Months later... I'm loving the Canon 400D and the Tamron f/2.8 28-75mm lens... However I also picked up the f/2.8 17-50mm just before I hit Tokyo and have decided that it's a much more versatile starter lens - I really appreciate and use the wider angles - so if I were to buy again, I'd leave out the 28-75 till I really needed it, and even then, I might opt for something more powerful on the zoom end...
And a few gripes: It's a LOT heavier than my old film SLR, the Canon 500N...
...
The Canon 400D/XTi body is only 1.2 lbs, including battery, which is pretty light, so you are likely feeling the extra heft of the lenses, which are probably much better than you had before.
And the next gripe pertains to pretty much all DSLRs in existance - although I've heard rumours that Olympus has started offering this now: Using the LCD as a viewfinder... I know it's not exactly seen as a 'pro' feature by many, but coming from compacts into the world of DSLR, you definitly notice how useful the LCD as a viewfinder can be when you no longer have it! It's a great way to disarm your subject and capture them in a more natural state... I really miss it...
The Olympus dSLRs E10 and E20 had this feature some time ago. The lenses were not removable or interchangeable on these cameras, but they were still dSLRs with live preview.
The Olympus E-330 was the first, general purpose, interchangeable lens, dSLR with a live preview. Later the Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 and Leica Digilux 3 were developed along similar lines.
The Canon 1D MKIII is the first "professional body", interchangeable lens, dSLR to offer live preview. It remains to be seen whether it's a real feature or a marketing gimmick.
I've also noticed that the lenses don't frame very well on the Canon 400D... I like to do as little post processing as possible, but I've found that the images aren't framing as I planned - so what I think is the best composition, ends up a little off, requiring a crop... I don't know how comon this problem is... At least it's adding info to my composition rather than not including it... But still... Any thoughts?
I presume you mean that you don't see the very outside border of the image frame through the optical viewfinder. The Canon 400D/XTi has a very respectable 95% coverage in the viewfinder. This does mean that 5% is outside your view, and, if you wear eyeglasses, it's hard to get your eye close enough to the viewfinder to see the periphery as well.
After considerable time and practice, you can learn to "trust" the view and frame very tightly in the viewfinder. Most of the time, I appreciate the extra pixels of a modern dSLR for the very purpose of cropping, and I don't find that a major problem since I post-process just about everything.
BTW, a Canon 30D has the same 95% coverage, the 5D has 96% coverage, and the 1D series have about 100% coverage, so you really have to pay to get that feature. (Other manufacturers are very similar in this feature and 100% coverage is a defining mark of a "pro" camera.)
The viewfinder crop factor is nothing new and is common to just about all prism finders. Canon's site shows the xxxD and xxD cameras at 95% coverage, the xD at 100%. In the film end the Rebels are worse at 90%. Same thing in Nikon's lineup: pro bodies are 100% and prosumer are 95%. Heck, even my Mamiya 645Pro prism finder is 96%. So it's just a matter of learning what your body's specs are and adjusting for them. I also seem to recall my old Minolta Maxxum and Oly OM-2 bodies had the same thing (some research shows Minolta at 97% & Oly at 92%).
At first I missed the LCD finder when switching from my Coolpix to the 20D. Now I don't; I can be fairly subtle with the camera--even with a grip & 24-70 beast on it. However, there are some DSLRs on the market with live LCD view--Olympus was the first to pull this off and Canon's 1D Mark III will have it in a limited form (manual focus only & a couple of other limitations). So this feature will start to spread kind of like a virus or the anti-dust "feature."
edit: ok, so ziggy got some more thorough info whil I was composing...
For those who wish to compare viewfinder coverage of their film based cameras vs the dSLRs, remember that back in film days you would send your neagtives to the printer, who would use a "mask" to print from, so you rarely ever saw 100% of the megative image. Often the printer mask would approximate the viewfinder coverage and that is why "what you saw (in the viewfinder) is what you got (in the print).
