Harry, that amazing orange sunrise sky I saw in Florida (remember that last morning at Bunch Beach?) was around 7000K average, but you really have to watch the red channel. Typically, for safety it would be best to default to around 5000K (e.g. Sunny preset, which is 5200K). That would help you save the red channel both at sunrise and sunset.
Ben, the best way to set a full-saturation point (white dropper) is with EV. The best way to set the shadow level (black dropper) is to set the darkest shadow *with detail* just above your black level in the global RGB channel of the histogram *after* balancing shadows.
An example from this morning at Sepulveda Wildlife Refuge of shooting a white bird against a dark BG.
To retain feather detail, the camera was set to -1.67EV as the bird was 20% of the frame (in-camera... this is a crop).
700mm (500 + 1.4x TC) wide open @ f/5.6:
Ron, when you report the Exposure Compensation, are you using spot metering or matrix metering? ( On a Canon that would be Evaluative Metering or spot metering..)
Matrix (or Evaluative) metering is really the only way to work with moving targets IMO, unless you're a lot better at single-bracket tracking than I am...
BTW, a really good way to work if the light is reasonably steady is to get the exposure off of a correctly-exposed test-shot, then switch to manual and simply shoot, making any minor EV changes required for changes in the light (sun goes behind a cloud) by altering the shutter speed.
(P.S.: I generally only do that manual-mode trick when I know I'm going to be working with moving white targets in front of radically different background levels, e.g. dark foliage to midtone grasses to a bright sky).
Ok i have a question
thing i have noticed is that most brids are shot with Nikon what is reason behind that do thay offer something better for action photos then canon etc ?
If someone new like me is going to buy camera for birds what should he look for
thanks
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
Hi Ron and welcome. Very nice of you to take the time to answer questions here. I have just one at the moment. If you could buy just one piece of equipment beyond good camera / lens for wildlife shots, what would it be?
Awais, there are folks producing superb work shooting both Canon and Nikon. What really makes all the difference when it comes to bird (or any other action, for that matter) is whether the ergonomic design and the thinking pattern that the camera body forces you to work within fits the way you think and work well enough to allow the camera to disappear, so to speak.
You have to be able to make systemic changes very quickly when shooting action, (e.g. EV, WB, aperture, mode, etc.) and many changes must be made while you are tracking the action, with your eye in the viewfinder. If you find that one system just feels 'right' to you and the other doesn't, that will decide the brand. Then, select the model that allows you to do what you want to do, within (or maybe just above) your budget, and allows you room to grow as your technical skills improve. The vast majority of people outgrow their camera body's capabilities before the body wears out, lose money selling it, and get into that vicious cycle we all know so well (same holds true for a lot of other things, BTW).
re: lenses and such, both companies make superb glass and some dogs in every category. Learn how to make informed decisions based on your needs when it comes to glass as well as with the bodies (and tripods, heads, etc.). You may want to read this little dissertation:
Hi Tomas. Just caught your question after I posted my reply to Awais...
I would say that the best single tool other than a good camera body and lens for wildlife work is a solid tripod/head combination and *a gimbal* (e.g. the Wimberley Sidekick), which will allow you to balance the camera/lens so the combination floats weightlessly, and allow you to move through a very wide range of angles/directions freely so tracking is easier. Think of an antiaircraft weapon...
Oh that is precious. I suspected a tripod / head would be your response, but coupled with the answer to Awais about equipment purchases it really hits home. I recently bought a carbon tripod / head combo only to discover the limitations soon thereafter. The pan/tilt head that was included is woefully inadequate for anything but landscapes. I am hoping I can fit a good head to the legs to minimize my error. THANKS for the quick and right on reply!
Then, select the model that allows you to do what you want to do, within (or maybe just above) your budget, and allows you room to grow as your technical skills improve. The vast majority of people outgrow their camera body's capabilities before the body wears out, lose money selling it, and get into that vicious cycle we all know so well (same holds true for a lot of other things, BTW).
