shooting sports with a flash

greenjk

i am having been shooting night football w.o a flash which i get really grainy pics if shooting with a flash how do i aviod red eye (using a d2xs sb800 flash) can this be helped through the ttl mode or ttl-bl modes would love to hear some insight and has anyone messed with that better beamer attachment let me know thanks

:ian

illuminati919

If I were you I wouldn't shoot night football with a flash it can only reach so far, try using a a lens with really low aperture setting maybe a 300 mm f/2.8. I guess you can use the flash when the players are running really close to the sideline but thats something you're not guaranteed of.

Marko

Art Scott

Also if you cause a player to mess up a play and they can be certain it was you & your flash it might cause you to no longer be permitted to shoot at the games.......the very few times I have watched pro-ball I never saw a side line flash......

I would up the iso and use a noise reducer (like Noise Ninja) to remove some of the grainy effect.

cecilc

greenjk wrote:

i am having been shooting night football w.o a flash which i get really grainy pics if shooting with a flash how do i aviod red eye (using a d2xs sb800 flash) can this be helped through the ttl mode or ttl-bl modes would love to hear some insight and has anyone messed with that better beamer attachment let me know thanks

I shoot night high school football all the time with a flash ... as do the newspaper shooters ... never had a complaint from an official, a coach, a player, a fan, a parent, nobody .....

Flash does a couple of things for you (in my opinion, that is ....). First and foremost, it gives you some more light ! Photography is all about light, and if you ain't got it your shots are going to show it. Secondly, flash negates the color cast that you normally get from stadium lights, making colors look more natural and giving them some "pop" as well ....

Having said that, my preference would be to use just ambient light to shoot a game .... also, my preference would be that all the high schools have enough light at their stadiums to enable us to shoot at f2.8; ISO 800; 1/500 shutter speed with daylight-balanced lighting. Now ....what are the odds that's going to happen ?

The comment about flash not reaching very far does have some merit. Using flash for night football needs to be very "target specific", so you need to make sure that you shoot really tightly and not try to illuminate the entire field and everyone on it. It won't work ....

".......the very few times I have watched pro-ball I never saw a side line flash......" That's very true .... most colleges and pros have restrictions on using flash - but they've got the lighting to support people shooting without flash!

The following examples are from last Friday evening. These were shot with my Mark II in AV mode; ISO 1250; f2.8 (I think); camera synched with the flash at 1/250. I had a 550EX set on ETTL with no compensation dialed in.







To avoid "red-eye" you'll need to get the flash off-camera - either below or on top off of the hot-shoe. I've got my flash attached to the monopod about 18 inches or so below the camera. And I have tried the better beamer thing - I would need to work with it some more and be more comfortable using it before I could say that I was happy with the results .... although many people say they get good results with it. So far, I haven't.

dbaker1221

AHHHH....can of worms here..

I've shot games with flash for a small town paper. Have had no complaints from coaches, but I''ve only done that because I'm not set up with a better lens yet. I've talked to a few other photogs shooting without flash & they have 2.8 lens. If you can get away from using flash I think you should. I know I'd feel terrible if I caused a problem. But not all of us can afford to run out & buy a nice lens.
as for how it will look? ...The newspaper prints are pretty forgiving on grainyness. With or without flash. Also there are some programs out there to help suppress grain in post production.

good luck

sirsloop

I think for people sports there should be no issues using flash. I'm very hesitant to take a flash into a indoor horse ring. Most players dont even notice the flash, but a horse will spook at just the sight of a "big scary guy with a big black thing that flashes"

donek

greenjk wrote:

i am having been shooting night football w.o a flash which i get really grainy pics if shooting with a flash how do i aviod red eye (using a d2xs sb800 flash) can this be helped through the ttl mode or ttl-bl modes would love to hear some insight and has anyone messed with that better beamer attachment let me know thanks

:ian

I haven't shot a night FB game yet, but have shot a number of Volleyball games. I added a flash for the first time Tuesday night and it made a big difference in the finished image. It was an SB 800 mounted on top of the camera and I had no problems with red eye. Even if I had, it's not all that hard to correct.

My wife was at the game watching and told me she didn't even notice I was using the flash. It wasn't distracting to her as a spectator at all. I had a chat with the coach asking her to let me know if there were any issues, but did not get a single complaint. I think as long as you are carefull to use only what is necessary, then you'll do fine.

I don't shoot exactly as most recommend on the forums either. It's common to see the suggestion to shoot in Aperature priority or shutter priority. I find that exposure values are constantly changing if I shoot A or S priority. I shoot manual based on a little experimentation. I just shoot wide open and play with shutter speed looking at the histogram. If I shoot ISO 1600 f 2.8 and 1/250 I have to push it about 1 stop in Nikon Capture. This results in a lot of noise. I added the flash set at manual 1/64 power. I didn't have to push my exposure at all in capture and got a much cleaner image. With your SB 800, you'll be able to pop off multiple flashes even on low batteries at 1/16 power.

I've become a fan of manual if the lighting is consistent. I'm not sure how good it is at your night games, but if it's pretty consistent, you may minimize some of your post processing time by trying it.

Here's a shot from tuesday. Only anoying thing is the shadow cast by the flash. The color is accurate and I got better stop action with less motion blur.



Hopefully that helps a bit.

