An improvised session...

NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
edited November 10, 2006 in People
... that didn't turn out too well.

I made this little unplanned session in our living room for a friend of mine. She insisted on a black background, and everything was very much improvised.

I had some trouble with the dark background and her dark hair, and I have to say I'm not too excited with the results.

Any comments on what I should have done better with these shots?

101430038-L.jpg




101450054-L.jpg



101450557-L.jpg



101447802-L.jpg


Thanks a lot!

Comments

  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Seems like the pictures are currently unavailable. Is that me or… ?
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • kygardenkygarden Registered Users Posts: 1,060 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Same here...no images showing...ne_nau.gif
    https://www.thephotographyhobbyist.com/
  • judahjudah Registered Users Posts: 253 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Nordic wrote:
    Any comments on what I should have done better with these shots?

    Nordic, you should have turn the camera on in the first place! :D
    Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me!
    I once was lost, but now am found;
    Was blind, but now I see.

    http://judah.smugmug.com/
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    judah wrote:
    Nordic, you should have turn the camera on in the first place! :D

    :D:D
    Yes, I think I just got OWNED by myself!
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    kygarden wrote:
    Same here...no images showing...ne_nau.gif

    Sorry guys! I forgot that I turned external links off in this gallery!

    It should work now, but you will need to refresh the page (Hit F5).

    Sorry!
  • TristanPTristanP Registered Users Posts: 1,107 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Pics 1 and 3 would have benefited greatly from a hairlight. Pic 4 seems to have a hairlight but it's also spilling onto the background. Pic 1 with a hairlight would be really nice.
    panekfamily.smugmug.com (personal)
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  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Nordic wrote:
    Sorry guys! I forgot that I turned external links off in this gallery!

    It should work now, but you will need to refresh the page (Hit F5).

    Sorry!

    Yes it works now thumb.gif

    I really like the first portrait thumb.gif
    But, to me, the other picture are very "kitsch", excepted the second one, maybe: they look like 80's heavy metal's music gear catalog. But that's a matter of style ; technically, you did quite well (yet, you should iron your black curtain a little :D ).
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • igophotoigophoto Registered Users Posts: 38 Big grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    TristanP wrote:
    Pics 1 and 3 would have benefited greatly from a hairlight. Pic 4 seems to have a hairlight but it's also spilling onto the background. Pic 1 with a hairlight would be really nice.

    I agree. Separation is needed from the black backdrop, espescially when wearing dark clothing.
  • OwenOwen Registered Users Posts: 948 Major grins
    edited November 8, 2006
    Black muslin - and muslin in general, eww - should not be seen.

    Move her further away from the backdrop and stop down your aperture/increase the power of the lights.

    Owen
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    TristanP wrote:
    Pics 1 and 3 would have benefited greatly from a hairlight. Pic 4 seems to have a hairlight but it's also spilling onto the background. Pic 1 with a hairlight would be really nice.
    Thank you for your comments!
    I wholeheartly agree. Unfortunatly, as this was shot in our living room, there was no room for a hair light. :( I tried to improvise one by setting up a Sigma speedlight on wireless mode and bouncing it from the ceiling.
    This created at least some light on her hair.

    On the 4. pic I raised a strobe with a golden umbrella as high as I could and let it fire from the side. It spills on the background, (showing nicely the wrinkles in it....) but at least that creates some seperation to her clothes and the black guitar.
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    AntoineD wrote:
    Yes it works now thumb.gif

    I really like the first portrait thumb.gif
    But, to me, the other picture are very "kitsch", excepted the second one, maybe: they look like 80's heavy metal's music gear catalog. But that's a matter of style ; technically, you did quite well (yet, you should iron your black curtain a little :D ).

    Hi!

    Thanks for commenting!
    As for "Kitsch", I rather find them boring, or uninspired, myself. If they would be more interessting, I could live with the technical defects. But as they are now, I am not happy about the pictures.

    I mean, 80s heavy metal music catalog would be great, if we had archived the quality. Because that would be exactly what she wanted. :)
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    Owen wrote:
    Black muslin - and muslin in general, eww - should not be seen.

    Move her further away from the backdrop and stop down your aperture/increase the power of the lights.

    Owen

    Hi Owen! wave.gif

    Moving her farther away was not possible.

    What would a change of the aperture do for the background?
    I could have opend up the aperture more to blur away the wrinkles of the backdrop, but stoping it down and increasing the lights? Wouldn't the increased DOF make the backdrop even more obvious?

    Thanks for your help!
  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    Nordic wrote:
    Hi!

    Thanks for commenting!
    As for "Kitsch", I rather find them boring, or uninspired, myself. If they would be more interessting, I could live with the technical defects. But as they are now, I am not happy about the pictures.

    I mean, 80s heavy metal music catalog would be great, if we had archived the quality. Because that would be exactly what she wanted. :)

    Sure, it's like you approached it, whithout getting to it close enough. Well, it's 2006, now, it's quite hard to recover 1980's style, which depended on gear, too :)
    Nordic wrote:
    What would a change of the aperture do for the background?
    I could have opend up the aperture more to blur away the wrinkles of the backdrop, but stoping it down and increasing the lights? Wouldn't the increased DOF make the backdrop even more obvious?

    Hi,

    it's not about blurring the background.

    In fact, stoping down the aperture (getting to something like f16 or so) "cuts" your flash range, which won't light up the background. This way, you'll get a very dark background.