.....
Hi Tomas. Just caught your question after I posted my reply to Awais...
I would say that the best single tool other than a good camera body and lens for wildlife work is a solid tripod/head combination and *a gimbal* (e.g. the Wimberley Sidekick), which will allow you to balance the camera/lens so the combination floats weightlessly, and allow you to move through a very wide range of angles/directions freely so tracking is easier. Think of an antiaircraft weapon...
A question about low light shooting
The scenario: a wedding reception, on board flash with appropriate bouncer/diffusers (let's say I have 3 good ones). I normally shoot in AV and use flash for fill but many times due to low/poor lighting shots will blur either as a result of camera shake or subject movement. I've used manual to bump up the shutter speed and of course we get the Kodak flash look. Canon program mode sets it at 1/60. Option #2 for AV is 1/200. I've been throughout the range in manual as well. Any tricks or considerations?
One thing that you should do immediately is experiment with rear-curtain sync. The effect will be motion-blur *behind* the subject. Then, another thing you may consider is not going to a faster shutter speed... use a *slower* shutter speed to allow more of the ambient light into the shot (and increase the blur). Alter the look of the flash-shot by changing the relative level of flash-to-ambient light by altering flash EV. This works really well for reception shots and shots on the dance floor -- the strobe will stop the action and the blur behind the subject(s) will impart a sense of dynamic action to the shot.
Varying the aperture will alter the distance the flash will travel and the gradient of light fall-off behind the subject. Smaller apertures will reduce the distance the flash will travel, but also reduce light fall-off behind the subject. Larger apertures increase the distance the flash travels, but the light falls off rapidly behind the subject.
Experiment at various distances, apertures and ISOs so you understand how it works *before* the wedding, and by all means consider getting a separate flash (and if possible, get it off the camera -- either put it on a bracket to raise it above the lens, or mount it on a lightweight stand, tripod, or even on a monopod, held by an assistant).
Excellent!
Thanks very much Ron. Will experiment like crazy now (yes, before the wedding). Appreciate you taking the time....man you gotta love this forum.
One thing that you should do immediately is experiment with rear-curtain sync. The effect will be motion-blur *behind* the subject. Then, another thing you may consider is not going to a faster shutter speed... use a *slower* shutter speed to allow more of the ambient light into the shot (and increase the blur). Alter the look of the flash-shot by changing the relative level of flash-to-ambient light by altering flash EV. This works really well for reception shots and shots on the dance floor -- the strobe will stop the action and the blur behind the subject(s) will impart a sense of dynamic action to the shot.
Varying the aperture will alter the distance the flash will travel and the gradient of light fall-off behind the subject. Smaller apertures will reduce the distance the flash will travel, but also reduce light fall-off behind the subject. Larger apertures increase the distance the flash travels, but the light falls off rapidly behind the subject.
Experiment at various distances, apertures and ISOs so you understand how it works *before* the wedding, and by all means consider getting a separate flash (and if possible, get it off the camera -- either put it on a bracket to raise it above the lens, or mount it on a lightweight stand, tripod, or even on a monopod, held by an assistant).
Ron
I always wondered what rear curtain synch was and what effect it had on pictures. thank you for a thorough yet simple explanation.
If you ever come to Perth, WA and run courses, let me know I only had 2 simple questions but your responses to those and everyone elses was in such a manner that just about everybody should understand what was going on not just those that already have a greater understanding in photography.
Cheers for taking time out and responding
May I take your picture?
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Dick on ArubaRegistered UsersPosts: 3,484Major grins
edited November 27, 2006
Welcome to Dgrin Ron and thank for being so kind to answer the multitude of questions with much dedication.
I can't thank you enough (and Harry for he show me the way) for the SureShot System which is a "must have" for every photographer and answers many questions.
I'm too far away to "drop in" and enjoy your classes, but with my DVD player and your SSS I don't mis out much on the learning part.
Dick.
