what dpi to use???

System

this is a question that has bothered me for a while... i save all raw to jpeg 10 but what dpi do i set it at .. my options say output resolution ??? what # do i need to put in there .. FYI it is 350 by default ? thanks for all the help
curtis

SteveM

allensphoto wrote:

this is a question that has bothered me for a while... i save all raw to jpeg 10 but what dpi do i set it at .. my options say output resolution ??? what # do i need to put in there .. FYI it is 350 by default ? thanks for all the help
curtis

Have a peek at Andy's thread: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=42382

Should answer all your questions. There was another one similiar to this, but I can't find it right now, but it boils down to DPI doesn't matter.

Hope this helps!

Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com

System

Steve thanks for finding it the thread for i had search to no luck ... like the other person i had read that to . i guess i just need reasurring i am starting to sell a few online and did ot want to cause smug mug a ton of grieve by having to low of quality pix ... thanks for the help...
curtis

dogwood

check this out from SM help
http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

This help thread from smugmug explains the recommended dpi settings for your uploads. Depends on the print size and the printer EZ prints will be using.

SteveM

As Andy explained in a previous thread, DPI doesn't matter and you should upload your most complete file. EZ Prints will handle the upsizing or downsizing of DPI for you based on print size, as we can't really guess what size print is going to be ordered, nor upload 5 files with differing DPIs.

So, 1) Largest resolution you can muster, 2) Saved @10 in Photoshop.

Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com

System

Thanks so much for the help... i am doing that allready.. most of mine come over at 3504 on the long and 23?? on the short.. that should print anything my customers will want...
thanks again..
curtis

ivar

allensphoto wrote:

Thanks so much for the help... i am doing that allready.. most of mine come over at 3504 on the long and 23?? on the short.. that should print anything my customers will want...
thanks again..
curtis

That's perfect, that should enable you to print anything we offer see here for details on absolute minimums: http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality#minprintres

dogwood

why guess?

SteveM wrote:

we can't really guess what size print is going to be ordered, nor upload 5 files with differing DPIs.

That's what proof delay is for. You CAN know exactly what size print is ordered and replace accordingly. Take a look at the SM help thread on this issue that I posted above. Sure, you can let EZ prints up/down res for you-- but the truth is, EZ prints actually does use different printers for different print sizes. Thankfully, SM gives us the details so guys like me who want to provide the best quality print possible (people do pay for my prints, after all). Then again, I use a layer mask to sharpen so I can mask out skin-- just one extra step I take to make sure my customers get the best quality prints possible.

Photography is a very competitive field-- you can use one-size fits all-- but I promise your customers will prefer a custom approach. And again, thankfully, SM provides us with the tools and info for this. How you use them is up to you.

SteveM

dogwood wrote:

That's what proof delay is for. You CAN know exactly what size print is ordered and replace accordingly. Take a look at the SM help thread on this issue that I posted above. Sure, you can let EZ prints up/down res for you-- but the truth is, EZ prints actually does use different printers for different print sizes. Thankfully, SM gives us the details so guys like me who want to provide the best quality print possible (people do pay for my prints, after all). Then again, I use a layer mask to sharpen so I can mask out skin-- just one extra step I take to make sure my customers get the best quality prints possible.

Photography is a very competitive field-- you can use one-size fits all-- but I promise your customers will prefer a custom approach. And again, thankfully, SM provides us with the tools and info for this. How you use them is up to you.

Just to clear up a little confusion on the process...

Firstly, the DPI you upload at is absolutely irrelevant. The only thing replacing an ordered image, say a 4x6, with a 302DPI version of that image, is saving EZ Prints one step. The outcome would be exactly the same. Unless the photos you're uploading are not your fullest quality (Saved @10 in Photoshop, etc.), whether you upsize the DPI or they do, for the printer they'll be printing on according to size, it will not matter. Certainly if YOU know what size print goes on what printer at what DPI, they do as well. If you upload an image at 72 DPI, and someone orders a 4x6, EZ Prints will increase the DPI to 302DPI, the same as you would. You're only making more work for yourself. If that same 72DPI image is ordered at 20x30, they will up it for you to 254DPI to fit their printer, just the same as if you uploaded a 500DPI image, they would downsize it to 254DPI for the <30" size.

Using the proof delay for this purpose only adds to much more work and more frustration for no benefit whatsoever. I'm not sure how robust your sales are, but I frequently have customers order the same print in different sizes, at times concurrently with other customers who order that same print, also in different sizes. All orders are going to be based off of that one replaced image. Now, is it the 302DPI you uploaded, or the 254DPI one, or even the 200DPI version? Or do you upload one, wait 4 days til the order actually prints and ships, then upload another version and clear the next sale for printing? Why bother since regardless of what you send them, EZ Prints is just going to size it to suit their needs. Masking and sharpening are admirable, and I think it's a pretty common industry practice to retouch proofs before they go out.

