Christmas Party photography

FatNakedGuy

Just wondering what folks expect to be paid for doing a company Christmas Party with aproximately 400 people. I work for said company and was just approached to do the job.

....employees come into the event and pose with spouse for photo
....onsite printing not necessary (company will order from smugmug at cost)
....ambient photos throughout the night
....aprox 4 hours work for the night plus processing time on the images

I'm considering bartering for equipment to do the job properly and this is what I'm considering (I think?! any other suggestions?)

Gitzo G-1327 Mountaineer Mk2 Inter Pro Studex Performance Carbon Fiber Tripod Legs (Rapid Column)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=RetrieveSku&IC=GIG1327&Q=&O=

Digi Bee lighting package
http://www.alienbees.com/digi.html

I guess what I'm asking is... am I in the ballpark for compensation, or am I asking for too much/little?

Thanks in advance for your time!


Rick
http://weller.smugmug.com

Angelo

FatNakedGuy wrote:

Just wondering what folks expect to be paid for doing a company Christmas Party with aproximately 400 people. I work for said company and was just approached to do the job.

....employees come into the event and pose with spouse for photo
....onsite printing not necessary (company will order from smugmug at cost)
....ambient photos throughout the night
....aprox 4 hours work for the night plus processing time on the images

I'm considering bartering for equipment to do the job properly and this is what I'm considering (I think?! any other suggestions?)

Gitzo G-1327 Mountaineer Mk2 Inter Pro Studex Performance Carbon Fiber Tripod Legs (Rapid Column)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=RetrieveSku&IC=GIG1327&Q=&O=

Digi Bee lighting package
http://www.alienbees.com/digi.html

I guess what I'm asking is... am I in the ballpark for compensation, or am I asking for too much/little?

Thanks in advance for your time!


Rick

Will you be "on-the-clock" while shooting?

Sam

Wow, Did you leave a lot out! First couple of things that popped into my head. I ain’t never having no fat naked guy take photos of me!

I think it would make a huge difference to have a better understanding of your position within your company, how much experience you have, and how they approached you for this. As an example, did they ask you if you would like to take photos at the Christmas party, or did they ask if you would give them a quote to do it?

Also how many photographers, and portrait set ups do you plan on having? I did a little math. (A little math is all I’m good for.) 400 people, guess at 170 couples, and say 60 single people. That’s 230 portraits. That will allow you a whole 1.04 minutes with each couple / person. Wait, you said you were also going to take “ambient” photos through out the night. That will cut into your portrait time a little. Say only 30 minutes of “ambient” photos. That will give you 52.2 seconds per portrait.

If you worked only 4 hours at the party, and another 4 hours in post, your employer would probably look at your proposal as working for 8 hours, and receiving, $1200. That would be $ 150.00 per hour. Now I don’t know about your company, but I can tell you my company would choke big time at that price. if I told them I would have 3 photographers, one assistant, 2 portrait set-ups, and a post processing person, they would try and negotiate using less photographers, equipment, and we don’t need no stinking PP. But of course the final quality must be of the highest standards.

Just off the top of my head.

Sam

bham

Sam wrote:

Wow, Did you leave a lot out! First couple of things that popped into my head. I ain’t never having no fat naked guy take photos of me!

I think it would make a huge difference to have a better understanding of your position within your company, how much experience you have, and how they approached you for this. As an example, did they ask you if you would like to take photos at the Christmas party, or did they ask if you would give them a quote to do it?

Also how many photographers, and portrait set ups do you plan on having? I did a little math. (A little math is all I’m good for.) 400 people, guess at 170 couples, and say 60 single people. That’s 230 portraits. That will allow you a whole 1.04 minutes with each couple / person. Wait, you said you were also going to take “ambient” photos through out the night. That will cut into your portrait time a little. Say only 30 minutes of “ambient” photos. That will give you 52.2 seconds per portrait.