    Here's an example. Daylight at 3pm, but you don't really see the background:
    ad20061104-071.jpg

    Same thing, inside:
    ad20061102-008.jpg

    Both images are taken at f16 or so (I don't remember).


    thumb.gif
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • OwenOwen Registered Users Posts: 948 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    AntoineD wrote:
    Hi,

    it's not about blurring the background.

    In fact, stoping down the aperture (getting to something like f16 or so) "cuts" your flash range, which won't light up the background. This way, you'll get a very dark background.

    deal.gif What he said! :)
  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    Owen wrote:
    deal.gif What he said! :)

    …so my english's okay :D
    I was afraid it's not.
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited November 9, 2006
    Nordic,

    A pretty girl, and I liked the side lighting, but the lack of seperation from the background is a problem, as is the closeness of the model to the backdrop.

    If you are shooting a 350XT Canon with a Canon EOS 430ex or a 580ex, you can shoot the camera in Manual Mode, and control the lighting of the subject by varying the aperture, and the lighting of the background by raising the shutter speed with the flash set to High Speed Synch.

    I use this technique with some macro shots in the garden. The near subject is illuminated by the flash which is varied as needed by the aperture chosen, whereas a high shutter speed ( 1/500th or more ) can cause the background to be underexpsoed by several fstops and rendered black. I use this technique to eliminate cluttered backgrounds, shooting macro, in a garden in daylight, just like Antoine demonstrated with his shot of the kids with the background underexposed.

    This technique will not work as well with studio strobes because their flash duration may be significantly longer than an EOS flash unit.

    If your camera has X synch, or an internal lens iris shutter it will sync at much higher speeds than a focal plane shutter also ( without using HighSpeed Synch which is a flash setting not a camera setting )

    Interesting discussion and demonstration of the use/mis-use of lighting.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2006
    pathfinder wrote:
    This technique will not work as well with studio strobes because their flash duration may be significantly longer than an EOS flash unit.

    I think the speed will still play a role :)
    But the most important is the aperture, I guess.

    Shooting all manual (camera + flash) is the good way, too thumb.gif

    It allows to set things up tightly so you know what you're doing.
    For portrait, don't rely on such automatism as TLL or Av or anything like that… use the time you have thumb.gif
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2006
    AntoineD wrote:
    Sure, it's like you approached it, whithout getting to it close enough. Well, it's 2006, now, it's quite hard to recover 1980's style, which depended on gear, too :)



    Hi,

    it's not about blurring the background.

    In fact, stoping down the aperture (getting to something like f16 or so) "cuts" your flash range, which won't light up the background. This way, you'll get a very dark background.

    Here's an example. Daylight at 3pm, but you don't really see the background:
    ad20061104-071.jpg

    Same thing, inside:
    ad20061102-008.jpg

    Both images are taken at f16 or so (I don't remember).


    thumb.gif

    Thank you for explaining this! ( BTW, your pics don't show! ;) )
    I will make a test series to get a feel for this.
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2006
    pathfinder wrote:
    Nordic,

    A pretty girl, and I liked the side lighting, but the lack of seperation from the background is a problem, as is the closeness of the model to the backdrop.

    If you are shooting a 350XT Canon with a Canon EOS 430ex or a 580ex, you can shoot the camera in Manual Mode, and control the lighting of the subject by varying the aperture, and the lighting of the background by raising the shutter speed with the flash set to High Speed Synch.

    I use this technique with some macro shots in the garden. The near subject is illuminated by the flash which is varied as needed by the aperture chosen, whereas a high shutter speed ( 1/500th or more ) can cause the background to be underexpsoed by several fstops and rendered black. I use this technique to eliminate cluttered backgrounds, shooting macro, in a garden in daylight, just like Antoine demonstrated with his shot of the kids with the background underexposed.

    Thank for you comments, pathfinder!
    What you described seems like a very interesting technique. I will definitly try that! I just started to shoot macros, and your technique seem really helpfull with that.
  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2006
    Nordic wrote:
    Thank you for explaining this! ( BTW, your pics don't show! ;) )
    I will make a test series to get a feel for this.

    My pics don't show…? What do you mean ? ne_nau.gif
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
  • NordicNordic Registered Users Posts: 237 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2006
    AntoineD wrote:
    My pics don't show…? What do you mean ? ne_nau.gif

    Hmmm, strange things happen here. Your examples don't show in firefox 2.0,
    but they do in IE 7. headscratch.gif

    Anyway, your pictures are great and show this technique very good.
    I love that dark background look! Very cool! I can't wait to try that!

    Especially the first picture is amazing!
  • AntoineDAntoineD Registered Users Posts: 393 Major grins
    edited November 10, 2006
    Nordic wrote:
    Hmmm, strange things happen here. Your examples don't show in firefox 2.0,
    but they do in IE 7. headscratch.gif

    Try looking into "Preferences > Content > load images automatically" (translated from french :D ) because it does show in my own firefox 2.0 thumb.gif
    Nordic wrote:
    Anyway, your pictures are great and show this technique very good.
    I love that dark background look! Very cool! I can't wait to try that!

    Especially the first picture is amazing!

    Thanks, much appreciated. To be honest, I do like this one with the kid, I had something like 2 minutes with them and I'm quite happy with the result. But I need a better flash (from a light point of view) to improve shadows & everything thumb.gif
    have a quick look at my portfolio (there's a photolog, too) :: (11-07-2006) experiencing a new flash portfolio. What do you think?
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