iView MediaPro - help with DVD backup

fish

I've been mucking around with the iVMP demo the last couple of days and have catalogued approximately 10K images. Still needs a lot of work, but they're in there. While I have a backup strategy, I'd also like to backup to DVD for offsite storage. I've tried the "backup/CDROM" option, but have not been successful at all...it just doesn't want to complete the burn.

Any suggestions on how to burn DVDs with catalogs? I read through some of the forums on the iview website and they were pretty useless.

Do I need a 3rd party DVD burning app? :scratch

DavidTO

fish wrote:

I've been mucking around with the iVMP demo the last couple of days and have catalogued approximately 10K images. Still needs a lot of work, but they're in there. While I have a backup strategy, I'd also like to backup to DVD for offsite storage. I've tried the "backup/CDROM" option, but have not been successful at all...it just doesn't want to complete the burn.

Any suggestions on how to burn DVDs with catalogs? I read through some of the forums on the iview website and they were pretty useless.

Do I need a 3rd party DVD burning app?

I've never done it, always backup to firewire. If Lynnesite doesn't see/answer this thread, send her a PM, as I'm pretty sure she knows the ins/outs of this one.

patch29

I have a friend that does it. He burns the DVD then you catalog the disk in iview. I don't know about the backup option from iview.

fish

patch29 wrote:

I have a friend that does it. He burns the DVD then you catalog the disk in iview. I don't know about the backup option from iview.

it's that little bit that you don't know that I need to know.

The cat reader is a free unlimited download, so you can include a copy on every CD or DVD so anybody can peruse it.

hello lynnsite...paging lynnsite to the white courtesy telephone.

fish

DavidTO wrote:

I've never done it, always backup to firewire. If Lynnesite doesn't see/answer this thread, send her a PM, as I'm pretty sure she knows the ins/outs of this one.

and btw, you are corrupting me, david.

DavidTO

fish wrote:

it's that little bit that you don't know that I need to know.

The cat reader is a free unlimited download, so you can include a copy on every CD or DVD so anybody can peruse it.

hello lynnsite...paging lynnsite to the white courtesy telephone.

Lynnesite told me she uses Toast.

How exactly are you doing, or attempting, to do this? The back-up command says that you can put in any removeable drive. You could even use a disk image, I believe. If you make a disk image the size of a DVD, back-up to it, then burn that disk image, that would most likely work. The advantage of Toast is in burning multiple copies of the same image quickly and easily.

DavidTO

fish wrote:

and btw, you are corrupting me, david.

enlightening, fish, enlightening.

fish

I'm about two hours away from dumping ivmp. It's crashed on me twice and lockedup once. And then there was the time that I deleted ALL of my images with no warning and no way to cancel.

:splat

Yesterday, I sent a formal request asking for help on the DVD backup problem and the response today was a link to the online manual and a brief explanation on how the mac dvd burning software works.:roll

It seems nearly impossible to guess (no, it's not obvious) how many images constitute a DVD's worth, then backup. The app isn't smart enough to backup across multiple disks.

What other (more stable and functional) alternatives exist for image cataloging on the mac?

DavidTO

fish wrote:

It seems nearly impossible to guess (no, it's not obvious) how many images constitute a DVD's worth, then backup. The app isn't smart enough to backup across multiple disks.

Oooch. Someone's frustrated.

Like I said before, never having backed up to DVD, I'm not gonna be much help, but I can tell you this: The size of a set that you're viewing is visible at the bottom of the window.

So let's say you make a set for back-up. At the bottome it'll say:

Catalog xx.x mb | Media xx.x gb (xx.xx gb)

The number in parens is the size of your current set that you are viewing. That should make determining how many photos will fit easier, no?

As for the crashing/locking up thing, you could have bad media, or a corrupted catalog. Copy all your media to a new catalog first, to rule that out. Second, try and determine which media file may have corruption.

patch29

fish wrote:

I'm about two hours away from dumping ivmp. It's crashed on me twice and lockedup once. And then there was the time that I deleted ALL of my images with no warning and no way to cancel.

:splat

Yesterday, I sent a formal request asking for help on the DVD backup problem and the response today was a link to the online manual and a brief explanation on how the mac dvd burning software works.:roll

It seems nearly impossible to guess (no, it's not obvious) how many images constitute a DVD's worth, then backup. The app isn't smart enough to backup across multiple disks.

What other (more stable and functional) alternatives exist for image cataloging on the mac?

That is odd that iview is crashing. That is a problem I have not had with it. What version are you using?

