After some lighting advice

gus

Ok..i always thought i would never be bitten with this studio bug but it feels like i cant fight it any longer.

Im wishing to organise some simple lighting & was wondering which would be a better idea..2 lights with some diffusers in front of them or 2 lights aimed back into a pair of umbrellas ?

So basically diffused light or reflected light ? Which is a better way to go for a small set up ?

DavidTO

Gus, I'm no expert, and can't answer your questions, but I did want to make sure that you'd seen this.

gus

DavidTO wrote:

Gus, I'm no expert, and can't answer your questions, but I did want to make sure that you'd seen this.

Yeah i had seen that but im not about to buy a transmitter. Just after advice on which is better for simple portrait stuff...diffused or reflective.

Andy

gus wrote:

Yeah i had seen that but im not about to buy a transmitter. Just after advice on which is better for simple portrait stuff...diffused or reflective.

http://www.moonriverphotography.com/gallery/730399/1/33796523/Large

for easy portable, I use a 580ex and 2 420exs. No transmitters.

JimW

Gus, it kind of depends on your personal taste and on who and what you're shooting; sultry boudoir shots, high school seniors, glamour portrait or a head shot of the Pope? Can you describe the goal?

People use both commonly for the same shots. However, if you're gonna have only two lights, you may want to put one on the subject and one on the background, in which case you might only diffuse the main light.

Having said all that, my vote for the single most versatile one-main-light setup would be a medium size softbox. If that's too much to spend, those shoot through panels are cheap and very effective.

gus

Andy wrote:

I use a 580ex and 2 420exs. No transmitters.

How do you control the 2x 420's without a transmitter ?

DavidTO

gus wrote:

How do you control the 2x 420's without a transmitter ?

The flashes have infrared built in, the 580 acts as master, the 420 as slaves.

gus

JimW wrote:

Gus, it kind of depends on your personal taste and on who and what you're shooting; sultry boudoir shots, high school seniors, glamour portrait or a head shot of the Pope? Can you describe the goal?

People use both commonly for the same shots. However, if you're gonna have only two lights, you may want to put one on the subject and one on the background, in which case you might only diffuse the main light.

Having said all that, my vote for the single most versatile one-main-light setup would be a medium size softbox. If that's too much to spend, those shoot through panels are cheap and very effective.

Thanks jim..thats probably my problem as i know so little about it that im not sure what result i want. You advice taken on board..thanks.

gus

DavidTO wrote:

The flashes have infrared built in, the 580 acts as master, the 420 as slaves.

Yeah i know that...thus he is using a transmitter. I dont have a 580 thus i don't have a transmitter.

DavidTO

gus wrote:

Yeah i know that...thus he is using a transmitter. I dont have a 580 thus i don't have a transmitter.

Andy and I both meant no separate transimitter other than what's in the flash.

gus

DavidTO wrote:

Andy and I both meant no separate transimitter other than what's in the flash.

Yeah i know that ..but its still a transmitter regardless & i said im not buying a transmitter.

I wish to do this with lights not a flash/s

Sam

Gus,

Are you sure your getting all the hugs you need down there? You’re sounding a little on the gruff side.

Now as to lights. There are a lot of people here, ok, most of the people here, who know a lot more about lighting then I do, but that never stopped be before.

I have been looking into learning more about lighting myself. This what I have so far: Hot lights………generally lower in light out put, generate a lot of heat, and good for product, or other stationary items. Not good for people. Strobes……… more light out put, short duration to freeze movement, steeper learning curve, and more expensive. The only way to shoot people.

Do not buy cheap lighting. It will over the long run cost you a lot more.

I rented 2 tungsten hot lights with soft boxes, and light stands last weekend. The cost of this equipment is about $1000.00. While this might seem a little high to many of us thumbing through the B&H catalog, I could see why it would be well worth it to buy this quality of equipment. I did learn from this that I will not buy bargain basement lighting. I will wait as long as I need to get the right stuff the first time. I do however have the ability to rent anytime I need to.

The other thing you may want to consider is buying one piece at a time. Choose a good quality name brand of equipment, and you will be able to add on at any time in the future.

Sam

gus

Sam wrote:

Gus,

Are you sure your getting all the hugs you need down there? You’re sounding a little on the gruff side.

I had to get a msg across that i am not using/buying a transmitter..no point in leaving it unexplained (even if it was several times). The world knows (including myself) that the 580 can act as a transmitter thus controlling a 430.

Andy

gus wrote:

How do you control the 2x 420's without a transmitter ?

the 580ex talks to them, it's secret canon-code. works great. trust me on this. no extra gear required

Andy

gus wrote:

I had to get a msg across that i am not using/buying a transmitter..no point in leaving it unexplained (even if it was several times). The world knows (including myself) that the 580 can act as a transmitter thus controlling a 430.

