I Need Help!

imaximax Registered Users Posts: 691 Major grins
edited January 2, 2005 in Cameras
So here is the big question.


How does one convince there significant other that a purchase of a 20D Rebel Outfit is a wise investment and that the outcome would not only be financially beneficial but the quality of the pictures would be far superior to anything that I am currently using.


I currently use a Canon Powershot A-60 2 MP for digital and my Rebel G-2 for film. Both are used for my business and I have had them for over a year. I keep telling her it's time for an upgrade and she's not buying it. She can’t understand why I can’t just use what I have!


Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?

Comments

  • Tim KirkwoodTim Kirkwood Registered Users Posts: 900 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    A old chinesse saying comes to mind:


    "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"


    lol :roll
    www.KirkwoodPhotography.com

    Speak with sweet words, for you never know when you may have to eat them....
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    Don't read if your politically correct
    imax wrote:
    So here is the big question.


    How does one convince there significant other that a purchase of a 20D Rebel Outfit is a wise investment and that the outcome would not only be financially beneficial but the quality of the pictures would be far superior to anything that I am currently using.


    I currently use a Canon Powershot A-60 2 MP for digital and my Rebel G-2 for film. Both are used for my business and I have had them for over a year. I keep telling her it's time for an upgrade and she's not buying it. She can’t understand why I can’t just use what I have!


    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?


    Sorry I just can't help myself..........................Go down to Sears, and buy a pair of paints, put them on. It's your business, and your money.

    Well. Ok if it's her money, forget the above, and govel at her feet.

    Yes I am single. :D

    I don't do grovel, but if Ausie Kate, dumps her husband, and gives me a call. I'll run down to Barnes and Noble, and pick up the guide to being a married man and learn how. rolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif
  • wxwaxwxwax Registered Users Posts: 15,471 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    Tough spot, imax! You don't say how much you shoot for your business, nor how important are the shots that you take. If you shoot a lot, digital should be cheaper than film. And if the shots are important, then an A60 may not provide the quality necessary.

    But truth to tell, I suspect logic often takes a back seat to emotion when it comes to upgrading camera gear - I know it does with me! lol3.gif
    Sid.
    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
    http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
  • imaximax Registered Users Posts: 691 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    Hey Sam, Thanks for the reply. I don't grovel either Sam, what I was looking for was the benefits of upgrading my equipment, and hopefully getting her to understand the benefits and appreciate them as I already do.

    I guess I could look at your reply as negative and that you are putting a me down on this, or I could look at it like this. For years it was all about me, What I want when I want it, no matter what the cost. I lost my selfishness when I said I Do! Perhaps one day you'll find that Aussie Kate and understand. Until then thanks for the reply, and have a great New Year!
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    hiya, imax wave.gif. We went to one of your theaters last week to see The Polar Express. Very good film.
    imax wrote:
    How does one convince there significant other that a purchase of a 20D Rebel Outfit is a wise investment and that the outcome would not only be financially beneficial but the quality of the pictures would be far superior to anything that I am currently using.
    Well, first off, there's a big difference between a "rebel outfit" and a 20D. Which is it? The Rebel (300D) kits are on sale all over the place for about 2/3 of what you can expect to pay for a 20D without lens. And since I'm in a bit of a grouchy mood, it's "their" not "there".


    I currently use a Canon Powershot A-60 2 MP for digital and my Rebel G-2 for film. Both are used for my business and I have had them for over a year. I keep telling her it's time for an upgrade and she's not buying it. She can’t understand why I can’t just use what I have!
    The first question you need to answer for yourself is "why can't you keep using what you have?". What do you want to do differently that requires a much MUCH more expensive rig? Remember, the body is just the start. You will spend much more money on lenses and accessories than you will on the body. Be prepared for a big money pit.


    If you can answer that question and justify the huge expense, then it will be easier to convince your wife. However, if you've got $30K in high interest credit card debt, you should probably consider paying that down before launching into an endeavor that will likely cost you many thousands from here on out.
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,898 moderator
    edited January 2, 2005
    Well, you did mention it was a business expense. How do the numbers work
    out? Can you quantify your purchase? Or can you legitimately say that
    NOT purchasing new gear will cost you jobs?

    Next question. Is this a need or want purchase?

    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • luckyrweluckyrwe Registered Users Posts: 952 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    I got me my 1DMkII with 3 lenses and my wife was so happy that she got me a Pelican case for it all! How did I do it? While I had my wallet open I paid off her car, the sears bill and the tax bill.

    Now I have a new rule. Anytime I want to buy something new I save up double the money so that I can get something she will like at the same time.

    But then if I wanted to upgrade my 1DII to a 1DsII, she really won't even notice that slight difference.... mwink.gif
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,694 moderator
    edited January 2, 2005
    imax wrote:
    So here is the big question.


    How does one convince there significant other that a purchase of a 20D Rebel Outfit is a wise investment and that the outcome would not only be financially beneficial but the quality of the pictures would be far superior to anything that I am currently using.


    I currently use a Canon Powershot A-60 2 MP for digital and my Rebel G-2 for film. Both are used for my business and I have had them for over a year. I keep telling her it's time for an upgrade and she's not buying it. She can’t understand why I can’t just use what I have!


    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?


    You don't say what your business is, nor how often and how critical your images are for your business. Nor do you describe your wife's position in your business.

    I don't discuss business purchases with my spouse at all, but she is not involved in my business in any way so I can do that. If you are a business partner with your spouse you may not have that kind of liberty.

    If you're shooting thousands of images in film, digtial shooting may pay for itself quickly. However if you're just shooting a few frames, then continue with film as far as expense is concerned.