I typically back up right away to DVD. I just use "get info", I think the max Toast will put on a DVD is 4.3 gb. I just fill a folder and burn it, then onto the next, most jobs are less than 3 DVD's so it is not a big deal.

Here is a workflow recommendation to you.

Shoot,
use a "burn folder" in that put your job (project, one day, etc) folder in this folder keep your corresponding images. I would keep a continuos copy on an external drive as well.
watch the size of it, burn it before it goes over 4.3gb.
If needed create temporary iview catalogs for those images.
Now when you burn the disk you have a few options, one create and iview catalog for that disk's contents, two create a master iview catalog for all your images and disks. Once you get ahead of the workload it should work well for you.

I don't completely do it this way since I back up to DVD and external drives immediately. Then I edit and organize later. I also have begun verifying my DVD's, not just by verify in Toast, but also running a batch on the disk (create contact sheets or web gallery) to know I really can access the data later. It takes a lot of time, but could turn out to really save the day in the future.

Where did iview delete images from? It can delete them from a catalog, but not from the hard drive. So I would think they are still on your HD or in the trash. Are you using iview or another program to download your memory cards? I do it manually by dragging images to a folder I create. I also do not let any programs on my computer reformat my cards, only my camera.

I hope this helps.

fish

patch29 wrote:

I have a friend that does it. He burns the DVD then you catalog the disk in iview. I don't know about the backup option from iview.

This would work, but only after the burn session was closed, right? Then you couldn't put the catalog on the DVD. There's really no benefit to doing it in iVMP, over simply dragging images to the empty disk and burning. No, the idea is to have a catalog reader and a catalog on the DVD with the images for a self-contained archive.


Except! I ran into two error popups today:

(1) "The command couldn't be completed, because the catalog contains files not found in mounted volumes." Which is bs, of course, cuz all the images have been moved to folders on the desktop after plucking them from the claws of trash death.


(2) "The command couldn't be completed, because the items couldn't be added to the destination." WTF, over?

I finally pared down a sample of photos to burn totaling ~800MB. I got the first error again, but it burned anyway. Only it didn't have the catalog on the disk and the reader was buried in a folder hierarchy that made no sense at all.

Am I expecting too much from this $200 program?

fish

DavidTO wrote:

Lynnesite told me she uses Toast.

oh great...another $80 to make a $200 application work. Are these things made by BMW or what??

How exactly are you doing, or attempting, to do this? The back-up command says that you can put in any removeable drive. You could even use a disk image, I believe. If you make a disk image the size of a DVD, back-up to it, then burn that disk image, that would most likely work. The advantage of Toast is in burning multiple copies of the same image quickly and easily.

What I'm trying to do is select about 4GB worth of images from iView, click the "Make backup / CDROM" function, as well as copy the reader and the catalog to the DVD. The manual says it can do that. It apparently CANNOT split the backup across multiple DVDs, which is fine...and why I'm trying to just select 4GB worth of images so it doesn't have to.

fish

DavidTO wrote:

Oooch. Someone's frustrated.

noshit.

Like I said before, never having backed up to DVD, I'm not gonna be much help, but I can tell you this: The size of a set that you're viewing is visible at the bottom of the window.

So let's say you make a set for back-up. At the bottome it'll say:

Catalog xx.x mb | Media xx.x gb (xx.xx gb)

The number in parens is the size of your current set that you are viewing. That should make determining how many photos will fit easier, no?

Right. Yes, it should make it easier. If it were even partially accurate. It is pretty close when you've got a couple of hundred MB's worth of images. But when you get over about 1.2GB, it takes about 60 seconds to display a number in parens. Then you select more and it either displays the wrong amount (like 6.1GB, when the entire cat is 6.1GB and there are still 400 RAW images unselected). So, that's a pretty useless function.

As for the crashing/locking up thing, you could have bad media, or a corrupted catalog. Copy all your media to a new catalog first, to rule that out. Second, try and determine which media file may have corruption.

I used the "transfer to folder" option and created a hierarchy of folders based on dates. That worked okay, however the images still reside in my iPhoto library, which confuses the heck out of me. I've got twice as many original images on my drive than I should. Anyway, I nuked the cat after creating/moving the images to the new folder structure, deleted all bits of iVMP that I could find, downloaded again and created a new set of catalogs. Which means I needed to reannotate all of the images (grrrr). I've not had a crash since doing this, but I've also not spent a lot of time mucking around with it like I did earlier on a 3 hour boring concall.

I'm actually not all that concerned about the crashes at this point. I just want the app. to work as advertised and be worth $200 over iPhoto. Hell, I'll even settle for it being worth $100 over iPhoto.

fish

patch29 wrote:

That is odd that iview is crashing. That is a problem I have not had with it. What version are you using?

