PSP Batch Processing Question

MichaelKirk

Take a shot in the dark here as I know most people are using CS2 (cant afford it). I am using Paint Shop Pro X (just switched to XI)

I am having issues with saving documents using batch process (I'm pretty sure these are issues - correct me if I am wrong).

I will have a new unprocessed file - say file size is 2020k
I will run a simple script in PSPX and save file - file size 2133k now
I will batch process the file using the exact same script and now when the file is saved the file size is 523k. For the life of me I cannot figure out why?

Seems like the majoriety of the files I have been uploading into my SM have been compress or files sizes reduced extremely due to batch processing - pixel size remains the same, just file size is reduced. I would assume that customers that are buying my photos are not getting the original quality photo the deserve:scratch


I am also having issues with Photo Album cropping
I can crop an image in PSPX - save and file size (original 2020k) will be 941k, do the EXACT same crop in Photo Album and saved file will be 760k.

Anyone have any ideas? I assume I have been selling my customers short with the best photograph quality available for their prints:dunno

I am asking, because I am no computer expert
Thanks
Michael

01af

MichaelKirk wrote:

Take a shot in the dark here ...

Too bad you're forcing everybody taking shots into the dark, too ... you should describe your situation fully, or we can't give advice from a distance.

My shot into the dark is---you're handling JPEG files, don't you (as opposed to, say, TIFF files)? From that assumption, my next shot is---the JPEG compression setting used in your batch set-up obviously is pre-set to a different (higher) value than what you're using when doing it manually.

As I don't use PaintShop Pro, I don't know where to find the JPEG compression setting in the batch processing and how to change it. But it must be somewhere ... if the setting is buried inside a File Save command recorded in a macro (aka 'Action') then maybe you'll have to delete that step within the macro and re-record it using a better JPEG compression setting (this is the way you'd do it in Photoshop). Or you throw away the macro altogether and start recording it over. Or, if the File Save command is inside your script rather than in a macro, you must explore the script's code and track down and change the setting there.

-- Olaf

MichaelKirk

Sorry about that...
Correct, shooting JPG

I think you gave me enough to go on already though.
I tried calling Corel, but they what $$ for tech support - I sent them an email - we'll wait and see what they come up with.


Looking into the Batch proceess and saving functions a bit further I think whan you save in PSP thru the batch file - the "save as" functions are not over-ridable so I am assume they automatically compress the images (why would they do a stupid thing like that?)

I tried running a few different scripts thru batch and I an pretty sure as long as I use the "save as" or "save" functions in the script itself, I have control of the file compression.


Another question though - when I do some PP on an uncropped image - should the file then get larger or stay the same? (no layers, just curves/levels adjustments and sharpening)
I would then assume that if I crop an image, the file size will get smaller as the cropping gets tighter.

Sorry for the basic questions, but all this just dawned on me yesterday and it's got me a bit worried - I had always thought my images were being save uncompressed at their highest resolution.

Are all my images that I've uploaded to my SM account worthless for printing? The pixel sizes have not changed as well as 300dpi, just the file sizes have been reduced.

Thanks,
Michael

01af wrote:

Too bad you're forcing everybody taking shots into the dark, too ... you should describe your situation fully, or we can't give advice from a distance.

My shot into the dark is---you're handling JPEG files, don't you (as opposed to, say, TIFF files)? From that assumption, my next shot is---the JPEG compression setting used in your batch set-up obviously is pre-set to a different (higher) value than what you're using when doing it manually.

As I don't use PaintShop Pro, I don't know where to find the JPEG compression setting in the batch processing and how to change it. But it must be somewhere ... if the setting is buried inside a File Save command recorded in a macro (aka 'Action') then maybe you'll have to delete that step within the macro and re-record it using a better JPEG compression setting (this is the way you'd do it in Photoshop). Or you throw away the macro altogether and start recording it over. Or, if the File Save command is inside your script rather than in a macro, you must explore the script's code and track down and change the setting there.

-- Olaf

01af

MichaelKirk wrote:

Another question though - when I do some PP on an uncropped image - should the file then get larger or stay the same (no layers, just curves/levels adjustments and sharpening)?

The size of the image (i. e. the amount of memory it occupies in RAM) remains the same. The size of the file after saving the image to disk also remains the same when an uncompressed file format is used. The file size may change in either direction after post-processing when a compressed file format (like JPEG) is used. All other things being equal, sharper images (i. e. your image after having unsharp-mask applied) tend to save to larger files because the more detail, the less compressable the image is.

MichaelKirk wrote:

I would then assume that if I crop an image, the file size will get smaller as the cropping gets tighter.

That's right. Less data, smaller file.

MichaelKirk wrote:

I had always thought my images were being save uncompressed at their highest resolution.

Using JPEG file format always implies compression. Even at the highest-quality setting, some compression will be applied to the JPEG image at the moment of saving. When reading the image back from the disk file into the computer's memory, the compression will become undone---but the quality loss caused by the compression will not. So when repeatedly saving and reading a JPEG image at always the same compression setting, the file size will not become smaller at each round. But the quality will become lesser at each round. However, at the highest-quality setting (lowest compression), you can safely do at least three or four save-read cycles---often many more; depends on the image content---before any quality loss will become visible. At higher JPEG compression settings, the losses will become visible earlier, of course.