"Nothing sharpens sight like envy."
Thomas Fuller.
WB and EV
Ron,
You do these as the first two steps - right? Do you alsways do WB first, then EV - or vice versa. Or does it depend on the shot? Just curious as I want to get my workflow as consistent as possible.
Focus question
When shooting fairly large birds do people use which 1 of the 2 patterns or do you feel focusing may be faster and more accurate by selecting single, center point?
Set-up: Living room in front of an open window with a tree near by, birds about 15 to 20 feet away.
My Settings: Aperature Priority, usually for that lens 6.3, ISO 400, & depending on light, Exposure Compensation +1/3 or +2/3. Auto focus, Evaluative metering using only one square lit up in my view finder.
Questions: How do I use my speedlite? If I use Aperature Priority and have bright sun to obtain a fast shutter speed will the flash become ineffective? Should I purchase a Better Beamer or simular device to direct the flash? How can I determing at what distance this flash will no longer be effective?
Do you have a detailed tutorial or would you recommend a book I might purchase that will give me good detail along with examples?
Generally, WB is adjusted before EV because the WB setting will alter the absolute level based on the relative Red and Blue channel levels, and allow you to make a more accurate EV adjustment... however, as with most other things, there are exceptions to this rule of thumb. If you have blown a channel (one channel is fully saturated), it will skew the results, making it difficult (or impossible) to achieve a correct WB adjustment unless there is a known neutral object within the image that is not fully saturated. In this case what you do is drop the EV temporarily to allow you to set the WB with an artificially-reduced EV, then reset the EV to the correct (or desired) level prior to making the shadow-balancing and contrast adjustments.
Sorry about the delay... it's Monday and several things are going on around here.
Group Dynamic options (Center Area or Closest Subject; Group 1 or Group 2) need to be discussed separately, then I can attempt to answer your question:
First, you have to decide some things related to how you acquire a focus lock, and how you generally want to present the type of shot you are attempting to acquire. Do you generally try to lock on to your subject from the center of the frame, then recompose, or do you prefer to acquire the target in the position intended within the final composition? How erratically is the subject moving? Is the subject within a group of targets, and if so, do you prefer to have the closest subject sharp, gradually defocusing towards the further subjects, or do you want focus to be on a target deeper within the group?
Group 1 arrays a 4-or-5 reticle group together depending on which focusing reticle is the center of the array. This group mode is best used when the target is moving fairly erratically. Group 2 arrays a 3-or-4 reticle group (3 in the center top or bottom region, horizontally; 3 dead center either horizontally or vertically depending on whether or not you hit the center of the thumb selector when in the center group; and four reticles at the edges). Group 2 is best used when the target is moving primarily horizontally, and you switch between horizontal and vertical based on whether or not you have the camera aligned in landscape or portrait orientation.
For most situations, Group 1 is more useful as it tracks better in multiple directions around the primary reticle. You then decide if you are planning on presenting the closest subject as the sharpest target in a group of targets, or not.
Group mode, in general, is best used when trying to acquire a moving subject rapidly in a low-contrast environment, such as the sky or on the water. When trying to acquire and track a low-contrast moving subject against a high-contrast background, you're better off using Single-Area Dynamic. When the target is relatively static and you will not need to track movement, use Single Area AF. If the target will always be the closest subject to the camera, you can use Closest-Subject Priority mode effectively, but I rarely find that mode useful personally unless I'm trying for a snap-acquisition in the sky in strong light. I do tend to place it in that mode when handing my camera to a beginner to take a snapshot with, though...
re: Monitor gamma
Allan, default gamma on a MAC is 1.8, although I know quite a number of pros who set the MAC to either 2.0 or 2.2 when calibrating the monitor. A lot depends on the monitor itself and the video card, as well as the ambient light conditions. Why not do a little experiment?
