Could we get "DO NOT BEND" on our packages???

Matthew Saville

I found this stuffed into my mailbox today. Give me a break, people. I promised to deliver this print matted on Friday. And now I gotta take it up with the USPS, which I'm sure will take forever....

I know that this in particular is not Smugmug's fault, (aside from getting "DO NOT BEND" on the package) ...but the reasons I use AdoramaPix and WHCC are getting pretty numerous. Ultimately I am going to have a website that lets me sell matted prints ONLY; whether or not Smugmug takes me therel is up to Smugmug itself.

Take care,
-Matt-

Andy

Matthew Saville wrote:

I found this stuffed into my mailbox today. Give me a break, people. I promised to deliver this print matted on Friday. And now I gotta take it up with the USPS, which I'm sure will take forever....

I know that this in particular is not Smugmug's fault, (aside from getting "DO NOT BEND" on the package) ...but the reasons I use AdoramaPix and WHCC are getting pretty numerous. Ultimately I am going to have a website that lets me sell matted prints ONLY; whether or not Smugmug takes me therel is up to Smugmug itself.

Take care,
-Matt-

Hi Matt, indeed the envelopes do say DO NOT BEND. Not sure what happened in this case, perhaps the sticker got put over it somehow. We're sorry this happened, send an email to help@smugmug.com and we'll replace the order, with 2nd business day shipping, of course at no charge, all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:

http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

The sad truth is, even with DO NOT BEND on the envelope, sometimes the USPS bends it, stuffs it, or worse.

We'd like to get that packaging from you - if you don't mind, shoot me a note c/o the help desk, and I'll give you an address to ship it to me.

steveL

bigger mailbox?
Please don't take me for a smart guy but if you want to have large packages delivered to you, you need a large enough mailbox. The mail people have to deliver your mail and you need to provide a suitable box for the service you expect.

We don't have a mailbox at home. We stop by the post office of our (small) town and get our mail from our small letter sized box. If the item is too large for the small box the window clerks get the package from the back. We don't have any problems and they know us quite well. Our mail is much more secure than it would be in a box next to the street.

The box fee is trivial.

Matthew Saville

steveL wrote:

Please don't take me for a smart guy but if you want to have large packages delivered to you, you need a large enough mailbox. The mail people have to deliver your mail and you need to provide a suitable box for the service you expect.

We don't have a mailbox at home. We stop by the post office of our (small) town and get our mail from our small letter sized box. If the item is too large for the small box the window clerks get the package from the back. We don't have any problems and they know us quite well. Our mail is much more secure than it would be in a box next to the street.

The box fee is trivial.

Hi Steve, thanks for your input...

I actually live in a residential area, one that is very very safe. I get packages leaning up against my front door ALL the time. Our normal mailman knows us well and would never do this. It must have been a substitute mailman today, one that was running late or who was simply having a bad day. Regardless of having a mailbox too small to fit an 11x14" in, you just do NOT fold pictures and jam them into the mailbox.

Of course you do have a valid point, to some extent. If I want to be courteous to my mailman and save him a few trips up to my door, I probably should (and after this I certainly will, some day) get a mailbox that is XXL or whatever....

Take care,
-Matt-

Matthew Saville

Andy wrote:

Hi Matt, indeed the envelopes do say DO NOT BEND. Not sure what happened in this case, perhaps the sticker got put over it somehow. We're sorry this happened, send an email to help@smugmug.com and we'll replace the order, with 2nd business day shipping, of course at no charge, all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:

http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

The sad truth is, even with DO NOT BEND on the envelope, sometimes the USPS bends it, stuffs it, or worse.

We'd like to get that packaging from you - if you don't mind, shoot me a note c/o the help desk, and I'll give you an address to ship it to me.

Hi Andy,

Smugmug seriously will handle this, even though it is COMPLETELY the fault of the deliverer, not the sender? Wow. Your customer service alone will keep me a SM user for all time, regardless of whether I continue to sell fine art prints through SM or not...

