Verification from Canon

3rdPlanetPhotography3rdPlanetPhotography Banned Posts: 920 Major grins
edited December 11, 2006 in Cameras
:clap

I have confirmation from Canon USA that the Canon EOS Digital cameras WILL work with Sunpak and other Side mount flash units using the PC cord.

There has been much discussion about a 6 volt limit that could fry the camera. This is true for the Hot Shoe on top of the camera but you could use a Safe Sync device.

If you use the PC port on the side of the camera it will withstand up to 249 volts.

So all you Sunpak 544, 555, 622 and other users... shoot away...

I sold my 544 from fear of frying my camera... Now I'm buying another one... maybe two :wink


Hope this info helps anyone with that voltate worry!

Scott

Comments

  • DigiGrinDigiGrin Registered Users Posts: 42 Big grins
    edited December 8, 2006
    OMG .. Greatness!!! .. So my Metz 60CT4 will be fine also .. I assume?
    Ziggy was kind enough to reply in another thread, when I asked about this very issue.

    He sent me a link ..
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=245292&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
    So is that what I need to make it all magic again?

    Tomi
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,130 moderator
    edited December 8, 2006
    Scott,

    Canon used to have documents which contradict what they claim to you.

    Residual documents from Canon include:

    A quote from Chuck Westfall, [SIZE=-1]Canon's "Director of Customer Relations" for the company's camera group[/SIZE]. (Title according to Forbes, Feb 2006):
    http://www.geo.tu-freiberg.de/docs/eos-faq/3flash.html#q21

    Can I use a non-Canon, non-dedicated flash with my EOS camera?


    "[From Chuck Westfall]
    USE OF NON-DEDICATED FLASH UNITS WITH EOS CAMERAS

    Before using any unfamiliar studio strobe or other non-dedicated flash unit with an EOS camera, we STRONGLY recommend that you determine its trigger circuit voltage. Excessive trigger circuit voltage can damage the shutter units and X-contacts of most modern 35mm SLR cameras. Please be aware of the following information:

    Trigger Circuit Voltage: The "trigger circuit" is the part of any electronic flash that detects the X-sync signal from the camera and then fires the flash. In order to do this, it supplies a certain amount of voltage through the sync cord or hot shoe to the camera's X-sync contact. The camera's X-sync contact, whether in the form of a PC socket or a dedicated hot shoe, is connected to the camera's shutter by a very thin connecting wire. When the first shutter curtain reaches the end of its travel, a small part of the shutter mechanism contacts the connecting wire, thus completing the circuit. At that moment, a change in resistance is detected by the flash's trigger circuit, causing the flash to fire.

    Canon dedicated Speedlites pass no more than 6 volts DC through their trigger circuits. This is the level for which all EOS cameras, including the EOS-1 as well as the A2/A2E, 10s, 630, RT, Elan, Rebel etc. are designed.

    GENERALLY SPEAKING, WE CANNOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF ANY STROBE WHO'S TRIGGER CIRCUIT VOLTAGE LEVEL EXCEEDS 6 VOLTS."
    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:e_8JRrYrYjsJ:www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_eos_20d.html+site:usa.canon.com+%2Bcanon+%2B10d+%2Bvoltage&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
    (Search for the word "voltage")

    (note that Canon alludes to the previous "lesser" voltage specifications of the 10D. The 300D is presumed to have the same specifications as the 10D, since Canon never claimed otherwise, and since the 10D and the 300D are very similar shutter mechanisms.)

    "New High Speed Shutter

    The EOS 20D has a newly developed shutter with a top speed of 1/8000 sec., user-settable in 1/3 and 1/2 stop increments (in shutter speed priority AE and manual modes) and a maximum flash synchronization speed of 1/250 sec. First or second curtain flash sync is possible. The shutter's APS-C configuration allows a reduction in the size of the unit, smaller shutter blades with lower inertial mass, and shorter travel distance. Stronger magnets are used for each shutter curtain, permitting better control of the blades. A semiconductor switch replaces the traditional sync contacts, ending scorching and frictional wear while at the same time increasing the limit for trigger circuit     voltage to 250V. The result of these changes is a more rugged and reliable shutter unit with substantially improved performance."


    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gKAfZgARvqsJ:www.usa.canon.com/EOS-1D/faqs.html+site:canon.com+%2B%22high-voltage%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
    (Search for the term, "high-voltage". I presume this is where the difference between the PC connection and the hot-shoe is described.)
    "High-voltage flash units go_top.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif Q: Can the EOS-1D utilize high-voltage flash units?
    A: When connecting via sync port, avoid using flash units with voltages higher than 250V, which may damage the EOS-1D. Also, high-voltage flash units may fail to emit light when mounted on the accessory shoe.     spacer.gif
    Sites which you can trust:

    http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#trigger

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:dnL9B5hFFxEJ:www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos20d.html+%2Bcanon+%2B10d+%2Bvoltage&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5
    (read the section under "Flash")

    Bottom line:

    Since the Canon "EX" series compact electronic flash units are measured to be less than 6v, I have to assume that there is a reason for it, since it would have been easier to produce units with a higher trigger voltage.

    Believe what you will, but Canon seems serious about limiting the trigger voltage to less than 6v, so I will do the same using the Wein Safe Sync products, or similar, should they be available.

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • 3rdPlanetPhotography3rdPlanetPhotography Banned Posts: 920 Major grins
    edited December 9, 2006
    ziggy, That's a lot of good information but canon stated to me that the 20d/30d both have a 249volt limit on the PC port. They told me that the hot shoe still was 6 volt so I don't know really what to believe. I talked to a technician at Canon USA today, that's where I got the information.

    I'm looking to use a Sunpak 622 which is suposed to have a 8volt trigger and I plan to use it on the PC port of the camera so I should be well within the safe categroy. If I hook it to the hot shoe I would for sure use a safe sync device.

    I think we are saying the same thing right?

    Scott



    ziggy53 wrote:
    Scott,

    Canon used to have documents which contradict what they claim to you.

    Residual documents from Canon include:

    A quote from Chuck Westfall, [SIZE=-1]Canon's "Director of Customer Relations" for the company's camera group[/SIZE]. (Title according to Forbes, Feb 2006):
    http://www.geo.tu-freiberg.de/docs/eos-faq/3flash.html#q21

    Can I use a non-Canon, non-dedicated flash with my EOS camera?


    "[From Chuck Westfall]
    USE OF NON-DEDICATED FLASH UNITS WITH EOS CAMERAS

    Before using any unfamiliar studio strobe or other non-dedicated flash unit with an EOS camera, we STRONGLY recommend that you determine its trigger circuit voltage. Excessive trigger circuit voltage can damage the shutter units and X-contacts of most modern 35mm SLR cameras. Please be aware of the following information:

    Trigger Circuit Voltage: The "trigger circuit" is the part of any electronic flash that detects the X-sync signal from the camera and then fires the flash. In order to do this, it supplies a certain amount of voltage through the sync cord or hot shoe to the camera's X-sync contact. The camera's X-sync contact, whether in the form of a PC socket or a dedicated hot shoe, is connected to the camera's shutter by a very thin connecting wire. When the first shutter curtain reaches the end of its travel, a small part of the shutter mechanism contacts the connecting wire, thus completing the circuit. At that moment, a change in resistance is detected by the flash's trigger circuit, causing the flash to fire.

    Canon dedicated Speedlites pass no more than 6 volts DC through their trigger circuits. This is the level for which all EOS cameras, including the EOS-1 as well as the A2/A2E, 10s, 630, RT, Elan, Rebel etc. are designed.

