buying new camera. 400d or 20d?

lifesdisciple

I have a digital rebel. not the xt. i've had a few years now and want to upgrade. not happy with it lately. is the 400d a good upgrade? or should i go with a 20d? cant afford a 30d right now and my dream of owning a 1ds mark II is out of the question. I was very happy with the rebel and shoot mostly nature, ie landscapes and wildlife. Do you think the 400d would be a good choice? please help. any advice would be appreciated. dont want to make the wrong choice. thanks. mike

gus

Def the 20D if you can afford it...no questions in my book about it at all. If for nothing else but the rear wheel for iso adjustment on the run.

Maybe one day canon will hear our crys for the iso setting to be inside the view finder...but untill then that wheel is fantastic.

ziggy53

A 30D is $1040USD at B&H, after rebate.
A 20D is $950.
A dRebel XTi/400D is $740.

(These are all latest prices for camera alone.)

If you can swing the 20D, I would suggest that the 30D is really worth the slight extra for spot metering if nothing else.

The dRebel XT/350D is still a viable option as an upgrade from the original dRebel/300D and is available for $540. Compared to the original, the XT is much more responsive, has a somewhat better image processor (E-TTL II on the XT) which is considerably better at managing a compatible flash.

If you sell the old camera, the XT is so inexpensive, you could probably afford some really nice glass as well, which might be a much better long-term investment. (Good lenses hold their value better than bodies, generally speaking.)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&b=8&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&cmpsrch=&cltp=&clsgr=&shs=&ci=6222&ac=&Submit.x=9&Submit.y=8&Submit=Go

ziggy53

lifesdisciple

ziggy53 wrote:

A 30D is $1040USD at B&H, after rebate.
A 20D is $950.
A dRebel XTi/400D is $740.

(These are all latest prices for camera alone.)

If you can swing the 20D, I would suggest that the 30D is really worth the slight extra for spot metering if nothing else.

The dRebel XT/350D is still a viable option as an upgrade from the original dRebel/300D and is available for $540. Compared to the original, the XT is much more responsive, has a somewhat better image processor (E-TTL II on the XT) which is considerably better at managing a compatible flash.

If you sell the old camera, the XT is so inexpensive, you could probably afford some really nice glass as well, which might be a much better long-term investment. (Good lenses hold their value better than bodies, generally speaking.)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&b=8&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&cmpsrch=&cltp=&clsgr=&shs=&ci=6222&ac=&Submit.x=9&Submit.y=8&Submit=Go

ziggy53

what about the 10d?

gus

lifesdisciple wrote:

what about the 10d?

Thats going backwards on all three of those cameras you mentioned.

lifesdisciple

gus wrote:

Thats going backwards on all three of those cameras you mentioned.

ok. thanks. wont do that then. im thinking the 350d or the 400d. cant afford the 20 or 30 right now. i really want a better telephoto lens. but think of doing camera first.

gus

lifesdisciple wrote:

ok. thanks. wont do that then. im thinking the 350d or the 400d. cant afford the 20 or 30 right now. i really want a better telephoto lens. but think of doing camera first.

You are going to get all sorts of opinions but if i was in your shoes then i would be prowling the forums (here..canon...fred miranda) for a near new 20D or 30D. They do exist & they do come up often enough. As i said this is what i would do as this camera is going to be with you a lot longer than a few $ pain will be remembered.

douglas

B&H current code is psnov enter it in search then click on canon and the prices are
xt black body only: $549.95
xti black body only: $709.95
30D black body only: $1119:00 after rebate $1019.00

you can save more on a xti if you dont mind silver body @ $659.95

No specials for 20d currently @ BH $949.95 body only

ivar

gus wrote:

Maybe one day canon will hear our crys for the iso setting to be inside the view finder...

You know your new toy has that, right?

gus

ivar wrote:

You know your new toy has that, right?

Serious ?? no i didnt know that. Pfft..who reads manual anyway.

tks mate.

