Slideshows picture quality and captions

JourNet

Hello,

during evaluating both smugmug and it's "clone" zenfolio (sorry ;-) in order to decide for one of these, I noticed significant differences in the slideshow picture quality.

Background:
I want to use the service for picture presentation to friends and as an additional backup for safety, but I will go on organizing my pictures on my own PC using folders, subfolders and descriptive filenames. Basically, I will clone my own existing folder scheme with categories and subcategories on the picture hosting site, which seems to be possible. As my file names are often descriptive, I would like these names to be shown with the galleries (not with thumbnails) and with the slideshows.
I will upload full size original files (to use the service as my safety backup), but prohibit original full size download by visitors and restrict downloads to the large sizes.
I have uploaded one sample gallery, sure not my best pics, to test the services. The uploaded picture files are around 4 to 6 Mpixels, but as said I have disabled full size download.

Slideshow picture quality problem:
Testing the slideshows of both smugmug and zenfolio, I have noticed significant picture quality differences: It seems that the smugmug slideshow resizes all pictures to fully fit the screen (1280 x 1024 with me). This way, it seems to blow pictures up bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size. Smugmug seems to truly honors my picture size restrictions, thus seems to generate the slideshow blow-ups from the smaller sized "large" picture versions. But as the result, they are unsharp and show significant JPEG artifacts - just very poor quality.
Zenfolio, on the other side, seems to restrict slideshow picture sizes to the maximum allowed download size, this way offering perfect image quality. Of course, this may result in quite some "frame" around the picture if my monitor is much bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size, but I will always prefer a smaller sharp picture to a bigger unsharp picture. And I assume that most photo enthisiasts will agree to me here.
Is there a way - without customisation hassles - to configure the smugmug slideshows not to blow up pictures bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size? Did I miss something?

Slideshow caption / filename text position:
As smugmug blows slideshows pics up to full (browser) screen size, the optional filename/captute text is displayed within the picture area. I would much prefer the picture to be a little smaller, with the text displayed above or below outside of the picture area.
Again, is there any easy way to achieve this?
(Still not worse than zenfolio here, as with zenfolio you have to move the mouse over an icon to pop up a filename window).

If you want to compare yourself, these are the respective galleries:
http://journet.smugmug.com/gallery/1915856
http://jour.zenfolio.com/p119860025

Thanks in advance for your input,
Burkhard

Dennis

Maybe I'm missing something, but when I select "slideshow" from the pull down style window in a gallery, I'm given a choice of slideshow display size (small, medium, large, fullscreen), and full screen is an optional choice ... but not the default... I often use the slideshow feature, but usually I don't select fullscreen... and the displayed images are the same quality as when I normally view them.

JourNet wrote:

Hello,

It seems that the smugmug slideshow resizes all pictures to fully fit the screen (1280 x 1024 with me). This way, it seems to blow pictures up bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size. Smugmug seems to truly honors my picture size restrictions, thus seems to generate the slideshow blow-ups from the smaller sized "large" picture versions. But as the result, they are unsharp and show significant JPEG artifacts - just very poor quality.

ivar

JourNet wrote:

Hello,

during evaluating both smugmug and it's "clone" zenfolio (sorry ;-) in order to decide for one of these, I noticed significant differences in the slideshow picture quality.

Background:
I want to use the service for picture presentation to friends and as an additional backup for safety, but I will go on organizing my pictures on my own PC using folders, subfolders and descriptive filenames. Basically, I will clone my own existing folder scheme with categories and subcategories on the picture hosting site, which seems to be possible. As my file names are often descriptive, I would like these names to be shown with the galleries (not with thumbnails) and with the slideshows.
I will upload full size original files (to use the service as my safety backup), but prohibit original full size download by visitors and restrict downloads to the large sizes.
I have uploaded one sample gallery, sure not my best pics, to test the services. The uploaded picture files are around 4 to 6 Mpixels, but as said I have disabled full size download.

Slideshow picture quality problem:
Testing the slideshows of both smugmug and zenfolio, I have noticed significant picture quality differences: It seems that the smugmug slideshow resizes all pictures to fully fit the screen (1280 x 1024 with me). This way, it seems to blow pictures up bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size. Smugmug seems to truly honors my picture size restrictions, thus seems to generate the slideshow blow-ups from the smaller sized "large" picture versions. But as the result, they are unsharp and show significant JPEG artifacts - just very poor quality.
Zenfolio, on the other side, seems to restrict slideshow picture sizes to the maximum allowed download size, this way offering perfect image quality. Of course, this may result in quite some "frame" around the picture if my monitor is much bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size, but I will always prefer a smaller sharp picture to a bigger unsharp picture. And I assume that most photo enthisiasts will agree to me here.
Is there a way - without customisation hassles - to configure the smugmug slideshows not to blow up pictures bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size? Did I miss something?

Slideshow caption / filename text position:
As smugmug blows slideshows pics up to full (browser) screen size, the optional filename/captute text is displayed within the picture area. I would much prefer the picture to be a little smaller, with the text displayed above or below outside of the picture area.
Again, is there any easy way to achieve this?
(Still not worse than zenfolio here, as with zenfolio you have to move the mouse over an icon to pop up a filename window).