If you worked only 4 hours at the party, and another 4 hours in post, your employer would probably look at your proposal as working for 8 hours, and receiving, $1200. That would be $ 150.00 per hour. Now I don’t know about your company, but I can tell you my company would choke big time at that price. if I told them I would have 3 photographers, one assistant, 2 portrait set-ups, and a post processing person, they would try and negotiate using less photographers, equipment, and we don’t need no stinking PP. But of course the final quality must be of the highest standards.

Just off the top of my head.

Sam

Sam I think you are failing to compensate for photos at cost.

Shay Stephens

The cattle call portrait session is pure death. I would scrap that idea and offer to do candid party shots only. I have never heard of a McPortraits session ever working out well for anyone involved.

And processing portraits takes a lot longer than one a minute. You really need to consider the amount of time that will be spent in post and in delivery of the portraits.

Harryb

http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=47659

FatNakedGuy

Pocket-Wizard Plus II Transceiver/Relay Radio Slave
Thanks all of your replies, I really appreciate it! The McPortrait comment almost made me fall off my chair.. That was funny! (and exactly what I was thinking of the project to start with).

Did the math and it'll be an 18 hour project with editing. Decided to up the ante a tad and asked for a couple of these too:

Pocket-Wizard Plus II Transceiver/Relay Radio Slave
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=441353&is=REG

I saw the images that the company paid big bucks for the past few years and to be honest, I was embarassed for whoever took the shots. I *KNOW* I'll do better, even if it's my first time and I fail miserably at it. I'll just consume a handful of advil and dive right in. Figure it'll be great experience and I'll have some cool toys to play with afterward.

I've got a 2nd camera so am considering having my 12yr old daughter to do the McPortrait stuff for $20 an hour while I walk around and do candid. She has a fantastic eye (much better than mine), and it'll ease the workload a little.

I've submitted my equipment list and will update the site here on if it flies or not. To be honest, I don't care one way or another.. I just enjoy shooting and could use the tools. If it works out cool, if not cool..

One question though... If I am trading time for equipment, how do taxes work? I don't want to do anything shady.

Thanks!

gluwater

FatNakedGuy wrote:

I've got a 2nd camera so am considering having my 12yr old daughter to do the McPortrait stuff for $20 an hour while I walk around and do candid. She has a fantastic eye (much better than mine), and it'll ease the workload a little.

No offense but if I was a client paying $1500 for you to take pictures at a company party and you told me you would be haveing a 12 year old takeing the posed pictures I would laugh at you. Also, have you ever used lighting before, such as the lighting you are trying to aquire through this business deal? Will you get it in advance so you have time to practice with it and learn how to use it? From the sound of this you may be setting yourself up for trouble. This is your work afterall. If they are not happy with the end results you will have to face your coworkers everyday. I would think about this and not just look at it as an oportunity to aquire new gear.

FatNakedGuy

gluwater wrote:

No offense but if I was a client paying $1500 for you to take pictures at a company party and you told me you would be haveing a 12 year old takeing the posed pictures I would laugh at you. Also, have you ever used lighting before, such as the lighting you are trying to aquire through this business deal? Will you get it in advance so you have time to practice with it and learn how to use it? From the sound of this you may be setting yourself up for trouble. This is your work afterall. If they are not happy with the end results you will have to face your coworkers everyday. I would think about this and not just look at it as an oportunity to aquire new gear.

The deal for gear is for two shoots only (Christmas Party and Santa sitting w/kids). Whatever comes after that would cost them prints only and I've let them know that up front.

I also let them know that if we were to do this, I would need the equipment 2 weeks prior to the event to setup/configure/learn it.

And as unbelievable as it may seem, my daughter (13yrs in March) has an incredible eye. I don't know where she gets it because I just started shooting a year ago and she's only fooled around with my cameras for a short period of time. I bought her a Canon Rebel XT for Christmas but she will be shooting with one of my MarkIIn's for this gig. I figure I'll do the McSnappers while she wanders around the event shooting ambient shots until I finish. Then I'll take over and she can go for a Starbucks hot chocolate with her mom while I do the rest of the night.