If I send it to you, will the USPS eventually get wind of this? I'd love to let you have it as proof, evidence, or whatever, but I want the "problem" with USPS to be solved too of course. Aside from rushing out and buying an enormous mailbox... ;-)

I'll write you at the helpdesk as soon as I get back from buying mat board- A 10x30" panorama also arrived today, pre-mounted onto 1/4" foam core from WHCC. :-D (hint hint...)

Take care,
-Matt-

Andy

Matthew Saville wrote:

Hi Andy,

Smugmug seriously will handle this, even though it is COMPLETELY the fault of the deliverer, not the sender?

Yes, our guarantee is our guarantee. One less thing for you, and all our pros, to worry about!

Wow. Your customer service alone will keep me a SM user for all time, regardless of whether I continue to sell fine art prints through SM or not...

Thanks!

If I send it to you, will the USPS eventually get wind of this? I'd love to let you have it as proof, evidence, or whatever, but I want the "problem" with USPS to be solved too of course. Aside from rushing out and buying an enormous mailbox... ;-)

You can just send me the details on the "inspected by" tag, paper that was in the envelope.

I'll write you at the helpdesk as soon as I get back from buying mat board- A 10x30" panorama also arrived today, pre-mounted onto 1/4" foam core from WHCC. :-D (hint hint...)

Take care,
-Matt-

Great!

steveL

Matthew Saville wrote:

you just do NOT fold pictures and jam them into the mailbox.

-Matt-

I don't think enough people care anymore. When you find those that do care about what is important to you, you feel kind of blown away by that.

I like your sig:
It's not about what you look at, but what you see.

I was browsing your galleries and your photography is excellent. That photo of the slug on the window pane goes with what you are saying in your signature: just a slug on the window but, oh, what a great image.

SteveM

steveL wrote:

Please don't take me for a smart guy but if you want to have large packages delivered to you, you need a large enough mailbox. The mail people have to deliver your mail and you need to provide a suitable box for the service you expect.

We don't have a mailbox at home. We stop by the post office of our (small) town and get our mail from our small letter sized box. If the item is too large for the small box the window clerks get the package from the back. We don't have any problems and they know us quite well. Our mail is much more secure than it would be in a box next to the street.

The box fee is trivial.

I had to reply to this one, because it put such funny images into my head. See, we have a home that was built in the 1930s and our mailbox is a 3x6" slot in the door with cast iron fittings. I just envisioned the mailman beating one of my parcels with a sledgehammer, through our mailslot. With that, we get at least a few packages a week minimum. My wife does and ships Ukranian Easter Eggs and the supplies coming in and the finished eggs going out usually amount to quite a few packages being exchanged. If the packages are too big, they have the "unwritten" option of leaving them on your porch/steps, etc. but they're SUPPOSED to leave a written notice that the package was too large, and to pick it up at the post office. There is no excuse for bending a huge cardboard parcel like that, other than the fact there was no "Do no bend" on it.

Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com

Matthew Saville

steveL wrote:

I don't think enough people care anymore. When you find those that do care about what is important to you, you feel kind of blown away by that.

I like your sig:
It's not about what you look at, but what you see.

I was browsing your galleries and your photography is excellent. That photo of the slug on the window pane goes with what you are saying in your signature: just a slug on the window but, oh, what a great image.

Thanks, Steve! I'm glad you enjoyed viewing my gallery. And it really is "what you see" that makes photography such a great form of art as a whole. Everyone looks at the same things, but sees them differently. For example, I have never in my life been able to see any of those "magic eye" puzzle images, never. Yet some people can just glance at those intricate, mezmerizing patterns and say "oh, it's a boat!" or "it's a cat!"

Take care,
-Matt-

PS: Steve M, your post made me laugh. I know a few neighborhoods that have door-slot mailboxes. You can't fit much through those!

Nutter

Just wanted to bump this up to the top again.