The newest...2.6.2. Build 3CD5.

Here is a workflow recommendation to you.

Shoot,
use a "burn folder" in that put your job (project, one day, etc) folder in this folder keep your corresponding images. I would keep a continuos copy on an external drive as well.
watch the size of it, burn it before it goes over 4.3gb.
If needed create temporary iview catalogs for those images.
Now when you burn the disk you have a few options, one create and iview catalog for that disk's contents, two create a master iview catalog for all your images and disks. Once you get ahead of the workload it should work well for you.

That's fine, but again...why even use iView? I can do that with OSx folders .

I don't completely do it this way since I back up to DVD and external drives immediately. Then I edit and organize later. I also have begun verifying my DVD's, not just by verify in Toast, but also running a batch on the disk (create contact sheets or web gallery) to know I really can access the data later. It takes a lot of time, but could turn out to really save the day in the future.

ahhh...the old "do as I say, not as I do" shtick, huh?

Where did iview delete images from? It can delete them from a catalog, but not from the hard drive. So I would think they are still on your HD or in the trash.

Yes, well. Technically, iView didn't delete them...I did. I inadvertently had all the images in the master cat selected, then clicked trash and the disk started chirping...no "are you sure you want to do this?" popup or anything. So yes, they were in my trash. Along with another 100 documents and images. I finally got them pulled out, but it was a SLOW process, and completely unnecessary, imho.

Are you using iview or another program to download your memory cards? I do it manually by dragging images to a folder I create. I also do not let any programs on my computer reformat my cards, only my camera.

When I put a card in the reader, iview asks what I want to do with it, but I just dump to a folder on the desktop, then drag into the cat I want. Of course, I've only done this twice...all the other images were already on the drive, mostly in iPhoto. I only format cards in-camera, once before every shooting session.

I hope this helps.

It helps me think through some of it.

Unfortunately, iView's support is really weak. They have a set of forums, but I think there are only about 1000 threads in it. They also have a "support FAQ" with two Q's in the "troubleshooting" section. They're in London, so I reckon I'll get one question and one answer every day. That would be a plus, since there are dozens of people on their forums who complain that they NEVER get an email response.


so at this point...LAME LAME LAME.

I guess I need to PM lynnsite and see if she can help me. Otherwise, if I don't get some reasonable response to my request for email, iVMP is a goner from my Mac, and I'll keep looking for a reasonable image management solution and/or keep using iPhoto.

patch29

Fish, I found this software today. It might have the capability to span a folder over a set of CD's/DVD's. It is hard to tell exactly how it will work without trying it. I don't know if it uses toast or the Mac OS burn utility or just itself? I wanted to pass it along as it might interest you, mainly for dealing with large folders. It won't catalog your stuff, but might make archiving easier. It is shareware $25, but will work as a full version to test it, you only pay if it you like it and find it useful.

patch29

Fish I know you are using iView now, but thought I would pass this along for you and others. I was speaking to a friend today at PhotoshopWorld and he said that Portfolio 7 will do everything you want, catalog (even raw), span disks, burn disks directly from the program and add IPTC info on importing. I am going to the Expo today to see if it does all this and more. I might be getting some new software today.

Edit: I found that is will not span disks as I was told, not sure if I am doing something wrong or it does not exist?

fish

sounds interesting...i'm a bit reluctant to shell out another $200 at this point, tho. iVMP + toast is working for me at this point.

keep it coming tho.

DavidTO

patch29 wrote:

Fish I know you are using iView now, but thought I would pass this along for you and others. I was speaking to a friend today at PhotoshopWorld and he said that Portfolio 7 will do everything you want, catalog (even raw), span disks, burn disks directly from the program and add IPTC info on importing. I am going to the Expo today to see if it does all this and more. I might be getting some new software today.

I have demoed Portfolio, and while it makes sense for large companies that need to share a catalog on a network, I hate it, find it to be poorly designed for my needs. iVMP is a much better choice, IMO, for individual photographers.

patch29

DavidTO wrote:

I have demoed Portfolio, and while it makes sense for large companies that need to share a catalog on a network, I hate it, find it to be poorly designed for my needs. iVMP is a much better choice, IMO, for individual photographers.

I agree with you, now that I have worked with the demo it does not fit well in my workflow. It does give huge preview images very quickly and has a lot of good functions for cataloging and keywording. I did buy a copy as Photoshopworld when I was in Las Vegas, but did not register it, so I will be selling it.