No sales?....same here.

PWysard

I've been reading a ton of threads about people who can't seem to make money on Smugmug. I get an impressive amount of hits and views, but not a dime in sales(from Smugmug). I've tried everything I can to generate sales, short of rating and leaving fake comments about my photos or redesigning the page (which doesn't seem to matter if people aren't buying the work).

Photography is my hobby...I love it...and I'm teaching myself (from the ground up) as much as I can when I have the time. I've had good sales in art galleries and a lot of great feedback... but no Smugmug sales.

My page hasn't been updated lately because I no longer have a functioning camera...it died...I miss it... getting a new one next month(ish).
I fear that without frequent updating it's even harder for anyone to see my photos unless they stumble across them (I know...keywords...etc...etc...etc)...but do consumers actually browse and buy on Smugmug or have I payed $150+ so other photographers can window-shop when they get bored?



Any advice?

While you're here..... http://wysardphotofolio.smugmug.com

Andy

PWysard wrote:

I've been reading a ton of threads about people who can't seem to make money on Smugmug. I get an impressive amount of hits and views, but not a dime in sales(directly from Smugmug). I've tried everything I can to generate sales, short of redesigning the page (which doesn't seem to matter if people aren't buying the work).

Photography is my hobby...I love it...and I'm teaching myself (from the ground up) as much as I can when I have the time. I've had good sales in art galleries and a lot of great feedback... but no Smugmug sales.

My page hasn't been updated lately because I no longer have a functioning camera...it died...I miss it... Getting a new one next month(ish).
Without frequent updating it's harder for anyone to even see my photos unless they stumble across them (I know...keywords...etc...etc...etc)...but do consumers actually browse and buy on Smugmug or have I payed $150+ so other photographers can window-shop?

Any advice?

I think you will find that those that make the most and most consistent sales, are doing much, much more:

* flyers, brochures, advertising
* direct sales calls
* event promotions
and more.
It sure depends on the type of work you do, what you are selling (portraits, events, fine art?). But I don't know many successful pros who don't work their butts off in the promotion department.

DavidTO

PW,

Take this with a huge grain of salt, as I have made no sales, do not consider myself a photographer worthy of sales.

I believe the key for you to making sales is becoming a better photographer. Your shots are that of a good hobbyist, not ones that I would pay money for. I think that more than anything else explains your lack of sales.

BeachBill

PWysard wrote:

but do consumers actually browse and buy on Smugmug

I'm still in the process of building out my site, processing photos and getting them uploaded so I haven't done any marketing yet. However all of my existing photos and galleries are keyworded with terms users may be searching for. I've had some unexpected sales from complete strangers over the past month. I do not know how they found my site or images, but they did and I'm already well on my way to covering the first year cost of Smugmug.

Photography is a hobby for me and my goal is to make enough to cover the cost of the hobby; anything above that would just be icing on the cake!

greenpea

Personally I have only made one sale that was to a complete stranger ...but I think I made the sale because my images, were hanging in a starbucks, with my name and url prominately displayed next to each image.

The way I see it, there are many thousands of people selling many millions of images online through smugmug, and it is not smugmug's responsibility to promote each and every photographers work. I think smugmug's job is to be the very best online tool available displaying and selling your images, which I believe they excell at.

Ultimately its all up to you promote your photography and let people know where they can find it and buy it. I thinlk the more time you are willing to put into promiting yourself, your photography and your website the more sales you will make.

bham

My advice would be to pick what you think are your strongest images and post in a forum here and get critiqued. I have looked through your site once or twice and nothing really struck me that I would want except possibly the blue beauty and I railroad track photo. But they were not strong enough for me to pay for. I hope that's not to harsh just trying to be honest.

One suggestion is to also do things differently. I saw so, so many photos were it was a picture of an object and it was dead center. So so boring. If I were you I would look at the challenge thread and go back and look at each challenge and the finalist. Many of those are strong images. Find what you like and try to figure out why and then try to use that in future images. When just putting images out there and saying hey come see these they are for sale is like a guy in Alaska putting a sign in his front yard for Alaskan tours. Like Andy said market yourself. But I also feel that you need to have stronger images to sell as well.

thebigsky

I don't wish to he harsh but I think you're being unrealistic about the market. The Internet is a great medium for photographers but it has also meant that there are literally millions upon millions of images out there all within easy reach, you really need something special to stand out.