I also had this issue with an 8x12 I ordered for myself (belevie it or not almost a whole year went by before I ordered anything for myself) and the USPS box did not have 'photos do not bend' on it and it too came bent and mangled. The photo wasn't bent or crinkled (the cardboard inside saved it thankfully) but the envelope looked like it went through a wmd attack.

On a side note thankfully I haven't heard anything from my customers about it.

Keep up the great work!

-Ken

Andy

Effective immediately, 8x12s are going into tubes, not flats anymore.

onethumb

Nutter wrote:

Just wanted to bump this up to the top again.

I also had this issue with an 8x12 I ordered for myself (belevie it or not almost a whole year went by before I ordered anything for myself) and the USPS box did not have 'photos do not bend' on it and it too came bent and mangled. The photo wasn't bent or crinkled (the cardboard inside saved it thankfully) but the envelope looked like it went through a wmd attack.

On a side note thankfully I haven't heard anything from my customers about it.

Keep up the great work!

-Ken

Just to be clear, while we do put DO NOT BEND on most of our packages, the USPS has been very clear to us: They don't care. Their job is to deliver the package, and if folding it because you have a small mailbox is what's required, that's what they do.

They've told us more than once, when asked about it, that that's just common practice. They can't not deliver it and they don't have any other option. Doesn't matter how many DO NOT BENDs you put on it - they'll still bend it.

Don

Matthew Saville

Andy wrote:

Effective immediately, 8x12s are going into tubes, not flats anymore.

Oh boy... Now things are going to get really interesting.

I believe it was in another thread that I just stated how I don't have any faith in the general public's ability to properly handle and mount a print, let alone a tubed print. I really hope that Smugmug is at least researching a service for mounted / matted prints. The labs are out there, and it's not too expensive!

This is the ONE thing that would complete my online photo gallery experience. Otherwise, well I guess I'll need help setting up paypal integration so I can bypass Smugmug's print service all together. That would be kind of a shame, no?

Take care,
-Matt-

Matthew Saville

onethumb wrote:

Just to be clear, while we do put DO NOT BEND on most of our packages, the USPS has been very clear to us: They don't care. Their job is to deliver the package, and if folding it because you have a small mailbox is what's required, that's what they do.

They've told us more than once, when asked about it, that that's just common practice. They can't not deliver it and they don't have any other option. Doesn't matter how many DO NOT BENDs you put on it - they'll still bend it.

Don

Hi Don,

While I really don't mean to call Smugmug a liar, I must admit that I simply cannot find "DO NOT BEND" written anywhere on the originally pictured (damaged) package. If I recall, the standard USPS mail might indeed have "DO NOT BEND" on it and maybe so does 2nd day mail, but this was priority mail, or whichever is 1 step up from the bottom. (1st class?) Andy said it might have gotten covered up by the shipping sticker or something, but after looking closely at the stickers and stuff it doesn't really look like it.

I just thought I'd let you know...

Take care,
-Matt-

SteveM

onethumb wrote:

Just to be clear, while we do put DO NOT BEND on most of our packages, the USPS has been very clear to us: They don't care. Their job is to deliver the package, and if folding it because you have a small mailbox is what's required, that's what they do.

They've told us more than once, when asked about it, that that's just common practice. They can't not deliver it and they don't have any other option. Doesn't matter how many DO NOT BENDs you put on it - they'll still bend it.

Don

If that statement comes from a position of authority in the USPS it would be the only statement required for me to drop them as a shipping provider all together. We are creating and shipping art. That would be like hiring Ace Ventura to deliver glass products, kicking them down stairwells. Granted, you received shards of glass instead of a vase, but it only cost $1.25 to ship! Woohoo!