With digital imaging, it's possible to print what you capture.
The Olympus is a fine little camera that meets your size, weight and battery life requirements but not good at high ISO. It would need some software help at speeds above 400. Olympus glass is superb, even the kit lenses and there's no such thing as plastic mounts ... they're all metal. Oly reliability is also excellent.
Canon is the hands down winner for ISO performance.
The 14-42 and new version 40-150 (the one with 5.6 at the tele) which are the kit lenses for the E400, E410 and E510 has plastic mounts. Progression.
Well, that's dissapointing but it looks like the 400, 410 and 510 are aimed at possibly a less discriminating crowd. I've got the old 14-45 and the old 40-150 F3,5-4.5 that came with the 500 but my favorite is the 14-54 f2.8 weather sealed. I use it on the E1 most of the time and, believe it or not I like the E1 better than the 500 in spite of smaller resolution.
I just finished shooting a 5 day conference with the E1 and the 50-200 f2.8. Shot an average of 300 pics per day for the 5 days and what a pleasure to use is that E1.
The viewfinder crop factor is nothing new and is common to just about all prism finders. Canon's site shows the xxxD and xxD cameras at 95% coverage, the xD at 100%. In the film end the Rebels are worse at 90%. Same thing in Nikon's lineup: pro bodies are 100% and prosumer are 95%. Heck, even my Mamiya 645Pro prism finder is 96%. So it's just a matter of learning what your body's specs are and adjusting for them. I also seem to recall my old Minolta Maxxum and Oly OM-2 bodies had the same thing (some research shows Minolta at 97% & Oly at 92%).
Thanks for the insight! That explains it... I was beginning to worry... Now I'm just annoyed! Heheheh! Oh well... Maybe one day they'll look to achieve viewfinder 'perfection' on all DLSR bodies - how hard can it be? Seriously?
And then somewhat related... The 'live LCD view' would surely have 100% coverage as it's based on what the sensor pics up... I guess?
So this feature will start to spread kind of like a virus or the anti-dust "feature."
Hopefully it does... There is no harm in harnessing good ideas - and 'live LCD view' is definitely one of them even if some of you aren't losing any sleep over the lack of it most DSLRs out today... On an DSLR it'd just be an 'added extra', if you don't want to use it... Don't... To me, there's no doubt that it's an additional way in which to be creative with your shooting... And I definitely miss it...
The 14-42 and new version 40-150 (the one with 5.6 at the tele) which are the kit lenses for the E400, E410 and E510 has plastic mounts. Progression.
Mate i read your post & immediately thought of this quote from 'a few good men' ..just replace cubans with canon users.
Col. Jessop :
"I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Cubans who are trained to kill me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, and make me nervous "
"I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 canon users who are trained to kill me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, and make me nervous "
Ha! That's just because you all can't handle the truth.
Just an update for those that care / are curious... I have no experience with the Olympus e400, nor the Nikon 40D, but I'm very happy with my Canon 400D coupled with my 2.8 Tamron lenses...
I spent 3 months in Tokyo earlier this year which gave me the inspiration and opportunity to take approximately 50 photos per day (on average)... I finally got round to selecting a few highlights, so take a look at how the 400D faired in the hands of an amateur: http://encosion.com/
And here are some earlier shots (sans flash) of the excellent Swedish act - Sounds Like Violence - live at the Borderline in London... This relates to the beginning of this thread where I was asking questions about such conditions... These shots aren't perfect in the least, but I think with more experience under these conditions I'd be able to get some amazing shots!
Canon EOS 40D or Nikon D80
I'm a begginner. Lately, i've been surveying for slr cameras that is worth buying even when i go to the next level in future. I'm still stucked between two brands. Nikon or Canon? The EOS 40D or Nikon D80?
I understand that the lenses are the main expense but the other quality wise, is it canon or nikon?
Any suggestions and advice??
