Digital Downloads - proof delayed?

photogmomma

Okay, I *swear* I saw the answer to this once and the answer was "no", but I thought I'd ask again....

My normal new routine is this:

• Do photoshoot and cull down to best shots
• Color correct/crop
• Upload full sized images
• Turn on ordering for everything by DD
• They purchase, I edit and reupload and release the printing/shipping
• Turn on DD for the gallery since they are most likely to order images for download that they printed
• They get their DD.

But if there *is* a delay on DDs, I'd LOVE that since then they could get what they want and I wouldn't have to have some confusing thing that says "let me know if you decide you want a DD that hasn't been edited so I can edit and you can purchase it, but if you already ordered the DD you want it's edited and I'm trying to make this as confusing as possible." :huh

Anyway, this was about 3x longer than it needed to be. Is there a proof delay on Digital Downloads?

Andy

photogmomma wrote:

Is there a proof delay on Digital Downloads?

:nah Sorry.

http://www.smugmug.com/help/proof-retouch-replace

photogmomma

:cry :cry :cry

Can you put this in as a request? Even if you could turn it on/off for DD in each gallery, that would be HUGE for me and make my process MUCH easier.

(And I *knew* I read it someplace. Read the help section? Why would I want to RTFM? Or rather, RTFH? )

Thanks for your fast reply, Andy!

dogwood

photogmomma wrote:

:cry :cry :cry

Can you put this in as a request? Even if you could turn it on/off for DD in each gallery, that would be HUGE for me and make my process MUCH easier.

(And I *knew* I read it someplace. Read the help section? Why would I want to RTFM? Or rather, RTFH? )

Thanks for your fast reply, Andy!

Another option that I stumbled across when a customer couldn't download a digital download due to a password problem-- is once you see a customer has ordered a download and paid, you can either send them a retouched version or set them up with a new gallery without right-click/ctrl-click protection.

Just explain the version you're sending is retouched and looks better. In a way, it's just like the proof-delay only they get both the untouched and the retouched versions. You could even set up a digital download FAQ on your site explaining how it works.

One problem with proof delay on downloads is that most people want the download instantly -- kind of like why you might buy a download of an album rather than go to the record store.

Hindsight

Well I for one feel this needs to be changed. I don't want my customers buying commerical licenses and putting my shots into publication without my trademark on the photo. I simply don't have time to trademark every shot, only those that sell. How difficult would this be to implement?

photogmomma

dogwood wrote:

Another option that I stumbled across when a customer couldn't download a digital download due to a password problem-- is once you see a customer has ordered a download and paid, you can either send them a retouched version or set them up with a new gallery without right-click/ctrl-click protection.

Just explain the version you're sending is retouched and looks better. In a way, it's just like the proof-delay only they get both the untouched and the retouched versions. You could even set up a digital download FAQ on your site explaining how it works.

One problem with proof delay on downloads is that most people want the download instantly -- kind of like why you might buy a download of an album rather than go to the record store.

That's essentially what I do. I have a preset in Lightroom that exports 1MP images and I send 'em off. But I hate it - to me it looks unprofessional. I understand about the whole instant gratification, but how hard is it to make that a different "proof delay" amount? One for prints, one for downloads - and those that don't want to delay 'em for clients don't have to!

Just a thought! (Major annoyance for me, though.)

lynnesite

Hi, Eric and Andi--
Andy explained it to me as a shopping cart issue, it would force a full redesign. My procedure is like yours, and so digital downloads are prohibited in all my galleries as a result--though I may make "print" galleries for fully prepped stuff that can go that way. I only do the small ones, as the license lingo isn't sufficient for the big ones.

Another thing I tried was to put a notice in the gallery header that if someone ordered DD that I would supply them the prepped version via e-mail.

Dsus

Greetings, I am new here so if I say something dumb please be gentle.

I see Lynnesite's message that proof-delay for digital downloads would mean a full redesign. If that's the case I can understand leaving it alone as there are a number of workarounds.

Still, I wanted to weigh in to say that the proof-delay option definitely seems more suited to digital downloads. I am happy to leave colour-correction for prints to the labs (in the process of evaluating them now) but proof-delay seems to be made for digital.

Like another photographer on this thread said, I would love to offer the option to download and know that I will get the chance to correct an image ahead of time.

I will say more once I have finished setup.

Andy

Dsus wrote: »

Greetings, I am new here so if I say something dumb please be gentle.

I see Lynnesite's message that proof-delay for digital downloads would mean a full redesign. If that's the case I can understand leaving it alone as there are a number of workarounds.

Still, I wanted to weigh in to say that the proof-delay option definitely seems more suited to digital downloads. I am happy to leave colour-correction for prints to the labs (in the process of evaluating them now) but proof-delay seems to be made for digital.

Like another photographer on this thread said, I would love to offer the option to download and know that I will get the chance to correct an image ahead of time.

I will say more once I have finished setup.

