see a redheaded dancer in a red costume, with--surprise--all red-gelled lights.
With flash, you have it much easier since you can just set WB to flash and pick your aperture to be in the sweet spot of the lens (thus making a kit lens viable).
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I'd say, yes, forgo the extra 2mp for a program flash. The stuff you mentioned about doing flash calcualtions based purely on distance is nice, but there are too many variables and I think that's the sort of thing that takes a lot of practice to get good at. I think a program flash will make more of your shots useable.
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
As for the 2mp... I took a cf card to CC tonight and shot some on both the xti and the xt. Not sure what happened, but I only got the xt shots on the card. Probably best though, because I really like the quality. The gorgeous salesgirl allowed a shot, so I got a nice closeup to check skin tones and facial detail. I'm very impressed with both the size of the image and the resolution. The AF missed a few but it was still quite fast and acurate. That xti is mighty fast, but this is no joke either.
I think I will take E's advice and do the program flash with the xt. I'm going to make do with the kit glass. Not Ideal, but the lesser of all the evils most likely. I do want to put the manual flash techniques mentioned in this book to use, but not at the expence of the job at hand. I can still do thoes things with the program flash when/if I feel comfortable. Newegg.com has the xt in black for $699 w/ the kit glass and a bonus 2gb cf card. I'll probably just go for the sigma super and a flip bracket with a tripod mount. I think this is going to be a real nice little rig. Hopefully I'll sell the multitrack audio rig soon and then I'll jump.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
I'm sure I will eventually buy that lense... probably the best lens for the buck out there, but I'm not sure it would do me too much good for this wedding. A little short for distance and a little long for the formal shots. Maybe real good for 2-up shots or just the bride solo... Although the kit lense is only 55mm max so that would help me some during the service too. I'll have to think on that one!
I did go ahead and order the camera from Newegg. $789 shipped for the 350d in black w/ kit glass, the canon e-ttl off shoe flash adapter, a 2gb ridata cf card, and a Kiessel dx330 shoulder bag. I was going to make do with the bags I already have, but this way I can go with just one. No idea if it is a nice bacg but it is big, only $40 and looked good!
Now the flash... My mind , of course, is thinking I should try and save a few bucks if I can. I can get the Sigma EF-500 DG Super E-TTL II for 200-230, or I can get the step down Sigma EF-500 DG ST E-ttl for $150. Comparing features the differences are modeling (why use it for digital? Shoot, check the histogram to verify, and be done with it right?), Strobe effect (this is for shooting race cars and other fast objects... right?), high speed sync and wireless (wireless is only for film cameras, and the highspeed sync is for what speeds? I want flexibility up to about 1/200 or so... 1/800 doesn't thrill me), more manual steps (I like this idea), light based slave flash (great for a 2nd flash, but for the primary/only flash NBD), An LED readout, and it has more manual steps (non-super is only 1/1 and 1/16).
Now of all of that, I think the highspeed sync MAY be a resaonable feature but only if the non-super can't do up to about 200. The extra manual steps would be nice for shooting manual as I mentioned in my above posts, but I'm not sure it is necessary. Otherwise they both fully conform to E-TTL II, they both have IR focus assist, both have 6 sec recycle, and both are guide 132 @ 100 iso/50mm.
The other possibilities is the Sunpak PZ40X II AF TTL which will do much of what the super does but a little less juice, no light slave feature, and no swivel, or the Pheonix DPZBIS-125C2 Digital TLL which has no light slave feature, just a tad longer recycle and tad less juice but is only $150. Not sure about the brand Pheonix, I haven't heard either way on them and I know they make some really cheap stuff.
A couple of little things I want to be sure to get are aditional batteries for the camera ($40) atleast one difuser (~$20), and a remote ($20). So in my budget I have about $240 left which could mean a DG super, and a cheap flip bracket. Or a lesser flash, and a better bracket that flips the camera instead of the flash. I can maybe do better going used on these items but there isn't too much selection on the used market. If I could grab a used bracket, and a $150 flash I may be able to grab a 2nd CF card which will be nice if I deceide to shoot raw + jpg which is a good possibility. I will be dumping to my laptop so a 2gb card should get me atleast 200 (9490 KB for combo raw+jpg) shots of raw+jpg and that should be sufficient. I also have a couple of small cf cards that can help while I'm dumping the 2gb if needed. Finding a used flash and bracket may allow me to do the 50mm/1.8 also.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
I just wrote you a long explination of the flash options you mentioned, and it wouldn't post for some reason, so I'm testing now.
Fred
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
First of all, congratz on your new purchase.
I can't speak for a particular flash, but here are what some of those features you mentioed do:
Strobe: I think this is where the flash fires multiple times in the same frame, making it look like three images all a split second apart on the same frame. Used in sport advertising and stuff.
Wireless: Not just for film cameras. Means you can set up the flash away from the camera, without a connector cord, and set it off using either a seperate transmitter on the camera, or in some systems the camera's pop-up flash. Basically enables your flash to double as a studio light.
High speed sync: I'm pretty sure this is determined by the camera, not the flash. You need high speed sync in a situation where there's lots of light, but you need fill flash and you don't want to turn up the f-stop. Outdoor portraits probably the most common reason for high-speed sync.
Manual steps: These are nice as they give you more flexibility. Nothing you can't chage with other settings, but other settings change other things, as you know. Being able to dial down to 1/64 power is nice, too, as it reduces the "Oh God, I'm blind!" factor.
Fred.
http://esiggins.smugmug.com
I think my goal will be to attempt to get a flash and bracket used so I can afford that lens. The supers used are hard to come by, but if I can get one cheap I will.
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
I'm no expert on the flash, so all I can say is I've been debating between that Sigma and the Canon 580. I have used the 580 & it is a very sweet piece of kit.
For batteries, check out Sterlingtek--better than OEM and much, much cheaper. For remote, hit ebay and search for Adidt--it's just a basic shutter release, but does the job much cheaper than the Canon ones. Between those you should have clear up most of the cost of a 50/1.8.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/