I'm not worried about doing poorly as people seem to really like what I do so far. I've got backup equipment, lots and lots of storage cards, a wireless setup to transmit the shots to a laptop as a third backup (markiin has two cards in it), and I plan on visiting the venue a week prior to do a walkthrough with my daughter.

What could possibly happen??? hahahaha

The reason I don't want to ask for cash on this gig is because technically it could be considered a "conflict of interest" according to company policy. There is nothing in the policy however about trading time for equipment, and Sr. Human Resources is OK with this arrangement (it's actually easier for them to procure equipment than it is to cut a check).

I'm new to the area and this seems like a good way to let people know who I am and what I can do. I'm not interested in doing this type of event full-time however. I enjoy concert photography much more!

Oh, had it wrong... 200 people, or 100 couples max.



(ahhh, i see where you were talking about my daughter doing the portrait stuff... I typed that out wrong... I would be doing the McPortraits while she did ambient shots prior to the event.. fatfingered it!)

FatNakedGuy

After considering what everyone has said here, I've decided to NOT do the gig. A lot of great points were made here, and do I really want to complicate my life by doing something like this at work? Ummmmmm... nah! So thank you, you, and YOU!

I contacted several photographers in the area to quote the job and have passed those along to the company. Amazing what they are charging (cheapest was $3650...)

Thanks again!

SloYerRoll

gluwater wrote:

This is your work afterall. If they are not happy with the end results you will have to face your coworkers everyday. I would think about this and not just look at it as an oportunity to aquire new gear.

Don't crap where you eat. Experiment on ppl that don't know you. Put the toys you want on plastic and build a portfolio. Then go into the next years work event. Slay them all w/ your killer shots and hit the boss man up for that raise you deserve.

Seriously, it's cool to pull out if your not 100%. Better snickered at for jumping on somthing in haste and bailing out; than being scorned for crappy work.

JMO

dangin

don't crap where you eat? i totally agree. i work for a Town and i'll either volunteer to document an event, but that's about it. no parties, and certainly no portraits.

SloYerRoll wrote:

Don't crap where you eat. Experiment on ppl that don't know you. Put the toys you want on plastic and build a portfolio. Then go into the next years work event. Slay them all w/ your killer shots and hit the boss man up for that raise you deserve.

Seriously, it's cool to pull out if your not 100%. Better snickered at for jumping on somthing in haste and bailing out; than being scorned for crappy work.

JMO

gus

Shay Stephens wrote:

The cattle call portrait session is pure death.

This is clearly an american thing. Companys want peoples photos each year ? Honestly can someone tell me what this is about ?

Nikolai

Rick,
Guys already said a lot of true-to-the-heart things (like don't expect it to be easy, don't count your 12 y.o. do formals, etc.).
All I'm gonna say is that the company I worked for used to hire a photog for things like that. ~200 ppl. Formals per couple/single. Few candids. CD with lowres jpegs. One set of 4x6s, the formal portraits in "card mattes", the candids "as is". About 4 hours. Guys worked alone, had a one-light portable setup plus smth like 480EX for candids.
All that was for $1500.
That was three years ago.

HTH

ian408

Excepting Shay, has anyone who commented ever done this?

I've done it for my company for a couple of years. It's pretty straight forward.
We've done a three light & neutral background style. No sitting, no multiple
poses (unless no one is waiting) and it's all stand-up. We're there for an hour
before dinner starts (or two beers). We didn't do on-site printing and prints
were offered through smugmug.

BTW, if you are expecting to make money, guess again. People are cheap-
skates and expect that if you know them, you'll "cut them a deal" or that
because you work for the company, you will PS & print them something
nice (for free).

Cattle call does suck. But I learned a little about portrait photography and
lighting and I had a pretty good time. For the most part, people liked the
results too.

gus

ian408 wrote:

Cattle call does suck.

Ian what is 'cattle call'...whats it for ? Do US companys always photograph employees ?