re: FF or APS-C
If you are primarily shooting wide angle (e.g. architectural interiors or landscapes), the advantage gained by having a significantly wider field of view may offset the quality issues at the edges of the frame on a FF sensor. The APS-C sensor benefits from the fact that the center region of lenses offers higher performance and less aberration than the outer glass (the image circle is larger than the sensor area, so the light which falls on an APS-C sensor is that from the center 2/3 of the lens... this is even more important at the wider apertures than at smaller apertures as more of the glass is used at wider apertures). The APS-C sensor crops the field of view to 2/3 of that seen with the same lens on a FF sensor... this can be an advantage at long focal lengths, as your frame with a given lens shows the field of view of a lens with 1/3 greater focal length. For most situations, the APS-C sensor offers advantages to someone who shoots primarily telephoto work.
re: use of flash for wildlife photography
Hi Richard,
Given a subject outside an open window at 15-20 feet in good light, the flash will allow you to provide fill to shadows and a catchlight in the eye (assuming you carefully balance the amount of fill so it looks reasonably natural). Personally, I generally do not like the look of flash in most nature situations, but in some it can either allow you to get a shot that may be impossible otherwise, or it can allow you some creative options that are otherwise not open to you.
You need to experiment with the flash at various apertures and subject distances to determine how far the light carries and how rapidly it falls off behind the subject at a given aperture and distance. A fresnel such as the Better Beamer will alter this equation by focusing the light from the flash, throwing the light farther for a given aperture.
Thom Hogan has written a very good guide on the use of flash... the principles hold true for both Nikon and Canon users.
Comments
Ben, the best way to set a full-saturation point (white dropper) is with EV. The best way to set the shadow level (black dropper) is to set the darkest shadow *with detail* just above your black level in the global RGB channel of the histogram *after* balancing shadows.
Ron
To retain feather detail, the camera was set to -1.67EV as the bird was 20% of the frame (in-camera... this is a crop).
700mm (500 + 1.4x TC) wide open @ f/5.6:
Ron, when you report the Exposure Compensation, are you using spot metering or matrix metering? ( On a Canon that would be Evaluative Metering or spot metering..)
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
BTW, a really good way to work if the light is reasonably steady is to get the exposure off of a correctly-exposed test-shot, then switch to manual and simply shoot, making any minor EV changes required for changes in the light (sun goes behind a cloud) by altering the shutter speed.
(P.S.: I generally only do that manual-mode trick when I know I'm going to be working with moving white targets in front of radically different background levels, e.g. dark foliage to midtone grasses to a bright sky).
Ron
My LCD is set up to blink when Highlights get blown, and I shoot in RAW and monitor the histogram as I work along.
Thanks for the comments.
Looking forward to meeting you and taking the course in February.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
Any more questions, folks?
Ron
backgrounds.
thing i have noticed is that most brids are shot with Nikon what is reason behind that do thay offer something better for action photos then canon etc ?
If someone new like me is going to buy camera for birds what should he look for
thanks
My Gallery
TomsProPhoto
You have to be able to make systemic changes very quickly when shooting action, (e.g. EV, WB, aperture, mode, etc.) and many changes must be made while you are tracking the action, with your eye in the viewfinder. If you find that one system just feels 'right' to you and the other doesn't, that will decide the brand. Then, select the model that allows you to do what you want to do, within (or maybe just above) your budget, and allows you room to grow as your technical skills improve. The vast majority of people outgrow their camera body's capabilities before the body wears out, lose money selling it, and get into that vicious cycle we all know so well (same holds true for a lot of other things, BTW).
re: lenses and such, both companies make superb glass and some dogs in every category. Learn how to make informed decisions based on your needs when it comes to glass as well as with the bodies (and tripods, heads, etc.). You may want to read this little dissertation:
http://www.digital-images.net/Lenses/lenses.html
Hi Tomas. Just caught your question after I posted my reply to Awais...
I would say that the best single tool other than a good camera body and lens for wildlife work is a solid tripod/head combination and *a gimbal* (e.g. the Wimberley Sidekick), which will allow you to balance the camera/lens so the combination floats weightlessly, and allow you to move through a very wide range of angles/directions freely so tracking is easier. Think of an antiaircraft weapon...