Tell you what else...it out shoots my old 20 hands down re noise. Looking at my concert shots i can believe what im getting away with.

ivar

gus wrote:

Serious ?? no i didnt know that. Pfft..who reads manual anyway.

tks mate.

Tell you what else...it out shoots my old 20 hands down re noise. Looking at my concert shots i can believe what im getting away with.

I can't really compare, as I went straight to the 30d, but that's what I've been hearing...

lifesdisciple

Well the xt and xti seem fairly reasonable and I don't mind about the silver color. Since I am on a tight budget, my biggest concern is upgrading at all worth it right now or should I just focus on my photography and picking up a decent telephoto since I am using a very old quantaray 70-300mm f4-5.6. So I guess my last and final question on this subject would be, upgrade the camera, or deal with it and upgrade the lens? My Rebel does have the full hack installed and I have the power grip, remote button etc. Any and all advice is appreciated. And thanks to everyone who has been so helpful. Michael.:D

ziggy53

lifesdisciple wrote:

Well the xt and xti seem fairly reasonable and I don't mind about the silver color. Since I am on a tight budget, my biggest concern is upgrading at all worth it right now or should I just focus on my photography and picking up a decent telephoto since I am using a very old quantaray 70-300mm f4-5.6. So I guess my last and final question on this subject would be, upgrade the camera, or deal with it and upgrade the lens? My Rebel does have the full hack installed and I have the power grip, remote button etc. Any and all advice is appreciated. And thanks to everyone who has been so helpful. Michael.:D

Since you have a hack installed on the 300D, you have the basic functionality of a 10D already. If the ISO 3200 is important, neither the XT nor the XTi will suffice, because they don't have it, and likely never will. (Canon learned that lesson from the 300D and probably won't repeat it.)

A good lens is always a pretty good investment, assuming you need its qualities. If you stay with a compatible body upgrade, the lens should translate nicely to the new body.

The 300D is really not so bad a camera, so I guess I'd be really interested in why you want to upgrade?

ziggy53

lifesdisciple

ziggy53 wrote:

Since you have a hack installed on the 300D, you have the basic functionality of a 10D already. If the ISO 3200 is important, neither the XT nor the XTi will suffice, because they don't have it, and likely never will. (Canon learned that lesson from the 300D and probably won't repeat it.)

The 300D is really not so bad a camera, so I guess I'd be really interested in why you want to upgrade?

ziggy53

I don't think I ever used the 3200 ISO, so no, that's not really important. I thought about an upgrade because I seem to be having a bit of trouble with the metering lately. Not sure if it's the camera or the person behind it. The other reason is because my father is considering an upgrade from film to digital and not sure if he should. For more on this or advice to help click here. http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=47671
So if he did decide to go digital I was going to give him mine and buy a new one. Other than that the camera has always been good to me no matter who told me that I needed something more. I personally would much rather spend the money on a new lens. The only other concern was the 6.3mp. Never a problem before but thinking about selling large enlargements and trying to get some hung in local shops and thought the higher mp of the xt or xti would be better.

ziggy53

lifesdisciple wrote:

I don't think I ever used the 3200 ISO, so no, that's not really important. I thought about an upgrade because I seem to be having a bit of trouble with the metering lately. Not sure if it's the camera or the person behind it. ...

For metering issues, images examples and EXIF would help to determine whether a different camera would help or not.

lifesdisciple wrote:

... The other reason is because my father is considering an upgrade from film to digital and not sure if he should. ...

I saw that and responded in that thread.

lifesdisciple wrote:

... I personally would much rather spend the money on a new lens. The only other concern was the 6.3mp. Never a problem before but thinking about selling large enlargements and trying to get some hung in local shops and thought the higher mp of the xt or xti would be better.

For most subjects, 6MP is enough for an 11" x 14" or so. The lens makes a tremendous difference, more so than the camera body.

It wasn't that many years ago that 6 MP was beyond most peoples ability to buy. In 2000, the best pro digital camera you could get was the Kodak DCS 660, and at $9000, it was just more than most could afford. The Nikon D1 was also available, but $5000 for less than 3 MP would be hard to understand today.