Shay Stephens

gus wrote:

what is 'cattle call'...whats it for ? Do US companys always photograph employees ?

Cattle call.
Imagine the scene of a large herd of cattle being funneled through gates to their "destination", being burgers, branding, innoculations, portraits, etc. One goes in, flash, next, repeat till the limbs and brain feel numb.


I also found this:
cattle calln. Informal An audition in which a large number of often inexperienced actors or performers try out.



Some companies do this thing, but not all. I really think it is just a throw back to "school days" when the old year book photos were taken. "Gee wouldn't that be fun for my company".

ian408

Shay Stephens wrote:

Some companies do this thing, but not all. I really think it is just a throw back to "school days" when the old year book photos were taken. "Gee wouldn't that be fun for my company".

Gus, it's like this "Get a moooove on". Maybe 1 or 2 shots for each couple
then it's on to the next. The best way is to line 'em on on the right and move
'em out on the left

Andy

Shay Stephens wrote:

Cattle call.
Imagine the scene of a large herd of cattle being funneled through gates to their "destination", being burgers, branding, innoculations, portraits, etc. One goes in, flash, next, repeat till the limbs and brain feel numb.


I also found this:
cattle calln. Informal An audition in which a large number of often inexperienced actors or performers try out.



Some companies do this thing, but not all. I really think it is just a throw back to "school days" when the old year book photos were taken. "Gee wouldn't that be fun for my company".

Gus, do these help?

Sam

gus wrote:

This is clearly an american thing. Companys want peoples photos each year ? Honestly can someone tell me what this is about ?

Gus,

This custom has its roots with our government agencies, and has carried over to some commercial companies. Our government employees show up for work so infrequently that managers need a way to identify who actually belongs there. It also works the other way as well. Should an agency have an employee who regularly shows up for work, they need to be able to identify when their manager makes a rare appearance.

Sam

Andy

gus wrote:

This is clearly an american thing. Companys want peoples photos each year ? Honestly can someone tell me what this is about ?

The people want the photos.

Mom and Dad, 1973

Harryb

Sam wrote:

Gus,

This custom has its roots with our government agencies, and has carried over to some commercial companies. Our government employees show up for work so infrequently that managers need a way to identify who actually belongs there. It also works the other way as well. Should an agency have an employee who regularly shows up for work, they need to be able to identify when their manager makes a rare appearance.

Sam

Sigh, its always the Canon users.

Actually studies show that federal employees have less absenteeism than private sector workers. Feds get paid for any unused annual leave when they retire. Mgmt. had to put a rule in that a Fed. employee could not carry more than 240 hours of annual leave over to the next year to limit the size of the pay-outs upon retirement. At the end of the year there is always a rush by fed. employees to use up their excess leave so they don't lose it. They actually have to be virtually forced to use their leave time.

Another fallacy about federal workers shot down. :ivar

Scott_Quier

Harryb wrote:

Sigh, its always the Canon users.

Actually studies show that federal employees have less absenteeism than private sector workers. Feds get paid for any unused annual leave when they retire. Mgmt. had to put a rule in that a Fed. employee could not carry more than 240 hours of annual leave over to the next year to limit the size of the pay-outs upon retirement. At the end of the year there is always a rush by fed. employees to use up their excess leave so they don't lose it. They actually have to be virtually forced to use their leave time.

Another fallacy about federal workers shot down. :ivar

I'm a contractor working in a Gov't site and I was military for more than 10 years. Everything Harry just said is absolutely true (as if he needed me to help his credibility). On of the people I work with agonizes over when he is going to find the time to burn his vacation time. He has even been known to be in the office for short periods of time while he is supposed to be on leave.

Finally, just to put another bullet to another myth about government service (GS) workers - I believe there are more 350 GS people working at the activity I service. I think I can count on one hand the number of people from whom I would not buy a used car. As a group, I have never dealt with a more professional group of people who actually know their job and take pride in the work they do and the service they provide. And, no, neither my boss nor my client reads these posts!