I need help!
I'm a begginner. Lately, i've been surveying for slr cameras that is worth buying even when i go to the next level in future. I'm still stucked between two brands. Nikon or Canon? The EOS 40D or Nikon D80?
I understand that the lenses are the main expense but the other quality wise, is it canon or nikon?
Any suggestions and advice??
I need help!
Welcome to the Digital Grin.
The choice is definitely a very personal one. Either brand would potentially serve you well, but one brand or the other is probably a better "fit" according to feature set, accessories, lenses, or even "feel".
Actually it's hard to find a really bad camera from "any" major manufacturer these days. All of the current crop have things to desire.
Take your time, review the differences, actually take the time to hold and handle different cameras, whether in a store or through a camera club or friends. This is a major purchase so worth the effort.
It helps to know how you will use the camera. If you have specific interests it might help to mention them here as that might indicate a preference according to camera features.
The choice is definitely a very personal one. Either brand would potentially serve you well, but one brand or the other is probably a better "fit" according to feature set, accessories, lenses, or even "feel".
Actually it's hard to find a really bad camera from "any" major manufacturer these days. All of the current crop have things to desire.
Take your time, review the differences, actually take the time to hold and handle different cameras, whether in a store or through a camera club or friends. This is a major purchase so worth the effort.
It helps to know how you will use the camera. If you have specific interests it might help to mention them here as that might indicate a preference according to camera features.
I'm very keen to learn photography. Since my childhood days, i've always enjoyed snapping pictures from different view points. But that was the old film camera. I guess it runs in the genes as my late father was a photographer back then. My interest starts from there. I would love to snap pictures from the top. I find that viewing from the top is very interesting and you get to see what's going on in the neighbourhood. Oh yes. I love nature too.
Well,honestly, I have no idea wat to look for when buying the slr as this is the first time i'm buying it. and this would be the first time i'm gonna experimenting it. They said, you got to try an error to be better. right?
So yeah, my qn is, wat to look for when buying slr
I'm very keen to learn photography. Since my childhood days, i've always enjoyed snapping pictures from different view points. But that was the old film camera. I guess it runs in the genes as my late father was a photographer back then. My interest starts from there. I would love to snap pictures from the top. I find that viewing from the top is very interesting and you get to see what's going on in the neighbourhood. Oh yes. I love nature too.
Well,honestly, I have no idea wat to look for when buying the slr as this is the first time i'm buying it. and this would be the first time i'm gonna experimenting it. They said, you got to try an error to be better. right?
So yeah, my qn is, wat to look for when buying slr
OK.
If you want a camera that can "view from the top", like an older twin lens medium format camera for instance, a dSLR may not be what you desire. It is possible to add a right-angle viewfinder attachment to the camera, but you still have to hold the camera close to your eye.
A "real time" image LCD view is recent to only a few dSLRs, and you would need an articulated screen besides to simulate that "view from the top" ability.
A number of digicams have these features, so maybe a digicam might be a better consideration.
Then again, the only thing that feature gets you is a slightly different height induced perspective of the subject, so you can easily derive that a number of different ways with a dSLR.
For taking images in good light almost any manufacturer's camera will do. What differentiates the better cameras, for me anyway, is the ability to properly expose and autofocus in low light. Low light, high ISO is difficult at best, but the recent dSLR cameras from Nikon and Canon are especially decent with ISO 800 and 1600.
The major reason to buy a dSLR, versus a digicam, is the ability to change lenses and add accessories which enhance their use.
If have a local camera club, that's a very good way to see several different types of cameras in action as well as get owner impressions and opinion.
A "real time" image LCD view is recent to only a few dSLRs, and you would need an articulated screen besides to simulate that "view from the top" ability.
That would be an articulated screen like the Olympus E-3 has, or may be even better, the Panasonic L10 (which seems to target prosumer users going for changeable lenses, and offers contrast AF in liveview as well).