If you want to compare yourself, these are the respective galleries:
http://journet.smugmug.com/gallery/1915856
http://jour.zenfolio.com/p119860025

Thanks in advance for your input,
Burkhard

Hi Journet,

Thank you for trying SmugMug and welcome to dgrin!

We do indeed use the largest available size, and stretch that to fit the window. The window opens by default at full screen, but you can resize the frame, and the pictures will follow aswell.

We have no way to change the caption at this point, but thanks for the request

JourNet

Dennis wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but when I select "slideshow" from the pull down style window in a gallery, I'm given a choice of slideshow display size (small, medium, large, fullscreen), and full screen is an optional choice ... but not the default... I often use the slideshow feature, but usually I don't select fullscreen... and the displayed images are the same quality as when I normally view them.

Hi Dennis,

thanks for that hint!
I did not select the slideshow from the pull down style window in the gallery - I just learned about that option from you -, but simply used the dedicated "slideshow" button on the right top side of the gallery page. And that autmatically starts a fullscreen slideshow.
I think your hint solves my problem. But it still does not make me fully happy. First reason is that I expect many guest viewers will use the "appealing" slideshow button and run into the same problems that I hit. Second reason is that I would love a "full screen" slideshow without the "unnecessary" top lines of all gallery views, but just with the picture in best available quality (so, never blown up) und the file name/capture text _below_ the picture, as such would also work with smaller monitors like 1280x800.

So, if the Smugmug team reads this:
Add a picture size selector to the full screen slideshow control bar, and reposition the caption/filename text below _outside_ of the picture.

Thanks again,
Burkhard

Andy

JourNet wrote:

Smugmug seems to truly honors my picture size restrictions, thus seems to generate the slideshow blow-ups from the smaller sized "large" picture versions. But as the result, they are unsharp and show significant JPEG artifacts - just very poor quality.

Indeed, and that's why we have the gallery slideshow, which is not full screen, and will use the -L (Large) size to show your images.

Is there a way - without customisation hassles - to configure the smugmug slideshows not to blow up pictures bigger than the maximum allowed download picture size? Did I miss something?

Well, most folks who block originals will put in a tiny bit of code in their CSS customization: .play_slideshow {display: none;}
which blocks the full screen slideshow button.

Holler if we can help more!

Dennis

I did not want the fullscreen slideshow button, so I deleted it on my galleries like Andy recommended above ... not because I block originals, but because I prefer the "large" slideshow default ... I really like the ability to turn off fade, and if I select at least 4 seconds between images, there is no perceived delay in their display ...

It would be nice to have an option to clean up the slide display window to only include the images.

Cheers!

JourNet

Picture quality

Andy wrote:

Indeed, and that's why we have the gallery slideshow, which is not full screen, and will use the -L (Large) size to show your images.

Well, most folks who block originals will put in a tiny bit of code in their CSS customization: .play_slideshow {display: none;}
which blocks the full screen slideshow button.

Holler if we can help more!

Hi Andy and all,

thank you very much for your quick and valuable input!

After spending some more minutes comparing my sample galleries on smugmug and zenfolio, I unfortunately also noticed a significant difference in quality: Even with your L image size, there are obvious JPEG compression artifacts with smugmug, versus none at all with zenfolio. See http://journet.smugmug.com/gallery/1915856/1/96867230/Large versus http://jour.zenfolio.com/p119860025/?photo=h01F7A63C#33007164 for illustration (the girl on the left side, the roofs of the buildings, ...).

Further, zenfolio has the option of XL size (1100*850 pixels) as the biggest non-original size. For todays big 19"+ monitors, this allows for a nicer presentation without having to release the original files.

Andy, I would also like to stress that zenfolio's picture presentation (design quality of themes, slideshow) is noticably nicer and makes a noticably better picture presentation - for my taste, yours may vary ;-).

Please take this as customer feedback intended to help you optimising your service, not as grumbling. After browsing the photo site market, I quickly came down to smugmug vs. zenfolio. After having learned a little bit about your company, your history of business and about the generally high satisfaction of your users, I have a strong general preference for going with smugmug. But my main intention is still the presentation of photos, and the more I evaluate, the stronger zenfolio is in image presentation quality. It's some pity that an obvious clone beats you on your core competency. But smugmug's great support here shoes that you care.

So:
Do you agree with my findings?
Do you have plans to "strike back" and meet or beat zenfolio's picture presentation quality?
If yes, what's the rough timescale?

Best Regards,
Burkhard

Andy

JourNet wrote:

So:
Do you agree with my findings?
Do you have plans to "strike back" and meet or beat zenfolio's picture presentation quality?
If yes, what's the rough timescale?

Best Regards,
Burkhard

We do indeed, and some things are in the works already You might enjoy reading this thread, and we'd love your contribution to it:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=32241

Thanks for giving us your direct feedback, we really appreciate it!

xtina

Standard users too!
I agree with the above comments about the slideshow. I love SmugMug too but I think it would be great to let standard users disable the full slideshow button. The main point of smugmug is to share pictures and most visitors will click on the clearly visible slideshow button.

It would be even better if the main slideshow button would pop open the dropdown style slideshow in a new window without the toolbars. This would allow users to select what size to view pictures but would default to large and look nicer than the fullsize pictures. Also, it will let users go to other galleries without automatically starting the slideshow - which happens when the dropdown slideshow is selected. I hope this makes sense.

Tina