Gus, another nice thing about the flash vs. bigger strobes, or hotlights, is that they are small. And you can use them singly, also. And they can be had fairly cheaply, too

Enjoy the quest. I suspect this'll be a topic of conversation amongst yourselves over the kava bowl tonight, eh?

gus

Andy wrote:

Gus, another nice thing about the flash vs. bigger strobes, or hotlights, is that they are small. And you can use them singly, also. And they can be had fairly cheaply, too

Enjoy the quest. I suspect this'll be a topic of conversation amongst yourselves over the kava bowl tonight, eh?

This mob is just down the road from me & has a list of second hand stuff here that im having difficulty deciphering. Might go for a butchers.

Shay Stephens

Light is light. It comes in two flavors, soft and hard. You can mix them in any combination you want also. How you achieve soft lighting is personal preference and ingenuity. The secret to soft lighting is making the source larger than subject. The more surface area emitting light and the closer it is, the softer the light will appear, because the shadow transitions will be more spread out and less defined.

So a flash head 10 inches from the subject will have softer shadow transitions than the same flash 10 feet away. You can bounce the light against a surface, and that surface then becomes the emitter. The larger it is the softer the light. And that surface can be a wall, a white sheet, a softbox, an umbrella, a white rhino, or big pile of snow.

If you don't want to use wireless triggering of flash, then use a sync cable. If you don't want to use flash, then use hot lights, light bulbs, fluorescent, candles, sunlight, or synchrotron radiation, although that last one is not very portable

The whole point here is that you don't need anything fancy or expensive to get the job done and learn all you need to learn. The important thing is to just start with what you have on hand. You will quickly learn where the weak points are in your setup. Once identified, you are in a far better position to be able to match technology to need and get the results you are looking for

Shay Stephens

gus wrote:

Yeah i had seen that but im not about to buy a transmitter. Just after advice on which is better for simple portrait stuff...diffused or reflective.

There is little difference between reflected light and diffused light. If the surface area of the emmiter is the same size, you will get the same results. Only difference might be in the brightness of the light depending on how far the light has to travel to the subject.

And the link provided show a simple flash setup using just a sync cable. It's not till later that a radio transmitter is introduced that does the same thing as the sync cable.

gus

Read & digested shay

pathfinder

Gus,

I hesitate to mention this, but I think you might find it useful in more than one way.

You said you do not want to purchase a transmitter - how about an infrared focusing aid for shooting in the dark, that will also trigger a remote 430ex?

I am talking about the Canon ST-E2.

It will trigger a 430ex,a 420ex, a 550ex, or a 580ex for getting the light off the camera. Once the strobe is off the camera, it can shoot through a Reflectasol diffusion screen ( or a sheet of white bedsheet ) and become a very large diffuse light source. Or not!

The ST-E2 is cheaper than a 430ex or a 580ex, and will help focusing in the dark without flash - think concert shooting.

Here is a great video that is cheap, and does a great job of explaining lighting and using EOS Flashes. The take home story of this video is to get the flash off the camera and retain ETTL, and use reflectors and diffusion panels to control the light.

Or you can use Canon off shoe ETTL cord and avoid a transmitter, but then you have to futts with the cord all the time. Once you experience the freedom of cordless shooting, you will not want to go back. Trust me on this.

The B&W shots of my grandkids you liked were shot with a strobe into an umbrella from my right and a Reflectasol 42 inch silver reflector on my left - the strobe was triggered by an ST-E2, but could have just a easily been optically triggered.

Drink your kava slowly, ..... and think about what I have suggested, ...... before trashing it out outright, ok??

pathfinder

But if you are set on NOT using flash, how about building a 3 by 4 foot array of Daylight flourescent bulbs ( six or eight 25w or 60 w spiral flourescent bulbs ) on an adjustable stand and cover the front of the bulbs about 6 inches in front, with a sheet of fibreglass cloth as a diffusion panel, and use this as a source of soft diffuse window light??

I built just exactly one of these years ago ( only I used daylight balanced tungsten bulbs back then )

I have since replaced the tungsten bulbs with daylight balanced flourescent tubes and it works just fine. I think my totol cost was about $50 or less.

Do you happen to know a good electrician who could help you with the wiring??:D

gus

pathfinder wrote:

Gus,

I hesitate to mention this, but I think you might find it useful in more than one way.

You said you do not want to purchase a transmitter - how about an infrared focusing aid for shooting in the dark, that will also trigger a remote 430ex?

I am talking about the Canon ST-E2.

It will trigger a 430ex,a 420ex, a 550ex, or a 580ex for getting the light off the camera. Once the strobe is off the camera, it can shoot through a Reflectasol diffusion screen ( or a sheet of white bedsheet ) and become a very large diffuse light source. Or not!

The ST-E2 is cheaper than a 430ex or a 580ex, and will help focusing in the dark without flash - think concert shooting.

Here is a great video that is cheap, and does a great job of explaining lighting and using EOS Flashes. The take home story of this video is to get the flash off the camera and retain ETTL, and use reflectors and diffusion panels to control the light.