Andy

Matthew Saville wrote:

Hi Don,

While I really don't mean to call Smugmug a liar, I must admit that I simply cannot find "DO NOT BEND" written anywhere on the originally pictured (damaged) package. If I recall, the standard USPS mail might indeed have "DO NOT BEND" on it and maybe so does 2nd day mail, but this was priority mail, or whichever is 1 step up from the bottom. (1st class?) Andy said it might have gotten covered up by the shipping sticker or something, but after looking closely at the stickers and stuff it doesn't really look like it.

I just thought I'd let you know...

Take care,
-Matt-

Hence the packaging change, and my erem... "leaning on" our print lab

8x10s and smaller have DO NOT BEND prominently printed on them.

Andy

SteveM wrote:

If that statement comes from a position of authority in the USPS it would be the only statement required for me to drop them as a shipping provider all together. We are creating and shipping art. That would be like hiring Ace Ventura to deliver glass products, kicking them down stairwells. Granted, you received shards of glass instead of a vase, but it only cost $1.25 to ship! Woohoo!

We must have low cost shipping options available. There are many print orders that are a buck or two, or say five, one print, maybe an event shot, a runner wants his pic crossing the finish line or something. Hard for them to swallow expensive shipping on top of an inexpensive print.

And then there are non-pro print orders to consider, too.

The truth of the matter is that we have *very few* shipping issues, even with the USPS, against our total number of orders. We handle them with speed and courtesy, all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

Buyers like options, and I wonder about dropped sales because the shipping was "too high?"

SteveM

Andy wrote:

We must have low cost shipping options available. There are many print orders that are a buck or two, or say five, one print, maybe an event shot, a runner wants his pic crossing the finish line or something. Hard for them to swallow expensive shipping on top of an inexpensive print.

And then there are non-pro print orders to consider, too.

The truth of the matter is that we have *very few* shipping issues, even with the USPS, against our total number of orders. We handle them with speed and courtesy, all part of the SmugMug Guarantee:
http://www.smugmug.com/prints/our-guarantee.mg

Buyers like options, and I wonder about dropped sales because the shipping was "too high?"

Very true. We always have the Smugmug guarantee to fall back on. I don't think the packages are insured, so you guys just have to eat the cost which I'm not very fond of. The USPS should have to take responsibility. I think it's a very localized situation when it happens. As I said earlier, my (regular) mailman would NEVER do such a thing. He actually parks at houses and knocks when delivering larger parcels before he delivers his regular route. Someone please remind me to give him an extra generous card this holiday season.

DavidTO

SteveM wrote:

Very true. We always have the Smugmug guarantee to fall back on. I don't think the packages are insured, so you guys just have to eat the cost which I'm not very fond of. The USPS should have to take responsibility. I think it's a very localized situation when it happens. As I said earlier, my (regular) mailman would NEVER do such a thing. He actually parks at houses and knocks when delivering larger parcels before he delivers his regular route. Someone please remind me to give him an extra generous card this holiday season.

http://www.remindme.com/

cabbey

SteveM wrote:

If that statement comes from a position of authority in the USPS it would be the only statement required for me to drop them as a shipping provider all together. We are creating and shipping art. That would be like hiring Ace Ventura to deliver glass products, kicking them down stairwells. Granted, you received shards of glass instead of a vase, but it only cost $1.25 to ship! Woohoo!

I got the same response from our local post master when I spent a good ten minutes in his office ranting about this very topic a few years back. He took me on a quick wander through the sorting stage of the local delivery process, where all your mail gets grouped together into three sections... "small" (envelopes up to about 9x6 and post cards), "large" (catalogs, magazines, large envelopes, and our beloved photo prints), and "packages"... anything that isn't flat basically. This is all done in "carrier route sort"... so litterally the order that your mail carrier drives/walks to deliver the mail. Right here is where all hope for "do not bend" is lost. Your prints can EASILY land between say a couple of catelogs or magazines in this process. For the "normal" rural delivery, when the carrier goes to deliver your mail, they take the top stack of 'large' items, check that it's your address, take the top stack of 'small' items, checks that it's your address, and then usually cups the 'larges' into a taco shell shape, drops the 'smalls' into it and slips it into your box. Usually they prep this taco while pulling up to your box, so they're only partially paying attention to it.

Andy wrote:

Effective immediately, 8x12s are going into tubes, not flats anymore.

Ugh. I hope they're using mechanical rollers, or at least very very well trained people. I've gotten a few art posters in tubes, and they almost always end up with a set of creases along one side where they were rolled too tight to begin with, then slipped into the tube and allowed to expand. That's almost worse than the USPS bending them... it not a crap shoot then, it's a forgone conclusion.

Matthew Saville

cabbey wrote:

Ugh. I hope they're using mechanical rollers, or at least very very well trained people. I've gotten a few art posters in tubes, and they almost always end up with a set of creases along one side where they were rolled too tight to begin with, then slipped into the tube and allowed to expand. That's almost worse than the USPS bending them... it not a crap shoot then, it's a forgone conclusion.

Ditto. The last time I ordered a tubed print from SmugMug was, well yeah, the LAST time...

For the record, the problem is said to have been fixed. (gosh it must have been what, a year ago?) But personally, I think that having a tubed print arrive in the tube un-wrinkled is only the beginning of the battle. Try mounting that curly bugger! If the print arrives un-harmed in it's tube, it almost always ends up with a crease by the time it gets mounted and matted.

For a while I just ordered them flat from WHCC, and now I just go all the way and have them mount it for me on 1/4" foam core. My next step will be to figure out how to get prints mounted on foam core with a 2" border around it.

I would like to be able to let the general public order their print mounted and matted, but I don't know if I'd like to do the matting or if I'd like to swallow the extra cost of letting a lab do it. Having a mat cut is apparently a really expensive process, for some reason, and it's the one thing that I've gotten really good at. So the cool thing would be for Smugmug to take an order for a matted print, automatically send ME the mounted print, which I mat, and then ship to the customer.

I realize that this would put SmugMug's paramount quality guarantee out to dry. Sure, SmugMug is very nice to handle the oddball mailman who bends an 8x12", but there is no way SmugMug can handle the stream of complaints that would come in when a photographer neglects to mat and mail his orders. The ultimate question then is, whether or not SmugMug is willing to simply do it but disclaim that their quality guarantee cannot be extended to orders that "pass through the photographer" for matting / framing etc..

Here's to hoping!

-Matt-

SteveM

Just an update on the "Do Not Bend" situation and the USPS bashing...

I recently ordered print samples from www.psprint.com They shipped these in a triangular tube via UPS. This tube was handed to my wife, wasn't crammed into any mailbox, and even though it wasn't raining, one end of the package was wet. Here are some photos of the package, and the poster print samples found within. You can click for the original sized photos.



Notice the huge multiple scratches in this photo poster. This is the THICKEST photo paper I've ever felt, too. At least twice the thickness of any photo I've ever felt.

Notice the back of the tractor photo and the huge gashes.

So, all in all, I guess USPS isn't any better or worse than anyone else. I would have refused this package if it hadn't been free print samples.

So I guess this begs the question, "What can Brown mash for you?"

EDIT: In UPS's defense, nowhere on the package did it say "Do not pulverize".

Andy

SteveM wrote:

Yeesh. Shipping is tough, eh?

Matthew Saville

Good grief, do you live on the side of the freeway or something? That package looks like it fell off a truck in rush hour traffic...

SteveM

Matthew Saville wrote:

Good grief, do you live on the side of the freeway or something? That package looks like it fell off a truck in rush hour traffic...

I'm guessing somewhere in Metro Detroit there is another package, that one semi-spherical, that looks similar, after a game of UPS style stickball. Either that or some UPS clowns in the warehouse thought it'd be a hoot to play Star Wars lightsaber duel. One can only speculate. I wasn't aware they actually employed Ace Ventura to handle parcels.

"This sounds broken."
"Probably, but I'm sure it was something very nice, sir."

Or something like that.