To anyone else reading this in regards to the proof delay, although it's not stated or suggested in THIS thread, you also have to be very careful about catering to specific sizes. For instance, if your original uploaded image is a 2:3 ratio (4x6) and someone orders an 8x10, it is going to crop that image (or no crop, leaving white borders on two sides) and you are not going to know HOW it was cropped, since it may be a standard crop, or a customer-adjusted crop, or no crop with borders. If you do anything to that image to alter the aspect ratio, add a border, or otherwise "fix it" for an 8x10 print before replacing the image through proof delay, it is going to muck up the final print.

Smugmug and EZ prints both have an expert staff who go the distance to keep things simple and very high quality. As long as you follow the simple guidelines such as minimum resolution, saving at higher JPG quality, soft proofing with EZ Prints .icc profile, you can't help but get great quality professional prints. No need to do extra work.

Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com

dogwood

dpi irrelevant?
Steve:

If you run an unsharp mask on a 300dpi 2000x3000 image, it will look completely different than if you run that same unsharp mask on a 72dpi 400x500 image. I also notice a big difference between downsizing a sharpened 300dpi image to a 72dpi image. So saying the dpi is irrelavant is misleading. I actually use completely different unsharp mask settings based on the intended output-- and this is precisely why stock agencies always ask for images with no sharpening. If you want the best quality, you'll want to sharpen based on the size and dpi of the intended output.

Ironically, even smugmug admits some people actually can do better than the EZ prints upsample/downsample (from the help page previously mentioned: "EZ Prints will upsample/downsample as needed and they can do it better than all but the most serious experts.") Are you saying this statement is not true?

Here's another line from that smugmug help page:

"The rule of thumb on the Frontiers is 150 dpi will produce superb prints but perhaps a very discerning eye with a magnifying glass may be able to distinguish added quality by going to 302 dpi on some images, particularly ones with sharp, high-contrast lines."

Guess it all depends on what kind of customers you're after. I happen to target the customers with a very discerning eye and I'll do what it takes to get them the best quality print or digital download possible.

SteveM

dogwood wrote:

Ironically, even smugmug admits some people actually can do better than the EZ prints upsample/downsample (from the help page previously mentioned: "EZ Prints will upsample/downsample as needed and they can do it better than all but the most serious experts.") Are you saying this statement is not true?

Yes, that statement is a little misleading. Little skill or talent goes into specifying a new DPI and picking a resample algorhythm in Photoshop CS2. However, if you used some high end, industrial software to accomplish this, which I believe EZ Prints does, then results might differ. Sharpening is of course a different story as they do not sharpen for you to my knowledge.

dogwood wrote:

Here's another line from that smugmug help page:

"The rule of thumb on the Frontiers is 150 dpi will produce superb prints but perhaps a very discerning eye with a magnifying glass may be able to distinguish added quality by going to 302 dpi on some images, particularly ones with sharp, high-contrast lines."

.....so we don't print at 150 dpi" is how this should read. This was a "rule of thumb", stating that 150 is just fine, but we don't settle for just fine, we still print at 302DPI on this printer. If you notice, the lowest DPI they mention actually PRINTING at is 200 for 30" prints so they welcome your discerning customers as well.

You're right, sharpening is pretty specific to the output size, from wallets all the way up to posters. Unfortunately, there is no viable way to deal with this at Smugmug currently, unless you do only sell in one size, upload 10 different versions of the same image, or sell/proof/replace one at a time. It's easy to see that with any kind of volume this is rather unrealistic if you have multiple sized prints pending on the same image. And lets not even attempt to grace the subject of the proper way to optimize sharpening for a luggage tag. However, I've found regardless of print size, if you start with a sharp, clean image, much sharpening isn't needed and will print famously at any size. Lets keep in mind, in the 35mm era, there was no such thing as sharpening and the negatives yielded fantastic detail.

However, this thread isn't about sharpening, it's about DPI, and irrelevant.

Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com

System

SteveM wrote:

they welcome your discerning customers as well.
However, this thread isn't about sharpening, it's about DPI, and irrelevant.

Pete and steve, thanks for all the help .. you guys are great .. and you can look at my site and tell i don't have to many discerning eye's looking at my stuff to order .. i'm not good enought, to know i'm bad ... feel free to take this thread where ever it need to go .. i've been helped .. maybe it can help some other person..