Got my new lens....help!!!

Barefoot and Natural

Hi all,
I hope I am posting in the right forum, if not, please move me properly!!

Okay, I just received my used Canon lens 70-200 f/4
I am very excited about it and took some sample pics last night to see what I could do.

Apparently....I have no idea what I am doing!!! Below is the gallery where I have posted some pics from last night. I know this is not a great low light lens, but why are my pictures so varied!!

I have done no post editing on any of these...just some cropping.
I played around with the apetures and ISO speeds on some and then when I read the exif info.....my shutter speed is doing some many different things on its own. When the shutter speed is high, they look good. When it drops they look BAD! I know that is how it works, but how can I set the speed.

So my questions is......some of these look fine and some are just WAY off!
How do I set an appropriate shutter speed for low light and what settings are typically good for low light?
Am I supposed to change settings after I zoom in?

My equip is: Canon Rebel XT and Canon 580 EX and Canon 70-200 f/4 shot all in AV mode.

Someone please have a look and tell me how to control shot to shot.
http://barefootandnatural.smugmug.com/gallery/2099742

Thank you for your time!!
Heather

Mog

Certainly looks like the slow shutter speed is causing the problem.

Low light shooting you want to be using a high aperture ( Low number ) and get the ISO cranked up to around 800, set all the settings first them zoom and compose the shot.

I would guess with that lens you should be able to handhold 1/70, anything slower and you'll really need to start using a tripod/solid object.

I used to suffer from the same problem until I bought a f2.8 lens, gives great low light shots...

Barefoot and Natural

Mog wrote:

I used to suffer from the same problem until I bought a f2.8 lens, gives great low light shots...

Sure wish I could get one of those!!! For now...I have to work with what I can afford.

I know there is a way to set my shutter speed right? But once I put it into AV Mode is goes right back to Apeture Priority.
What's a girl to do?

windoze

Barefoot and Natural wrote:

Sure wish I could get one of those!!! For now...I have to work with what I can afford.

I know there is a way to set my shutter speed right? But once I put it into AV Mode is goes right back to Apeture Priority.
What's a girl to do?

im not the person to ask but im a little confused. If you're in Av mode - that is Aperture priority ( you select the aperture ). If you swith to Tv - then you select the shutter speed.

troy

Barefoot and Natural

windoze wrote:

im not the person to ask but im a little confused. If you're in Av mode - that is Aperture priority ( you select the aperture ). If you swith to Tv - then you select the shutter speed.

troy

You are so right!! I was confused! I was always told when i switched to manual mode...to use AV...never thought to try any other. Is it better to shoot in TV in lower light situations? Because then TV mode will automatically find the right apeture for me....right?

Mog

Barefoot and Natural wrote:

Because then TV mode will automatically find the right apeture for me....right?

AV Mode, you select the Apeture, the camera then selects the appropriate shutter speed.

TV Mode, you select the Shutter speed, the camera then selects the appropriate aperture.

windoze

Barefoot and Natural wrote:

You are so right!! I was confused! I was always told when i switched to manual mode...to use AV...never thought to try any other. Is it better to shoot in TV in lower light situations? Because then TV mode will automatically find the right apeture for me....right?

Heather,

lets slow down a little and back up.
when u say you want to explore lowlight photography what do u mean?
outside at night or around the house ?
because if you're trying to capture low light images inside your house ( example ) your daughter sleeping in a lowlit room then im gonna recommend you go back to Av mode and get a tripod.
id use ISO 800 to ISO 1600 and try to shoot closer to the 70 range than the 200 range. i doubt if your gonna shoot in a totally dark room.......
down load neat image from the web to reduce the noise from higher iso images..
personally i hate flash and using flash is a whole story in itself!!!!
if this is what you're into then you really need a "faster" lens but I SAY you can get reasonable results with what you have....

but then again - im into birds - so what do i know..............

troy

Barefoot and Natural

Yes, I am talking about around the house type of places! Not totally dark rooms...or night moon shooting...tried that.... hahahaha (see attached)

No, I just want to be able to "catch my children" doing things from far away and typical tihings like that. Our home is not well lit....just don't like lots of lights on....but it is by no means pitch black.

windoze

Barefoot and Natural wrote:

Yes, I am talking about around the house type of places! Not totally dark rooms...or night moon shooting...tried that.... hahahaha (see attached)

No, I just want to be able to "catch my children" doing things from far away and typical tihings like that. Our home is not well lit....just don't like lots of lights on....but it is by no means pitch black.

85 mm f/1.8 and the 50 mm 1.4 wouldnt cost a lot and are excellent lenses.

cmason

I think you have a few things going on, so I suggest that you go outside in the nice sunlight and take a few photos and try again

A few things to remember about a long lens: make sure that your shutter speed is AT LEAST the inverse of your focal length, to make sure you don't get shake messing up your image. This means for 200mm, make sure you have at least 1/200 or faster. If you can't get this, use a tripod, or reduce focal length.

Next, is the flash. I basically use the flash in two modes: Manual and P (Program). Program when I am lazy, Manual when I am looking for a specific shot. I use Av all the time, EXCEPT when I use the flash. You shot in Av, and Av and Tv work very differently when you have your flash on. In Av mode, the camera IGNORES the flash completely, and sets the camera for available light. In dark rooms, this has the effect of giving you slow shutter speeds, which screw up the picture and the flash. For this reason, put it in M, select your shutter speed, and take a picture, see what happens. most times the camera gets it right. All other times, I just put the thing in "P" and take my shot.