Or you can use Canon off shoe ETTL cord and avoid a transmitter, but then you have to futts with the cord all the time. Once you experience the freedom of cordless shooting, you will not want to go back. Trust me on this.

The B&W shots of my grandkids you liked were shot with a strobe into an umbrella from my right and a Reflectasol 42 inch silver reflector on my left - the strobe was triggered by an ST-E2, but could have just a easily been optically triggered.

Drink your kava slowly, ..... and think about what I have suggested, ...... before trashing it out outright, ok??

Mate i have read a LOT about those things. There are several variants of the same item. They are seriously hit & miss items. What the hell..it aint a lot of money to loose.

gus

pathfinder wrote:

But if you are set on NOT using flash, how about building a 3 by 4 foot array of Daylight flourescent bulbs ( six or eight 25w or 60 w spiral flourescent bulbs ) on an adjustable stand and cover the front of the bulbs about 6 inches in front, with a sheet of fibreglass cloth as a diffusion panel, and use this as a source of soft diffuse window light??

I built just exactly one of these years ago ( only I used daylight balanced tungsten bulbs back then )

I have since replaced the tungsten bulbs with daylight balanced flourescent tubes and it works just fine. I think my totol cost was about $50 or less.

Do you happen to know a good electrician who could help you with the wiring??:D

I have thrrown out more of those lights than ive had hot dinners. Ive been at the light warehouse all morning. I might look at hiring gear from here until i work out what i need.

DavidTO

pathfinder wrote:

I built just exactly one of these years ago

Let's see 'em!

Better yet, write a tute!

pathfinder

I am going to Florida for some decent weather.

I have to write a speech about riding the Santa Fe trail for a local group, and I have to write up a chapter for rutt sometime in the next few months, as well as try to earn a living and celebrate Christmas etc etc etc.

If I can find a free afternoon or two, I can do that, but it really is pretty simple except for the adjustable stand - to show the details in that might take several photos and explanations. I haven't even done Sunny 16 yet, Dave, but it still is in my hopper.

I'll have to break out my hobbyist construction camera - a Coolpix 995.

And now folks, we return you to Gus's thread about studio lighting.

gus

Ok..i just ordered this..somehow i think its going to be a paper weight but i'll review it once i get it.

chicodawg

Andy wrote:

http://www.moonriverphotography.com/gallery/730399/1/33796523/Large

for easy portable, I use a 580ex and 2 420exs. No transmitters.

Andy, I hope you're still following this thread. I've also been researching lighting systems for portable and small studio work. I LOVE that Lightspere! I plan to order both (clear and cloud) after viewing all the info pages and videos.

My question(s):
I already have the 580ex on my 20D. Do you mount the additional flashes on your umbrella stands?

I want to do portraits (one person and multiple persons/family portraits). I also hope to eventually get into school/class portraits. Would your flash combination be an effective solution?

Thank you for sharing your expertise and time!
Mike
Wesley Chapel Photography
Florida

Manfr3d

gus wrote:

Ok..i always thought i would never be bitten with this studio bug but it feels like i cant fight it any longer.

Im wishing to organise some simple lighting & was wondering which would be a better idea..2 lights with some diffusers in front of them or 2 lights aimed back into a pair of umbrellas ?

So basically diffused light or reflected light ? Which is a better way to go for a small set up ?

Hi gus, I'd recommend reading a few articles on the strobist website:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

its really an eye opener on how simple and effective you
can be with a few strobes (even portable ones). There
are also alot of great lighting videos on sportsshoter.com here:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/special_feature/index.html

Just browse their list, "Portrait Lighting at the Sports
Shooter Academy 2" for example is just one example.
They explain alot on how different diffusors work and
what you want to do to acieve certain effects.

Especialy the reading helps alot when decideing for a
setup. Good luck!

Sam

gus wrote:

Ok..i just ordered this..somehow i think its going to be a paper weight but i'll review it once i get it.

Gus,

Please ensure you give us a report on this .

Thanks,

Sam

gus

Sam wrote:

Gus,

Please ensure you give us a report on this .

Thanks,

Sam

No worries sam. I do love playing around with electronic stuff. Lots of people on the net hate them & lots use them in their studios so its a bit hit & miss. The faraday's cage idea appears to work on it with the canon flashes & thats my old trade so i will enjoy fooling with it.

It costs less than a few magazines.

gus

Manfr3d wrote:

Hi gus, I'd recommend reading a few articles on the strobist website:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

its really an eye opener on how simple and effective you
can be with a few strobes (even portable ones). There
are also alot of great lighting videos on sportsshoter.com here:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/special_feature/index.html

Just browse their list, "Portrait Lighting at the Sports
Shooter Academy 2" for example is just one example.
They explain alot on how different diffusors work and
what you want to do to acieve certain effects.

Especialy the reading helps alot when decideing for a
setup. Good luck!

Tks manfr3d...i have read a lot from the first link & will check out the 2nd.