PWysard

Thanks all...
Thanks for replying everybody!

Some really helpful info!

johng

my 2 cents
It's like any other business. You have to:

1. Find / make a marketable product that people want to buy.
2. Figure out who your target audience is
3. Market to that audience.

You're not going to sell anything if you don't do all 3 and do them well. You can be the best photographer in the world but if you're marketing to the wrong audience or not marketing at all you won't sell.

Conversely, depending on what prduct you're selling and how much competition there is out there for that same product - that will determine how good you need to be.

Take my area for instance - sports photography at the High School level and below. To sell to parents, you need a certain amount of skill, but success is driven 90% by marketing. Conversely, selling to newspapers it's 80% skill and 20% marketing. Why? Because your target audience is fairly simple - photo editors for newspapers.

I've seen sports photogs on the web that are making great $$$ that are mediocre talent wise in photography. But, they've done well at the other apsects - finding the right target audience and successfully marketing to that audience.

But, if you're trying to sell stock images (basic landscapes or wildlife shots for instance) over the internet without marketing you better have brilliant work. There are a TON of stock images out there

DougMunn

We make sales
We use two gallery services, SM and other. Both are an adjunct to our on-site event photo services. Both have paid for themselves over and over, time and time again.

BUT, for us, our galleries are an adjunct to our regular photography, an extra service and convenience that we promote.

As such, they pay for themselves.

Doug

Jeffro

PWysard wrote:

I've been reading a ton of threads about people who can't seem to make money on Smugmug. I get an impressive amount of hits and views, but not a dime in sales(from Smugmug). I've tried everything I can to generate sales, short of rating and leaving fake comments about my photos or redesigning the page (which doesn't seem to matter if people aren't buying the work).

Photography is my hobby...I love it...and I'm teaching myself (from the ground up) as much as I can when I have the time. I've had good sales in art galleries and a lot of great feedback... but no Smugmug sales.

My page hasn't been updated lately because I no longer have a functioning camera...it died...I miss it... getting a new one next month(ish).
I fear that without frequent updating it's even harder for anyone to see my photos unless they stumble across them (I know...keywords...etc...etc...etc)...but do consumers actually browse and buy on Smugmug or have I payed $150+ so other photographers can window-shop when they get bored?



Any advice?

While you're here..... http://wysardphotofolio.smugmug.com

Here's the biggest problem I saw on your site....originals are on. That equals free photos. Why buy when I can right click and save? You also have external links on, which allows sharing. You have no watermark either. I doubt you will ever sell anything as long as people can save your photos for nothing.

Even after you fix all that, you still may have slow sales. You have to find your target, people who like your style. Personally, I don't care for the treatments you use. I'm not a big fan of PS. A photo should speak for it's self to me. I looked at several of your galleries and soon tired of the treatments....which seemed to be on every photo. But my taste may not be that of yours, or anyone else's, so if you like it, and it works for you fine. I shoot for me first, that's what keeps me happy.

And like has been said, there are millions and millions of photos online....a photo on smugsite is a needle in a haystack. First one has to find the haystack (smugsite) then the needle (picture).:D

photogmomma

You may want to also check your purchasing. I find that fewer options makes people happier. So I only offer lustre for my prints - it's very professional and quite nice!

I also added one of your photos to my cart and had VERY odd options for what I could purchase. (It was the photo of an eye with something in it. ) I could only purchase 4 wallets, a key tag or something else. And all those were quite cheap - less than $10, if I'm not mistaken. But a digital download was $100? Very strange. You definitely want to rethink what you're selling and for how much and which products.

Also... TURN OFF ORIGINALS! WATERMARK EVERYTHING! Set prices for your portfolio to catch any galleries you forget to price. And advertise!

I've made sales, but mine have been through portraits. I do have a lot of random photos from where I am, but I figure that those will eventually be generating interest to push people to my site to get portrait sessions. I don't expect them to actually sell. (Although I have sold a few, which surprised me.)