Welcome - it's trivial for you to email your buyer and say "Thanks for purchaing! The image you have is a proof, I'm going to (edit, make perfect, etc, etc) and email you a link to a new photo with X days. Thanks for buying!"

lynnesite

A longtime pro friend just said lack of this feature is enough to cause her to change from smuggy by the next show season. She's used a paypal button for a while now but that's a PITA too.

I will never, ever permit an unretouched proof to be "out there" on somebody's hard disk. It is indeed trivial to send a fully retouched copy, until you consider the QUEUE. It means I'd have to drop this order in front of everything else I'm supposed to be doing, because I don't want them spreading the proof around as my unsigned work (I don't use the print mark) I'd just have to HOPE that the purchaser has the sophistication to only use what I personally e-mail to them.

Unacceptable, so that feature will forever be turned off in my galleries. It does indeed cost me sales, people forget about ordering later. People don't read my gallery descriptions as it is, and ask me in e-mail about whether or not I offer DDs all the time. Heck, they don't even notice that I've got packages and they could save some moolah.

mbellot

lynnesite wrote: »

A longtime pro friend just said lack of this feature is enough to cause her to change from smuggy by the next show season.

Yup, and six years after the OP we still don't have it.

Ristyz

OK, here's the dilemma. I am an event shooter. At one event I can shoot thousands and thousands of images, anywhere from 2-20K. Since I shoot based on speculation, I CANNOT make every single image "ready to go" to my standards. (I am high quality, hence Smugmug in the first place) There just isn't enough time in a lifetime. I have a bigger and bigger demand for digital images all the time. Like Lynne I WILL NOT LET AN IMAGE GO OUT 'TIL IT's DONE. I really don't want to leave Smuggy. I love Smugmug. There are a million reasons to stay but there is one that could drive me away to a service that fulfills my need for some sort of digital image delay. Most of my clients are not business people, they are competitors in events. Only half are very computer literate. A lot of them are kids that got the parents to buy the pix for them to put on their facebook pages. None will wait for the "finished" copy of a digital file if they have the proof quality one. And they sure aren't going to take it off their Facebook and other social media once they have treasured comments on it. And it gets shared once there and can't be tracked down and because it's proof quality I instantly revert back to being a mediocre photographer with excellent timing and composition because I cannot do the necessary color and contrast adjustments to an image before it leaves in an instant download.

I also travel a lot to make the images and while I'm standing in an arena shooting I cannot instantly fulfill making a new pretty file for someone who ordered something from the weekend before. So even those who might wait for a little while aren't going to. Without some way, via a CD/DVD option, delayed digital download or even just a self fulfill button that I can fill in a service and price and have what I need for delayed digital imagery or even shoot fees, I'm screwed. Nearly half of my purchases are now via a big ugly paypal button I put in the gallery description. I hate that. I would so much rather give my money to Smugmug for that service than Paypal whom a lot of my clients have major issues with mostly due to not being so computer literate and just skip ordering all together because of it.

The big ol' Smugmug price increase wasn't even a concern of mine (I considered Smuggy dirt cheap, really) except for the fact that it will hit me in January and I have to make a decision to stay or go before then just to not be double charged for having two services. I already have two different Smugmug pro services, the second is with a partner of mine and it's under her name, Amy E. Cody-Riley. I need a hint, Smuggy! Just even a hint that you will be working on my something so that my dilemma is no longer a dilemma so I can stay with the service I love. I really don't want to go but I have to do something!! In this day and age it's getting so hard to actually make money in my very specialized niche photography category. Please tell me you've got something coming to help me continue with Smugmug.

cristyc.smugmug.com

mbellot

Ristyz wrote: »

I need a hint, Smuggy

I'd say six years of doing nothing about this is a fairly large hint. Believing they will change it in the next two months would be wishful thinking of the most optimistic sort.

Pure Energy

Watching someone easily spend two to four hours on one photograph, I too am sort of baffled that we can't have digital downloads sold with a proof delay. I know I shouldn't spend that much time on the majority of photographs... but, I have way too many photos to process them all before uploading. My time is better spent shooting more, posting more and only processing photos that are sold.

Anyways, my votes have been cast but this looks like it's shy of the 1000 votes needed for implementation consideration (i.e. more gallery levels):

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/243258-allow-an-optional-proof-delay-on-digital-downloads

Even if SM implemented a proof delay, I still wouldn't do digital downloads with SM because I can not tailor the usage license to satisfy my needs. That means I'd have to do a a lengthy work-around with a client (to run the sale thru SM)... so, it doesn't really make any sense to do so. Hence, more votes here would be nice:

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/230402-create-a-customizable-use-license-for-pros

But, ultimately... for those of us with ideas of seeing the world (away from our computers) for more then a few days... a seven day proof delay gets in the way of any decent vacation. How about voting for this too:

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/333074-allow-unlimited-proof-delay

And then I'm sure there's something I should be voting on regarding adding printmarks and the sizes of printmarks on digital downloads (something about how some photos are printmarked and others aren't because of how it was uploaded?). Whatever.

So, as you can see... SM has a few things to work on before I'll sell digital copies of my images thru SmugMug but proof delay would be a good first step in the right direction.