So, two new rules: inverse focal length as minmum speed, and M and P for flash.

claudermilk

The problem I see on all those shots is camera shake. The shutter speed is way too slow (1/20 mostly). So like what was just said, you need to be at least 1/focal length; with this lens zoomed all the way in that's 1/200 (or 1/320 including crop factor). I don't use flash hardly at all, so am not an expert, but it seems odd to have to be at the settings you were with flash (f5.6, ISO400-1600, 1/20 or 1/60 shutter in most); something just doesn't seem quite right there. I would expect to be able to set the shutter to 1/250 (max synch) at whatever aperture I wanted & ISO 100 and let the TTL flash figure out how much light to throw.

cmason

claudermilk wrote:

...but it seems odd to have to be at the settings you were with flash (f5.6, ISO400-1600, 1/20 or 1/60 shutter in most); something just doesn't seem quite right there. I would expect to be able to set the shutter to 1/250 (max synch) at whatever aperture I wanted & ISO 100 and let the TTL flash figure out how much light to throw.

Right. The first bit there is because of Av mode. The second bit is how it works in Manual mode.

Barefoot and Natural

cmason wrote:

Right. The first bit there is because of Av mode. The second bit is how it works in Manual mode.

Okay, I am going to try to take some more shots in pure daylight and in the other modes that have been talked about.
I know a few of you don't like flash....and I don't generally use my flash in daylight/outdoors.

Thanks for ALL of your help everyone! I was so excited to get this lens and was nervous too about buying something used!

Thank you again...will post pics soon

Heather

Barefoot and Natural

Okay....so I went outside to enjoy some sun....and then some cloudiness!

Once again....so PS just some cropping!

I think these look great, but I am intrested in your opinions and to give me some advice on how to get those "sharp" eyes from so far away?

Thanks again for all of yall's help!

Heather

cmason

Barefoot and Natural wrote:

I think these look great, but I am intrested in your opinions and to give me some advice on how to get those "sharp" eyes from so far away?

Thanks again for all of yall's help!

Heather

Ok, here is my experience on the "sharp eyes" thing. I get sharp eyes only when I am absolutely, positively, undeniably, really, really, really sure I have the center focus pt of my XT nailed on the eye of my subject. And even then, unless I am doing "portrait" distances, say 70mm or less, this is nearly impossible.

I think this is very very tough on the XT and 100-200 focal lengths, not because of the lens, but because of the photographer and the camera. The photographer because I forget to use a tripod and I don't hold it as steady as I should, and, (I suspect, but have no proof) the camera because the XT focus resolution is not all that good compared to the 30D and especially any of the EOS 1's. I think the XTi has an advantage here.

Now up fairly close, I do fine and get some incredibly sharp eyes, again, assuming I get the focus pt nailed on the eye. BTW, Do NOT focus and recompose. It won't work. Ensure that you have a focus pt on the eye for the shot you want.

LiquidAir

At least on the 5D I have found that the acutal AF sensor is larger than the rectangle in the viewfinder. If I point the rectangle directly at the eye it often picks up the eyebrow (particularly on people with dark hair) and ends up focusing a bit in front of the eye. However when I really need critical focus on the eye (particularly when shooting at f/2.8 and wider) I point the focus center at the cheek just below the eye (trying to split the difference between the nose and the ear) so the only high contrast feature within the area of the focus sensor is the eye.

rebelxtnewbie

Just like a few others have mentioned, it looks like the problem is camera shake. I guess this is one of those examples of a Great lens is not the limiting factor for great pictures...it is the photographer!:D

Anyways, the general rule of thumb for preventing camera shake is sutter speed is 1/(focal length x FOVCF). You can also use a stabilizer..tripod, monopod, bean bag etc. if available.

When I used my 70-200 f/4 (sold it to help with my f/2.8 purchase!) indoors, I would switch to manual mode or Tv priority & bump up the ISO to 800 or 1600 to make sure the sutter was fast enough. Once I got my flash it would be enough to take closer shots at Av. I know a lot of people don't like using flash, but if bounced it makes great shots without washing out the subject. The 580ex is a great flash for indoors & don't hesitate to use it during the day too as a fill flash!

LuckyBob

cmason wrote:

In Av mode, the camera IGNORES the flash completely, and sets the camera for available light. In dark rooms, this has the effect of giving you slow shutter speeds, which screw up the picture and the flash. For this reason, put it in M, select your shutter speed, and take a picture, see what happens. most times the camera gets it right.

Go into your camera's settings and change custom function 3 to on (1). That way the camera will lock the shutter speed in Av mode with flash to the sync speed (1/200th sec). This way you won't have to worry about the limitations of P mode or swap back and forth between manual and as long as you're in flash range you'll get a basically perfect exposure every time (save for the issues with/features of the EOS flash system - see the link below)

Granted, turning CF.3 on is *exactly* the same thing as using manual mode with a fixed shutter speed of 1/200th, and as long as you get used to changing the shutter speed to 1/200 in manual mode with the flash on, you always have the option of going back to Av mode and using your flash in fill mode.

Much more reading on the EOS flash system: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/