Ron
TomsProPhoto
It is honor to have you with us
Great photos in the link
My Gallery
The scenario: a wedding reception, on board flash with appropriate bouncer/diffusers (let's say I have 3 good ones). I normally shoot in AV and use flash for fill but many times due to low/poor lighting shots will blur either as a result of camera shake or subject movement. I've used manual to bump up the shutter speed and of course we get the Kodak flash look. Canon program mode sets it at 1/60. Option #2 for AV is 1/200. I've been throughout the range in manual as well. Any tricks or considerations?
NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
www.daveswartz.com
Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
Varying the aperture will alter the distance the flash will travel and the gradient of light fall-off behind the subject. Smaller apertures will reduce the distance the flash will travel, but also reduce light fall-off behind the subject. Larger apertures increase the distance the flash travels, but the light falls off rapidly behind the subject.
Experiment at various distances, apertures and ISOs so you understand how it works *before* the wedding, and by all means consider getting a separate flash (and if possible, get it off the camera -- either put it on a bracket to raise it above the lens, or mount it on a lightweight stand, tripod, or even on a monopod, held by an assistant).
Ron
Thanks very much Ron. Will experiment like crazy now (yes, before the wedding). Appreciate you taking the time....man you gotta love this forum.
NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
www.daveswartz.com
Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
shay.
Cheers for taking time out and responding
I can't thank you enough (and Harry for he show me the way) for the SureShot System which is a "must have" for every photographer and answers many questions.
I'm too far away to "drop in" and enjoy your classes, but with my DVD player and your SSS I don't mis out much on the learning part.
Dick.
Thomas Fuller.
SmugMug account.
Website.
Ron,
You do these as the first two steps - right? Do you alsways do WB first, then EV - or vice versa. Or does it depend on the shot? Just curious as I want to get my workflow as consistent as possible.
Allan
nebirds.com
Nashua, NH
www.allanrube.com
https://www.facebook.com/AllanRubeNaturePhotography
When shooting fairly large birds do people use which 1 of the 2 patterns or do you feel focusing may be faster and more accurate by selecting single, center point?
Nashua, NH
www.allanrube.com
https://www.facebook.com/AllanRubeNaturePhotography
Following the sureset dvd on digital darkroom, I am calibrating my monitor to 6500, 120, and black minimum.
I am on a Mac - using an Eizo - should I set gamma to 1.8 or 2.2?
Nashua, NH
www.allanrube.com
https://www.facebook.com/AllanRubeNaturePhotography
Equipment: Canon 30D - Canon 100-400 5.6 L Lens, Bogen tripod, Canon Speedlite 420EX.
Subject: Birds, Squirrels
Set-up: Living room in front of an open window with a tree near by, birds about 15 to 20 feet away.
My Settings: Aperature Priority, usually for that lens 6.3, ISO 400, & depending on light, Exposure Compensation +1/3 or +2/3. Auto focus, Evaluative metering using only one square lit up in my view finder.
Questions: How do I use my speedlite? If I use Aperature Priority and have bright sun to obtain a fast shutter speed will the flash become ineffective? Should I purchase a Better Beamer or simular device to direct the flash? How can I determing at what distance this flash will no longer be effective?
Do you have a detailed tutorial or would you recommend a book I might purchase that will give me good detail along with examples?
Thanks for considering my delima
Richard Clemens lcrs@cove.net Pennsylvania
2.2
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Hello, Allan,
Generally, WB is adjusted before EV because the WB setting will alter the absolute level based on the relative Red and Blue channel levels, and allow you to make a more accurate EV adjustment... however, as with most other things, there are exceptions to this rule of thumb. If you have blown a channel (one channel is fully saturated), it will skew the results, making it difficult (or impossible) to achieve a correct WB adjustment unless there is a known neutral object within the image that is not fully saturated. In this case what you do is drop the EV temporarily to allow you to set the WB with an artificially-reduced EV, then reset the EV to the correct (or desired) level prior to making the shadow-balancing and contrast adjustments.