Or you could have Olympus E-330 for a song at the ebay store at Cameta. It's a fine camera, which has a tiltable monitor, and two liveview modes, one with a P&S sensor in the OVF path to generate a liveview while maintaining the regular (AF) imaging mode through the main sensor, and one which uses the main imaging sensor for liveview as well, causing a delay in the image taking.
But hey, you have to be willing to walk to the beat of a different drummer.
That would be an articulated screen like the Olympus E-3 has, or may be even better, the Panasonic L10 (which seems to target prosumer users going for changeable lenses, and offers contrast AF in liveview as well).
Or you could have Olympus E-330 for a song at the ebay store at Cameta. It's a fine camera, which has a tiltable monitor, and two liveview modes, one with a P&S sensor in the image path showing a liveview while maintaining the regular (AF) imaging mode, and one which uses the main imaging sensor, causing a delay in the image taking.
But hey, you have to be willing to walk to the beat of a different drummer.
Thanks for that reminder. Olympus has been first to market with a number of neat features, not always fully appreciated by the general public until later.
Comments
The Canon 400D/XTi body is only 1.2 lbs, including battery, which is pretty light, so you are likely feeling the extra heft of the lenses, which are probably much better than you had before.
The Olympus dSLRs E10 and E20 had this feature some time ago. The lenses were not removable or interchangeable on these cameras, but they were still dSLRs with live preview.
The Olympus E-330 was the first, general purpose, interchangeable lens, dSLR with a live preview. Later the Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 and Leica Digilux 3 were developed along similar lines.
The Canon 1D MKIII is the first "professional body", interchangeable lens, dSLR to offer live preview. It remains to be seen whether it's a real feature or a marketing gimmick.
I presume you mean that you don't see the very outside border of the image frame through the optical viewfinder. The Canon 400D/XTi has a very respectable 95% coverage in the viewfinder. This does mean that 5% is outside your view, and, if you wear eyeglasses, it's hard to get your eye close enough to the viewfinder to see the periphery as well.
After considerable time and practice, you can learn to "trust" the view and frame very tightly in the viewfinder. Most of the time, I appreciate the extra pixels of a modern dSLR for the very purpose of cropping, and I don't find that a major problem since I post-process just about everything.
BTW, a Canon 30D has the same 95% coverage, the 5D has 96% coverage, and the 1D series have about 100% coverage, so you really have to pay to get that feature. (Other manufacturers are very similar in this feature and 100% coverage is a defining mark of a "pro" camera.)
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
At first I missed the LCD finder when switching from my Coolpix to the 20D. Now I don't; I can be fairly subtle with the camera--even with a grip & 24-70 beast on it. However, there are some DSLRs on the market with live LCD view--Olympus was the first to pull this off and Canon's 1D Mark III will have it in a limited form (manual focus only & a couple of other limitations). So this feature will start to spread kind of like a virus or the anti-dust "feature."
edit: ok, so ziggy got some more thorough info whil I was composing...
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
With digital imaging, it's possible to print what you capture.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Canon is the hands down winner for ISO performance.
The 14-42 and new version 40-150 (the one with 5.6 at the tele) which are the kit lenses for the E400, E410 and E510 has plastic mounts. Progression.
Well, that's dissapointing but it looks like the 400, 410 and 510 are aimed at possibly a less discriminating crowd. I've got the old 14-45 and the old 40-150 F3,5-4.5 that came with the 500 but my favorite is the 14-54 f2.8 weather sealed. I use it on the E1 most of the time and, believe it or not I like the E1 better than the 500 in spite of smaller resolution.
I just finished shooting a 5 day conference with the E1 and the 50-200 f2.8. Shot an average of 300 pics per day for the 5 days and what a pleasure to use is that E1.
And then somewhat related... The 'live LCD view' would surely have 100% coverage as it's based on what the sensor pics up... I guess?