    GENERALLY SPEAKING, WE CANNOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF ANY STROBE WHO'S TRIGGER CIRCUIT VOLTAGE LEVEL EXCEEDS 6 VOLTS."
    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:e_8JRrYrYjsJ:www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_eos_20d.html+site:usa.canon.com+%2Bcanon+%2B10d+%2Bvoltage&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
    (Search for the word "voltage")

    (note that Canon alludes to the previous "lesser" voltage specifications of the 10D. The 300D is presumed to have the same specifications as the 10D, since Canon never claimed otherwise, and since the 10D and the 300D are very similar shutter mechanisms.)

    "New High Speed Shutter

    The EOS 20D has a newly developed shutter with a top speed of 1/8000 sec., user-settable in 1/3 and 1/2 stop increments (in shutter speed priority AE and manual modes) and a maximum flash synchronization speed of 1/250 sec. First or second curtain flash sync is possible. The shutter's APS-C configuration allows a reduction in the size of the unit, smaller shutter blades with lower inertial mass, and shorter travel distance. Stronger magnets are used for each shutter curtain, permitting better control of the blades. A semiconductor switch replaces the traditional sync contacts, ending scorching and frictional wear while at the same time increasing the limit for trigger circuit voltage to 250V. The result of these changes is a more rugged and reliable shutter unit with substantially improved performance."


    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gKAfZgARvqsJ:www.usa.canon.com/EOS-1D/faqs.html+site:canon.com+%2B%22high-voltage%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
    (Search for the term, "high-voltage". I presume this is where the difference between the PC connection and the hot-shoe is described.)
    "High-voltage flash units go_top.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif spacer.gif Q: Can the EOS-1D utilize high-voltage flash units?
    A: When connecting via sync port, avoid using flash units with voltages higher than 250V, which may damage the EOS-1D. Also, high-voltage flash units may fail to emit light when mounted on the accessory shoe.     spacer.gif
    Sites which you can trust:

    http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#trigger

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:dnL9B5hFFxEJ:www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos20d.html+%2Bcanon+%2B10d+%2Bvoltage&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5
    (read the section under "Flash")

    Bottom line:

    Since the Canon "EX" series compact electronic flash units are measured to be less than 6v, I have to assume that there is a reason for it, since it would have been easier to produce units with a higher trigger voltage.

    Believe what you will, but Canon seems serious about limiting the trigger voltage to less than 6v, so I will do the same using the Wein Safe Sync products, or similar, should they be available.

    ziggy53
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,130 moderator
    edited December 9, 2006
    kc7dji wrote:
    ziggy, That's a lot of good information but canon stated to me that the 20d/30d both have a 249volt limit on the PC port. They told me that the hot shoe still was 6 volt so I don't know really what to believe. I talked to a technician at Canon USA today, that's where I got the information.

    I'm looking to use a Sunpak 622 which is suposed to have a 8volt trigger and I plan to use it on the PC port of the camera so I should be well within the safe categroy. If I hook it to the hot shoe I would for sure use a safe sync device.

    I think we are saying the same thing right?

    Scott

    Scott,

    According to the documentation posted on the Internet, Canon states that the 20D is safe to 250v at the PC connector/terminal. The Sunpak 622 is indeed independantly tested at around 8v for both the "Pro" and the "Super" models.

    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

    For your own peace-of-mind, I recommend you test the trigger voltage of your unit to be sure. It is pretty easy to do, and the general details are at: (Under the "How to check the Trigger Voltage" heading)

    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/g1strobe.html

    Whenever you speak to a service or technical rep, have them send you something in writing or e-mail, or direct you to a related document posted on the Internet. Verbal communications are just "opinions", and can be misinterpreted. People are much more careful with facts when they are written.

    Best,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • claudermilkclaudermilk Registered Users Posts: 2,756 Major grins
    edited December 11, 2006
    I would think if there's any doubt, then get yourself a Wein Safe-Synch to lower the voltage seen by the camera.
    Chris
    http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
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