Captn14

You might try using flash in M mode and dialing it down to 1/4 or 1/8 power.
I have been trying that with my shots the last couple of weeks. I like my
results. Not pro quality but not bad...You get more of a lower fill flash this
way...Also helps keeping red eye down...

pat.kane

donek wrote:

...It's common to see the suggestion to shoot in Aperature priority or shutter priority. I find that exposure values are constantly changing if I shoot A or S priority. I shoot manual based on a little experimentation... I've become a fan of manual if the lighting is consistent.

Consistent lighting definitely lends itself to manual shooting and indoor volleyball is probably an ideal sport for this.

A lot of the Av/Tv suggestions are likely based on the assumption you're shooting outdoor sports where the subjects are moving into and out of different lighting situations.

I shoot mostly baseball and whenever possible I shoot in manual. The only tricky shots have been where the field is partly shaded and if so, I'll sometimes shift back to Av. The normal stuff (light changing from day to dusk) is easy to accommodate in manual.

stephiewilliams

You get to know really quickly with high schools sports which ones can be flashed and which ones are a no no, for instance gymnastics will kick you out oif you flash (understandably so). Pro sports have the lighting to support no flash and/or have strobes mounted so that the regular shooters in the complex can trigger them by remote.

When I shoot football I shoot on M mode, lens wide open, 800 ISO and 1/250. Seems to work well. I also suffer from the red eye problem...need to learn my lesson and mount my flash off camera. I don't find that I am all that limited by using flash...not like you have to wait for the players to get 1 inch away from you...you have a bit of distance. If you are shooting from the sideline you will get pictures. I would agree with the others though and suggest if you can to invest in a better lens as opposed to flash. Especially if you are looking to progress into the professional sports.

Just my 2 cents

Captn14

stephiewilliams wrote:

When I shoot football I shoot on M mode, lens wide open, 800 ISO and 1/250. Seems to work well. I also suffer from the red eye problem...need to learn my lesson and mount my flash off camera. I don't find that I am all that limited by using flash...not like you have to wait for the players to get 1 inch away from you...you have a bit of distance. If you are shooting from the sideline you will get pictures. I would agree with the others though and suggest if you can to invest in a better lens as opposed to flash. Especially if you are looking to progress into the professional sports.

Just my 2 cents

Steph - don't you get motion blur with only 1/250 SS....Even when I use my flash at night I still
don't go below 1/500....

stephiewilliams

Captn14 wrote:

Steph - don't you get motion blur with only 1/250 SS....Even when I use my flash at night I still
don't go below 1/500....

Usually I do fine even with football. When there isn't much ambient light the flash freezes the action for me. I really only worry about my ISO, Aperture and flash duration. Here is one I took the other night...

Not the best, just a sample

spider-t

flash bracket
Getting the flash a little higher with a flash bracket works for me to eliminate red-eye when I'm shooting in the dark with a zoom lens.

I use this one and can totally recommend it, but there are lots of good ones.

cheers,
Trish

GriggJa

Night Shoots for High school Football Setup
I use a 70-200mm f2.8L with Canon 580ex in high speed mode with a -2 setting for the power. I start off this time of year at ISO400 working up to 1600 during game time and adjust the power to maintain 350-500 shutter speeds in manual mode. Note: I shoot 1 stop under on the light meter.

Our high school as great lighting, but shooting football w/o flash is a no go. You need the fill. Especially if you want to sell prints.

mercphoto

Captn14 wrote:

Steph - don't you get motion blur with only 1/250 SS....Even when I use my flash at night I still
don't go below 1/500....

It depends on how much flash power you are putting out compared to ambient and if your flash is on high-speed synch or not. If you are putting out just a bit of flash then yes you'll need a fast shutter. But if your flash is a reasonably high percentage of the total light then it acts like a disco strobe and will help stop action, making that 1/250 shutter "effectively" faster. This assumes you are NOT using high-speed synch, which ruins the strobe effect entirely.

Oh, and to reduce red-eye, put the flash at the bottom of your monopod. This is like a giant flash bracket and moves the flash so far away from the lens that red-eye should be a non-issue.

This image was shot at 1/200 shutter, manual exposure with E-TTL flash, not on high-speed synch. Normally at a shutter speed this slow the wheels should be a giant blur, but you can crisply see each spoke. The rider ordered a 20x30 of this print, which I saw, and continues to be my favorite MX capture ever.

torags

I have fast lenses and my problem with stadium lights are color and location. The color varies but they all beam from above and shadows the participants. I find PP is more difficult because of the resulting dynamic range

I don't have the flash thing worked out yet and I appreciate all the helpful comments

I have to change my style of shooting motorsports at night, since I have to wait for the moment of capture, rather than running off 8fps.

I prefer the extra light as fill light and not to light the entire subject. The comment to take the flash off the shoe is very helpful.

thanks folks

BTW this one is a favorite of mine.. no flash

Dano

Get the flash up or down to eliminate red eye. I've tried it below but prefer it above. I have a custom made bracket that puts the flash about 18" above my lens. The trick is to get the perfect balance of ambient and flash to stop the action eliminating any ghosting. You get ghosting because ambient light is bleeding into the flashed image. A good starting point is 250 or 300 shutter speed (depending on your body), 800 ISO, F4 adjust as needed. One from last Fri.

cr8ingwaves

Danny,

Would it be possible to see a pic of your custom bracket?

Dano

I modified the top a little but this is it basically.