Hopefully it does... There is no harm in harnessing good ideas - and 'live LCD view' is definitely one of them even if some of you aren't losing any sleep over the lack of it most DSLRs out today... On an DSLR it'd just be an 'added extra', if you don't want to use it... Don't... To me, there's no doubt that it's an additional way in which to be creative with your shooting... And I definitely miss it...
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
Col. Jessop :
"I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Cubans who are trained to kill me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, and make me nervous "
Ha! That's just because you all can't handle the truth.
I spent 3 months in Tokyo earlier this year which gave me the inspiration and opportunity to take approximately 50 photos per day (on average)... I finally got round to selecting a few highlights, so take a look at how the 400D faired in the hands of an amateur: http://encosion.com/
And here are some earlier shots (sans flash) of the excellent Swedish act - Sounds Like Violence - live at the Borderline in London... This relates to the beginning of this thread where I was asking questions about such conditions... These shots aren't perfect in the least, but I think with more experience under these conditions I'd be able to get some amazing shots!
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
I'm a begginner. Lately, i've been surveying for slr cameras that is worth buying even when i go to the next level in future. I'm still stucked between two brands. Nikon or Canon? The EOS 40D or Nikon D80?
I understand that the lenses are the main expense but the other quality wise, is it canon or nikon?
Any suggestions and advice??
I need help!
Welcome to the Digital Grin.
The choice is definitely a very personal one. Either brand would potentially serve you well, but one brand or the other is probably a better "fit" according to feature set, accessories, lenses, or even "feel".
Actually it's hard to find a really bad camera from "any" major manufacturer these days. All of the current crop have things to desire.
Take your time, review the differences, actually take the time to hold and handle different cameras, whether in a store or through a camera club or friends. This is a major purchase so worth the effort.
It helps to know how you will use the camera. If you have specific interests it might help to mention them here as that might indicate a preference according to camera features.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
http://www.jonathanswinton.com
http://www.swintoncounseling.com
Well,honestly, I have no idea wat to look for when buying the slr as this is the first time i'm buying it. and this would be the first time i'm gonna experimenting it. They said, you got to try an error to be better. right?
So yeah, my qn is, wat to look for when buying slr
OK.
If you want a camera that can "view from the top", like an older twin lens medium format camera for instance, a dSLR may not be what you desire. It is possible to add a right-angle viewfinder attachment to the camera, but you still have to hold the camera close to your eye.
A "real time" image LCD view is recent to only a few dSLRs, and you would need an articulated screen besides to simulate that "view from the top" ability.
A number of digicams have these features, so maybe a digicam might be a better consideration.
Then again, the only thing that feature gets you is a slightly different height induced perspective of the subject, so you can easily derive that a number of different ways with a dSLR.
For taking images in good light almost any manufacturer's camera will do. What differentiates the better cameras, for me anyway, is the ability to properly expose and autofocus in low light. Low light, high ISO is difficult at best, but the recent dSLR cameras from Nikon and Canon are especially decent with ISO 800 and 1600.
The major reason to buy a dSLR, versus a digicam, is the ability to change lenses and add accessories which enhance their use.
If have a local camera club, that's a very good way to see several different types of cameras in action as well as get owner impressions and opinion.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
That would be an articulated screen like the Olympus E-3 has, or may be even better, the Panasonic L10 (which seems to target prosumer users going for changeable lenses, and offers contrast AF in liveview as well).
Or you could have Olympus E-330 for a song at the ebay store at Cameta. It's a fine camera, which has a tiltable monitor, and two liveview modes, one with a P&S sensor in the OVF path to generate a liveview while maintaining the regular (AF) imaging mode through the main sensor, and one which uses the main imaging sensor for liveview as well, causing a delay in the image taking.
But hey, you have to be willing to walk to the beat of a different drummer.
Thanks for that reminder. Olympus has been first to market with a number of neat features, not always fully appreciated by the general public until later.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums