Color management nightmares... CS2 and sRGB

Coachzed

Hello all,

I have been trying to figure out a color management problem for quite some time now. I feel like I have tried every possible combination of color management scheme and am still having the same problem.

Here are the symptoms:
Colors in photos exported from Photoshop CS2 or Lightroom appear slightly desaturated and "off" when viewed in Firefox or Internet Explorer. When viewed through Safari, they look the same as in PP or Lightroom.

Using the options "don't color manage" or "proof colors/ Monitor RGB" causes the photos to look the same in PP as they do on the web.

Here are the steps that I have tried:
Using a calibrated LCD on OS X, I have tried setting PP's working space to Adobe RGB, sRGB and Monitor RGB all with the same results. I have tried using sRGB from the moment I convert from RAW and have also tried converting to sRGB just before exporting the .jpg from photoshop.

I've been searching for a while about this, and most the problems wind up coming down to users not converting to sRGB before exporting from PP. I am most definitely doing this.


Here's where I currently see the situation:
As I understand it using "proof colors/ Monitor RGB" displays the photo straight to the monitor, with no color management. Selecting "don't color manage this photo" does the same thing. This is the only way that I see the same thing in PP and on the web through Firefox of IE. Does this mean that PP is not converting to sRGB properly? I believe Safari is color-aware, so it sees the sRGB tag and reads the image properly. However, non-color aware browsers see the image very differently than any other program on my comptuer (Preview, iPhoto, Lightroom, and PP all see the same colors).


Can anybody help me out here? I'm about to lose it.

<EDIT> Curiouser and curiouser... when set to sRGB Capture One PRO sees the colors exactly the same as they appear through Firefox/IE. What's more, Preview shows the same colors that appear in Capture One--but Photoshop displays more different and more saturated colors than either. Now I am *really* confused.

Andy

Hi, could you elaborate on what "PP" is? Thanks.

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

Hi, could you elaborate on what "PP" is? Thanks.

Sorry. PP=Photoshop

Andy

Ok - and you say "using a calibrated" monitor - how do you calibrate, please?

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

Ok - and you say "using a calibrated" monitor - how do you calibrate, please?

Pantone Eye-One DisplayLT

Andy

Coachzed wrote:

Pantone Eye-One DisplayLT

OK Thanks.

In photoshop, are your color settings set to sRGB? If not, when you "save as" are you certain that the color space is in sRGB? Something's not right, we just need to nail it down

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

OK Thanks.

In photoshop, are your color settings set to sRGB? If not, when you "save as" are you certain that the color space is in sRGB? Something's not right, we just need to nail it down

I've been using Monitor Color as my working space, but converting to sRGB just before saving. The pictures look the same if I use a sRGB working space. I am definitely sure that I am saving in sRGB, with sRGB as the embedded profile. Also, if I save in RGB and upload to smugmug (which then converts it to sRGB) the colors are still off from what I see in Photoshop, though slightly different than if I converted to sRGB in Photoshop.

Thanks for the help.

Andy

Coachzed wrote:

I've been using Monitor Color as my working space, but converting to sRGB just before saving. The pictures look the same if I use a sRGB working space. I am definitely sure that I am saving in sRGB, with sRGB as the embedded profile. Also, if I save in RGB and upload to smugmug (which then converts it to sRGB) the colors are still off from what I see in Photoshop, though slightly different than if I converted to sRGB in Photoshop.

Thanks for the help.

email me ONE RAW file pls - help@smugmug.com attn andy

I'll do a sample workflow for you,ok?

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

email me ONE RAW file pls - help@smugmug.com attn andy

I'll do a sample workflow for you,ok?

I just tried, but the message got bounced back:

"

---

The following addresses had permanent fatal errors

---

help@smugmug.net
(reason: 552 Message size exceeds fixed limit)
(expanded from: <help@smugmug.com>)"

Andy

Check your pm I'll give you diff address thanks

Coachzed wrote:

I just tried, but the message got bounced back:

"

---

The following addresses had permanent fatal errors

---

help@smugmug.net
(reason: 552 Message size exceeds fixed limit)
(expanded from: <help@smugmug.com>)"

mazranz

Hey guys,

any updates on the color calibration issue? I'm actually facing the same issue with my photos.

Thanks!

Andy

mazranz wrote:

Hey guys,

any updates on the color calibration issue? I'm actually facing the same issue with my photos.

Thanks!

Hi - there's no issue - save for individual workflows that may need to be adjusted.

Tell us what problems you are having, and please detail your workflow completely, and we'll be happy to help!

Andy

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

Hi - there's no issue - save for individual workflows that may need to be adjusted.

Tell us what problems you are having, and please detail your workflow completely, and we'll be happy to help!

Andy

Andy-

Would it be possible for you to email me back a sRGB .jpg that you processed from the RAW file I sent you?

Andy

I think your monitor profile is also the culprit. Try setting your Monitor to sRGB as well, but better yet is to calibrate.

As far as your raw file.

1) open in Raw converter, assign colorspace of sRGB
2) work on file in photoshop
3) save AS filename.jpg

Be sure Photoshop working space is set to sRGB as well.

That should do it.

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

I think your monitor profile is also the culprit. Try setting your Monitor to sRGB as well, but better yet is to calibrate.

As far as your raw file.

1) open in Raw converter, assign colorspace of sRGB
2) work on file in photoshop
3) save AS filename.jpg

Be sure Photoshop working space is set to sRGB as well.

That should do it.

Ok, thanks. I have already tried all these steps.

Can you send me a .jpg you created of that RAW file I sent you? It seems like photoshop is not properly converting/assigning sRGB.

mazranz

Andy wrote:

Hi - there's no issue - save for individual workflows that may need to be adjusted.

Tell us what problems you are having, and please detail your workflow completely, and we'll be happy to help!

I'm actually pretty new with the color calibration stuff. Just a few quick questions:

1. When I open the image, do I use sRGB or the monitor calibrated profile?
2. Is AdobeRGB better than sRGB?

I used the Spyder2Express to calibrate my display.

Thanks!

Andy

Coachzed wrote:

Ok, thanks. I have already tried all these steps.

Can you send me a .jpg you created of that RAW file I sent you? It seems like photoshop is not properly converting/assigning sRGB.

Sent. Does your Save As screen look like this:

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

Sent. Does your Save As screen look like this:

Thanks for the .jpg, Andy. The .jpg you sent me exhibits the same problems as the ones I was making myself--much greener and more saturated in photoshop or Apple Preview than it appears through a browser. The same as before, selecting "proof colors" with Monitor RGB shows it in photoshop as it appeas in my browser, but it is pretty clear that this means something is wrong.

Here is what my save as screen looks like.

I think I'm just about ready to give up. I've changed every factor I can think of in my workflow, and I've calibrated my monitor 3 times. Same symptoms regardless of what I do.

Coachzed

First type of working space I tried:

Coachzed

And the second:

Coachzed

While I'm still at it, a sample of the color differences I'm seeing (I hope this shows up outside my computer):

jonvachon

color managment
I also struggled with this problem and after some research myself, I believe I have an answer. The problem is that all web browsers see colors differently. Your images look the same in safari as in photoshop because safari, unlike many other browsers looks for imbedded profiles to display correct colors. Most other browsers don't bother to look for profiles and simply use a standard srgb profile which can differ from monitor to monitor. In internet explorer, under preferences, you can set it to use color sync and then it will read profiles like safari and look the same as photoshop.

Another problem you may be having with photos looking desaturated and lighter in firefox and internet explorer is you monitor gamma setting. If you are set to mac standard of 1.8 gamma, then the images uploaded to the web which is standardized at 2.2 (same as pc monitors) will look light. I would recomend that you recalibrate your monitor set at 2.2 gamma. I have done this and photos in firefox and internet explorer look the same as safari.

Once you have done this you should be able to set your photoshop color space back to srgb and have things look much more similar between apps. good luck.

Coachzed

jonvachon wrote:

I also struggled with this problem and after some research myself, I believe I have an answer. The problem is that all web browsers see colors differently. Your images look the same in safari as in photoshop because safari, unlike many other browsers looks for imbedded profiles to display correct colors. Most other browsers don't bother to look for profiles and simply use a standard srgb profile which can differ from monitor to monitor. In internet explorer, under preferences, you can set it to use color sync and then it will read profiles like safari and look the same as photoshop.

Another problem you may be having with photos looking desaturated and lighter in firefox and internet explorer is you monitor gamma setting. If you are set to mac standard of 1.8 gamma, then the images uploaded to the web which is standardized at 2.2 (same as pc monitors) will look light. I would recomend that you recalibrate your monitor set at 2.2 gamma. I have done this and photos in firefox and internet explorer look the same as safari.

Once you have done this you should be able to set your photoshop color space back to srgb and have things look much more similar between apps. good luck.

Thanks. I have my monitor calibrated to 2.2 gamma. If I use 1.8, images do look lighter, but the color values appear the same.

My primary concern is with getting visitors to my site to see generally the same colors that I do. I'm not too concerned with how the images look on my web browsers in particular, but I just want to be certain that the average person with a decently-well calibrated monitor is seeing images as I set them. That's not the experience I'm having right now.

fatih

Well, I'm having the exact same problem and while searching about it, I hit the information at this link:

http://blogs.smugmug.com/great-prints/2005/06/25/smugmug-alters-my-colors/

as well as your post. It clearly explains why the problem occurs, but I still don't know what to do to solve it as setting my monitor profile to sRGB means negating all my monitor calibration efforts IMO.

I'm using an Eye-One Display2 to calibrate my monitor, and before realizing this problem I thought I was calibrated. Oh well...

Coachzed

fatih wrote:

Well, I'm having the exact same problem and while searching about it, I hit the information at this link:

http://blogs.smugmug.com/great-prints/2005/06/25/smugmug-alters-my-colors/

as well as your post. It clearly explains why the problem occurs, but I still don't know what to do to solve it as setting my monitor profile to sRGB means negating all my monitor calibration efforts IMO.

I'm using an Eye-One Display2 to calibrate my monitor, and before realizing this problem I thought I was calibrated. Oh well...

Setting my monitor profile to sRGB does indeed make photoshop look very similar to the browser. But there is *no way* this can be an accurate profile compared the my calibrated monitor. "Neutral" grays look ice blue.

Thanks though. I'm not sure I've gotten any closer to figuring out this problem.

fatih

Coachzed wrote:

I'm not sure I've gotten any closer to figuring out this problem.

My feeling exactly. What's the point of investing in color management solutions if you're gonna go set you monitor profile to sRGB?

Carbon Based

fatih wrote:

My feeling exactly. What's the point of investing in color management solutions if you're gonna go set you monitor profile to sRGB?

Have you gone into your "startup" file and deleted Adobe Gama? If you haven't then every time you boot your system its not loading the correct monitor profile.

Also there is a windows color applet that you can download that lets you assign profiles to different devices.

When you boot your computer, observe your monitor. At some point you should see a very slight change in the monitor colors as the calibrated profile is loaded. I use OptixXR and a little pop up comes up telling me it's loading and the monitor display changes subletly too.

Andy

Coachzed wrote:

Setting my monitor profile to sRGB does indeed make photoshop look very similar to the browser. But there is *no way* this can be an accurate profile compared the my calibrated monitor. "Neutral" grays look ice blue.

Thanks though. I'm not sure I've gotten any closer to figuring out this problem.

Coach, where do you stand as of today?

Coachzed

Andy wrote:

Coach, where do you stand as of today?

Have not resolved the problem. I tried Aperture and its soft proofing which is significantly more accurate than Photoshop.

Oddly enough, I did a quick comparison against a friend's PC with a non-calibrated monitor and his colors look very very close to the "correct" colors I see in photoshop. Perhaps it is just Firefox and IE on the Mac failing to apply my monitor profile correctly.

Carbon Based

Coachzed wrote:

Have not resolved the problem. I tried Aperture and its soft proofing which is significantly more accurate than Photoshop.

Oddly enough, I did a quick comparison against a friend's PC with a non-calibrated monitor and his colors look very very close to the "correct" colors I see in photoshop. Perhaps it is just Firefox and IE on the Mac failing to apply my monitor profile correctly.

I didn't think web browsers are color aware applications.

thirdlife

Coachzed wrote:

Hello all,

I have been trying to figure out a color management problem for quite some time now. I feel like I have tried every possible combination of color management scheme and am still having the same problem.

Here are the symptoms:
Colors in photos exported from Photoshop CS2 or Lightroom appear slightly desaturated and "off" when viewed in Firefox or Internet Explorer. When viewed through Safari, they look the same as in PP or Lightroom.

Using the options "don't color manage" or "proof colors/ Monitor RGB" causes the photos to look the same in PP as they do on the web.

Here are the steps that I have tried:
Using a calibrated LCD on OS X, I have tried setting PP's working space to Adobe RGB, sRGB and Monitor RGB all with the same results. I have tried using sRGB from the moment I convert from RAW and have also tried converting to sRGB just before exporting the .jpg from photoshop.

I've been searching for a while about this, and most the problems wind up coming down to users not converting to sRGB before exporting from PP. I am most definitely doing this.


Here's where I currently see the situation:
As I understand it using "proof colors/ Monitor RGB" displays the photo straight to the monitor, with no color management. Selecting "don't color manage this photo" does the same thing. This is the only way that I see the same thing in PP and on the web through Firefox of IE. Does this mean that PP is not converting to sRGB properly? I believe Safari is color-aware, so it sees the sRGB tag and reads the image properly. However, non-color aware browsers see the image very differently than any other program on my comptuer (Preview, iPhoto, Lightroom, and PP all see the same colors).


Can anybody help me out here? I'm about to lose it.

<EDIT> Curiouser and curiouser... when set to sRGB Capture One PRO sees the colors exactly the same as they appear through Firefox/IE. What's more, Preview shows the same colors that appear in Capture One--but Photoshop displays more different and more saturated colors than either. Now I am *really* confused.

One thing, stick with sRGB, IIRC, the web doesn't see Adobe RGB anyways. Also, most print labs, including smugmug use SRGB.

2nd thing: You are shooting raw and importing into Photoshop, correct?
Adobe RAW will automatically change your RAW file as to how it thinks it should be. Although, I am not sure why what you see changes when you save them and view them on the same monitor unless its saved with Adobe RGB.

3rd thing: PP = Post-Processing PS = Photoshop <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

This issue is interesting. I'll be curious if anyone else has some insight.