If you plan to re-open a processed image file after having it saved, to continue working on it later, you should use TIFF format for the intermediate file because TIFF format is lossless---of course, it also uses up more disk space. This makes sense even for images that started their life as a JPEG file---you cannot undo the first quality loss but you can avoid further quality losses through repeated JPEG save-read cycles. Save only finished images to JPEG if possible ... or at least keep the number of JPEG save-read cycles low.

MichaelKirk wrote:

Are all my images that I've uploaded to my SM account worthless for printing? The pixel sizes have not changed as well as 300dpi, just the file sizes have been reduced.

Depends on the degree of size reduction, on what exactly you mean by 'printing,' and on what size the images are going to be printed. A 6 MP or 8 MP image at 500 KB most likely is not too useful for large-format printing but may still print perfectly well at small to medium sizes. For commercial use, it definitely is too small.

For perfect results, shoot raw, convert to 16-bit TIFF, do your post-processing as required, and finally save as 8-bit TIFF or as high-quality JPEG according to the client's wishes/requirements. For quick results, shoot JPEG, keep the number of save-read cyles low (max. two or three, to be on the safe side), and save at highest or second-highest JPEG quality level. When after saving a 2 MB JPEG file becomes 500 KB, the quality setting was medium to low.

-- Olaf

JBurt

Never work with the original. Save a copy of the original as a PSPimage. PSPimage is a lossless format. (like PSD in Photoshop) Always work and save in this not on your original.

File -> Save As -> Click on the lower dropdown menu in the SaveAs window. -> Choose PSPimage -> To the right of the menu is a button that says Options -> Click -> This will give you the choice of which PSP version you want to save it as. (A one time thing) -> Click OK -> Decide where you want to save it to -> Click Save

To save to JPG

File -> Save As -> Click on the lower dropdown menu in the SaveAs window -> Choose JPG (not JPG2000) -> To the right of the menu is a button that says Options -> Click -> This will give you the choice of how much compression you want to apply to the image you are going to upload -> Click OK -> Decide where you want to save it to -> Click Save

You now have the original untouched image, a working image you can go to and tweek, and a JPG you can upload to the net.

You can write your own batch file so you can run a large number of images.

Learn to use those options as they will allow you to tailor your images to different types of online use.

I don't use any compression for images I upload to my galleries for sale.

I do compress images I'm using for posts and eBay as they will load faster.

Edit to Add - You should really consider learning to shoot in RAW when possible if you want as much info in the image as possible.

MichaelKirk

A few additional questions
Thanks everyone for your very thourough answers - very much appreciated.

I will eventually get to working with RAW,but right now I will stick with jpeg until I learn a lot more of the basics first.

So you are suggestion that when I shoot jpeg - upload the jpegs into a master original file (which I currently do and I never work on the originals). Right now I make a 2nd copy in jpeg format (lossstyle) - you are saying to make my copies in psp format (when I save in psp format, I loose all my exif date??) to do all my editing which I can see is a good idea. Now do I need so save a 3rd copy of the image as jpeg to upload to my website or can I/should I just save the psp file to jpeg after the adjustments have been made - this way there are only 2 image copies of every photo and not 3. ???

Thanks,
Michael

JBurt wrote:

Never work with the original. Save a copy of the original as a PSPimage. PSPimage is a lossless format. (like PSD in Photoshop) Always work and save in this not on your original.

File -> Save As -> Click on the lower dropdown menu in the SaveAs window. -> Choose PSPimage -> To the right of the menu is a button that says Options -> Click -> This will give you the choice of which PSP version you want to save it as. (A one time thing) -> Click OK -> Decide where you want to save it to -> Click Save

To save to JPG

File -> Save As -> Click on the lower dropdown menu in the SaveAs window -> Choose JPG (not JPG2000) -> To the right of the menu is a button that says Options -> Click -> This will give you the choice of how much compression you want to apply to the image you are going to upload -> Click OK -> Decide where you want to save it to -> Click Save

You now have the original untouched image, a working image you can go to and tweek, and a JPG you can upload to the net.

You can write your own batch file so you can run a large number of images.

Learn to use those options as they will allow you to tailor your images to different types of online use.

I don't use any compression for images I upload to my galleries for sale.

I do compress images I'm using for posts and eBay as they will load faster.

Edit to Add - You should really consider learning to shoot in RAW when possible if you want as much info in the image as possible.

JBurt

MichaelKirk wrote:

Thanks everyone for your very thourough answers - very much appreciated.

So you are suggestion that when I shoot jpeg - upload the jpegs into a master original file (which I currently do and I never work on the originals). Right now I make a 2nd copy in jpeg format (lossstyle) - you are saying to make my copies in psp format (when I save in psp format, I loose all my exif date??) to do all my editing which I can see is a good idea.

No, you don't lose your EXIF data. (unless you click the box not to save it)

Now do I need so save a 3rd copy of the image as jpeg to upload to my website or can I/should I just save the psp file to jpeg after the adjustments have been made - this way there are only 2 image copies of every photo and not 3. ???
Thanks,
Michael

Well... you can, as you could always go back to your original and make another PSP file if necessary.

However.... I save multiple copies of a PSP image as I may use that same image for a number of things. I shoot cars and remove the background in a lot of them. I can then cartoon it (another PSP) sketch it (another) or neon it (and again)... I'm always working on the full image file this way. And... I can go back and tweek the "finished" PSP any time with out having to start over.

So, I end up with at least 4 copies of an image. (and usually more)
The original
The original PSP
The finished PSP
The finished JPG