Some of the best lenses of that time are still viable today.

ziggy53

lifesdisciple

ziggy53 wrote:

For metering issues, images examples and EXIF would help to determine whether a different camera would help or not.

I have pics on my smugmug page, but they are all post-edited so they have been fixed. I think a lot of that is me, even though I don't want to admit. I frequently forget to check my settings or spot meter where I want to meter.

ziggy53 wrote:

I saw that and responded in that thread.

Saw that as well and thank you.

ziggy53 wrote:

For most subjects, 6MP is enough for an 11" x 14" or so. The lens makes a tremendous difference, more so than the camera body.

It wasn't that many years ago that 6 MP was beyond most peoples ability to buy. In 2000, the best pro digital camera you could get was the Kodak DCS 660, and at $9000, it was just more than most could afford. The Nikon D1 was also available, but $5000 for less than 3 MP would be hard to understand today.

Some of the best lenses of that time are still viable today.

ziggy53

And I hear you there. I spent 900 bucks on my Rebel when it was first released and 6mp was the highest at that time for that price range. Like I said, the camera has been good to me. I think you answered my question and a new lens is the way to go. Now I just need to figure out what lens to get. I had a Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0 L series lens but it wasn't enough so I sold it. I like the 70-200mm f/2.8 but not sure if that will be enough. I like wildlife and birds and such and would love more reach. Maybe like a 100-300mm f/2.8 might be what I need. My primary lens is the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX and I absolutely love this lens. Any ideas on a large zoom with a fixed 2.8 with out a huge price tag?

ziggy53

lifesdisciple wrote:

... Any ideas on a large zoom with a fixed 2.8 with out a huge price tag?

For daytime birding and animals, I think 500mm, f4.5 is doable. You could even go with an older Pentax or Nikon manual focus lens and adapter. Not truly cheap, but not horrible either.

Birds in Flight (BIF) is much more difficult, and generally more costly.

Another method, used for years, is a combination of bait/lure and "blind" to get the animals closer to you. Think hunter, without the noise and messy aftermath.

ziggy53

lifesdisciple

ziggy53 wrote:

Another method, used for years, is a combination of bait/lure and "blind" to get the animals closer to you. Think hunter, without the noise and messy aftermath.

ziggy53

Bait huh? Never thought of that. And "blind" I assume that means hiding? So a fixed lens. Would they be restrictive though? As in you having to move instead of just zooming. Don't know? Just asking. Thanks for the bait tips. Just to figure out what bait to use.:D

jimf

One thing to remember when comparing the Canon DSLR models is that there are big differences in batteries. One of the things Canon did in the 300D to 350D transition was halve the battery capacity. That makes the camera lighter and cheaper, but it also makes battery life suck if you run a big lens on it. You will probably want a battery pack if you're using L series lenses, especially stabilized L series lenses.

My personal preference, independent of battery life, would be the 20D for its superior ergonomics. If you shoot much the cramped form factor of the XTi will get kind of old, and it's more of a pain to run in full manual mode with buttons for aperture rather than the wheel. On the other hand I like the XTi's imager better, and there's the issue of price, so there's give-and-take.

mr peas

If you enjoy the controls on your Rebel 300D, then you might like the XT or XTi. But if you want/need 3200 ISO versus 1600 ISO on the Rebel bodies then you might want to get the 20D/30D. If you need more FPS the Rebels for @ 3FPS versus the 20D/30D's 5FPS. Lastly, the XT/XTi is very small. I had to get a battery grip for mine so that it would fit in my hands nicely, I wouldnt otherwise use it without one now.

Heres some review links that may help you decide:

Rebel XTi:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/

Rebel XT:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/

Canon30D:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d/

Canon20D:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/

Also, the 20D can be found on this forum or FredMiranda.com for around 600-800 dollars. The Rebel XT at around 500 dollars. That is if you dont mind a camera with a few miles already on it.

Good luck!