Don't give up. If you do it RIGHT, you'll make some money! I have!! And I love how it works!

dogwood

johng wrote:

It's like any other business. You have to:

1. Find / make a marketable product that people want to buy.
2. Figure out who your target audience is
3. Market to that audience.

Very, very true! And ironically, you may have to do this for MONTHS or even YEARS before some folks make a purchase-- even if it's a photo they want.

For example, I shoot a lot of local fashion shows. Initially, I thought the clothing designers would be my target audience-- but I quickly learned the folks who actually buy prints or downloads are the models. They want prints for their portfolios.

I have one model I've shot dozens of times over the years-- she's never made a purchase. Then a week ago, she calls me up, tells me she wants photos from all these shows, so I set her up a gallery and sent her the link. For a week-- nothing-- not even a thank you. Then Friday night-- wham! She buys 19 prints!

And just to help you feel better-- I'm definitely not paying the mortgage with my print sales. But-- back in the summer I drafted up a business plan and part of it was to make $200 in print sale profits a month. And you know what? Having that goal really inspired me to figure out how to make that happen. And... I'm very happy to report for the last three months, I've actually exceeded my goal (my profit check from SM for November arrived yesterday-- $256.47).

Nah, I'm not bragging but I am telling you it's possible. I'm just a regular joe like most folks here-- I love photography and want to go pro-- but at this point I still work a day job and just freelance the photography stuff. But you can be sure I always have business cards with me and I always hand them out if there's the slightest chance of a sale. Sometimes people wait (I now have a $5 per photo fee if someone waits more than 30-days after an event to order) so don't get discouraged. It's not instant but it is possible.

sirsloop

I picked a specific group of people that I wanted to take/sell photos to, approached venues where I could take photos of a large number of them (for free), worked it so I could hand out business cards to all of the participants of the events, posted photos online and let the people decide if they want to purchase prints.

This has worked VERY well for me in horse show photography, and Im trying to cut into dog show photography, more motorsports racing, and possibly downhill skiing next year. The key for me was to get photographs of all the participants and make sure that they all knew that I had photos of them for sale. The rest is the easy part, hanging out for a few hours every weekend shooting a couple thousand photos.

Your images are real nice, but I think you are missing the all important "who"... maybe a little of the "why" too. Who is going to see your site and want to purchase your photos of beautiful flowers, train track images, lanscapes, or more modern art images. Maybe a little bit why, as in why would they want your images over someone elses (besides the fact that yours are very nice looking)? Or why should they click on your link to see your gallery at all?

I think A LOT of those images would make excellent stock photos - an open door there that you may have success at. Another possibility is to print the images yourself, frame them youself, and sell them in coffee shops, or other local businesses at a premium. You can print out a medium sized image, mat, and frame it for around $50. If you sell it at a coffee shop for 150 bucks (or more), give 10% to the store you landed yourself a decent profit. I know many local shops are very receptive to this, and like the idea of having fresh new art in their place for sale. Every time they sell one, replace it with a different photo. To be honest with you I dont know who really purchases prints of images like yours online or how to find the people that do. Thats the real tough part that I wish you all the best at finding

sirsloop

dogwood wrote:

Sometimes people wait (I now have a $5 per photo fee if someone waits more than 30-days after an event to order) so don't get discouraged. It's not instant but it is possible.

Residual Income - The best part about having thousands of photos online from many past events! I love seeing orders from events MONTHS ago!

3rdPlanetPhotography

Andy that is very true.... I look in the mirror... My butt is GONE! I worked it off but I must say that I'm starting to smile because 3rd Planet Photography is growing fast

Thanks for all your support and advice!

johno

Lots of great stuff here... True, you have to really find a market, via portrait, sports, school, etc.

I stumbled upon a local minor league football team and many of the players have ordered from me. I even made a dvd video and sold it at the year end banquet.

I would disagree with David... He is a very worth photographer... I'm subpar but I have an exclusive market.

Also, all of my profits go to help several children I met while doing missions in Africa. I really don't want to make to much because I've not set up my non-profit business license.

Another market, and I know this will get a BIG BOOOOOO! from many here at dgrin, is microstock sites.

I've uploaded subpar images and have started collecting.

I'm not saying put out your best stuff to be abused by microstock co. but if you have an image on your computer not making money any money is money. but don't sell yourself short.

peace.
johno~