Ron
Hi again, Allan...
Sorry about the delay... it's Monday and several things are going on around here.
Group Dynamic options (Center Area or Closest Subject; Group 1 or Group 2) need to be discussed separately, then I can attempt to answer your question:
First, you have to decide some things related to how you acquire a focus lock, and how you generally want to present the type of shot you are attempting to acquire. Do you generally try to lock on to your subject from the center of the frame, then recompose, or do you prefer to acquire the target in the position intended within the final composition? How erratically is the subject moving? Is the subject within a group of targets, and if so, do you prefer to have the closest subject sharp, gradually defocusing towards the further subjects, or do you want focus to be on a target deeper within the group?
Group 1 arrays a 4-or-5 reticle group together depending on which focusing reticle is the center of the array. This group mode is best used when the target is moving fairly erratically. Group 2 arrays a 3-or-4 reticle group (3 in the center top or bottom region, horizontally; 3 dead center either horizontally or vertically depending on whether or not you hit the center of the thumb selector when in the center group; and four reticles at the edges). Group 2 is best used when the target is moving primarily horizontally, and you switch between horizontal and vertical based on whether or not you have the camera aligned in landscape or portrait orientation.
For most situations, Group 1 is more useful as it tracks better in multiple directions around the primary reticle. You then decide if you are planning on presenting the closest subject as the sharpest target in a group of targets, or not.
Group mode, in general, is best used when trying to acquire a moving subject rapidly in a low-contrast environment, such as the sky or on the water. When trying to acquire and track a low-contrast moving subject against a high-contrast background, you're better off using Single-Area Dynamic. When the target is relatively static and you will not need to track movement, use Single Area AF. If the target will always be the closest subject to the camera, you can use Closest-Subject Priority mode effectively, but I rarely find that mode useful personally unless I'm trying for a snap-acquisition in the sky in strong light. I do tend to place it in that mode when handing my camera to a beginner to take a snapshot with, though...
Ron
Allan, default gamma on a MAC is 1.8, although I know quite a number of pros who set the MAC to either 2.0 or 2.2 when calibrating the monitor. A lot depends on the monitor itself and the video card, as well as the ambient light conditions. Why not do a little experiment?
Ron
If you are primarily shooting wide angle (e.g. architectural interiors or landscapes), the advantage gained by having a significantly wider field of view may offset the quality issues at the edges of the frame on a FF sensor. The APS-C sensor benefits from the fact that the center region of lenses offers higher performance and less aberration than the outer glass (the image circle is larger than the sensor area, so the light which falls on an APS-C sensor is that from the center 2/3 of the lens... this is even more important at the wider apertures than at smaller apertures as more of the glass is used at wider apertures). The APS-C sensor crops the field of view to 2/3 of that seen with the same lens on a FF sensor... this can be an advantage at long focal lengths, as your frame with a given lens shows the field of view of a lens with 1/3 greater focal length. For most situations, the APS-C sensor offers advantages to someone who shoots primarily telephoto work.
Ron
Hi Richard,
Given a subject outside an open window at 15-20 feet in good light, the flash will allow you to provide fill to shadows and a catchlight in the eye (assuming you carefully balance the amount of fill so it looks reasonably natural). Personally, I generally do not like the look of flash in most nature situations, but in some it can either allow you to get a shot that may be impossible otherwise, or it can allow you some creative options that are otherwise not open to you.
You need to experiment with the flash at various apertures and subject distances to determine how far the light carries and how rapidly it falls off behind the subject at a given aperture and distance. A fresnel such as the Better Beamer will alter this equation by focusing the light from the flash, throwing the light farther for a given aperture.
Thom Hogan has written a very good guide on the use of flash... the principles hold true for both Nikon and Canon users.
Ron