    Your image quality can be much better with a 20D than most 35mm film if you are also going to learn the necessary post processing which will require, in addition to the 20D, a good computer and editing software of sometype.

    And then, there are all the new lenses you will want to complete your kit.

    Fish is right that digital photography- done well- can be quite an expensive hobby. Those of us who are heavily into digital photgraphy have learned this lesson the hard way - but most of us can afford to indulge ourselves as hobbyists and apparently our spouses tolerate us and it.

    For working professional photographers digital will generally pay for itself.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    do what i do....
    i stop at tiffany's after i visit b&h.

    i do, i really do :D
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    luckyrwe wrote:
    But then if I wanted to upgrade my 1DII to a 1DsII, she really won't even notice that slight difference.... mwink.gif

    my dw just asked me yesterday... "honey, i thougth your camera was black and silver??" lol3.gif
  • luckyrweluckyrwe Registered Users Posts: 952 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    I just found out that BH has the 1DsII in stock. Hmmmm, if I get it and live to write about it, I'll post here.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    imax wrote:
    Hey Sam, Thanks for the reply. I don't grovel either Sam, what I was looking for was the benefits of upgrading my equipment, and hopefully getting her to understand the benefits and appreciate them as I already do.

    I guess I could look at your reply as negative and that you are putting a me down on this, or I could look at it like this. For years it was all about me, What I want when I want it, no matter what the cost. I lost my selfishness when I said I Do! Perhaps one day you'll find that Aussie Kate and understand. Until then thanks for the reply, and have a great New Year!
    imax,

    Please don't take my reply as a put down. I did not intend to insult in any way. That's why the smile faces are there. :D Ok, a good natured jibe maybe. Every married man or guy living with his girlfriend here is in the same boat. Kinda like how our government works, to get a bridge here, we need to build a bridge there, and another one over in the next valley, etc.

    I have a hard enough time buying the gear I have. If I had to buy additional shiny stuff each time I'd have a disposable box camera. rolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif

    That Ausie Kate is a regular here. Lives down under somewhere.

    Sam :D
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,898 moderator
    edited January 2, 2005
    luckyrwe wrote:
    I just found out that BH has the 1DsII in stock. Hmmmm, if I get it and live to write about it, I'll post here.
    "cover me...I'm goin' in!" :D:D

    ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • imaximax Registered Users Posts: 691 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    Hey Sam, No problem. I guess my wording came across in a way that it could be taken like that. Sorry if I came across like I was upset.

    I'm more upset with the logical side of my brain doing the thinking!

    Is it a need or is it a want?

    In my business (I'm a PI)I have gotten by with what I have. My clients have not complained about the quality of the pictures, I do. And now that I am looking into other avenues which include possibly doing some work for several local newspapers here in the area I guess I want the pictures to be of the best possible quality.

    Perhaps a compromise, maybe going with a 10D which appears to be half of the 20D would be a solution. I guess I just need to think about it and make a decision. I just hate to buy one and then find myself wanting more!

    Thank you all for taking the time to answer this question, I really do appreciate the input!
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,898 moderator
    edited January 2, 2005
    imax wrote:
    In my business (I'm a PI)I have gotten by with what I have. My clients have not complained about the quality of the pictures, I do. And now that I am looking into other avenues which include possibly doing some work for several local newspapers here in the area I guess I want the pictures to be of the best possible quality.

    Perhaps a compromise, maybe going with a 10D which appears to be half of the 20D would be a solution. I guess I just need to think about it and make a decision. I just hate to buy one and then find myself wanting more!

    Thank you all for taking the time to answer this question, I really do appreciate the input!
    I have a quick question. In another forum, there was discussion about a
    contract for photos of a construction project. A part of the bid specifically
    included a request for film.

    I can only imagine the request had to do with the legal aspect of film vs.
    digital (real or perceived aspects). Do the images you shoot end up in court
    and if so, how do you demonstrate they've not been altered? It's more of
    a 'my interest' question really.

    The 20d has better low light performance (but then you'd also want a fast lens
    if that's the job you need to do) than the 10d.

    TIA,
    Ian
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • imaximax Registered Users Posts: 691 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    Hey Ian,

    Before I take any photos for anyone I determine beforehand what they are going to be used for. 99.9% of what I do is behind the scenes, and it stays out of the court system, and if something does happen to go that way it's generally settled before hand.

    I specialize in locating missing persons and missing collateral, and the few domestics that I take on, they involve video. As for your question:

    Do the images you shoot end up in court
    and if so, how do you demonstrate they've not been altered? It's more of
    a 'my interest' question really.

    I would imagine if you can produce the negative of the film that would resolve any issues regarding altering. Since I have never come across that particular situation I cannot be sure. One of my associates quite frequently ends up in court and I will put this question to him and let you know the answer when I hear from him.

    Joe
  • luckyrweluckyrwe Registered Users Posts: 952 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    I had one of my pictures from years gone by end up in court. I had a Skylight filter on the lens to protect the front element. With a jury unversed in photography, the lawyer almost convinced them the filter made a Salvador Dali type of image out or reality. If you shoot for court often, I recommend not using any filters or corrections. You may not be wrong in doing so, but you may spend a day trying to explain it to 12 non-photographers.
  • fishfish Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    imax wrote:
    Do the images you shoot end up in court
    and if so, how do you demonstrate they've not been altered? It's more of
    a 'my interest' question really.

    I would imagine if you can produce the negative of the film that would resolve any issues regarding altering. Since I have never come across that particular situation I cannot be sure. One of my associates quite frequently ends up in court and I will put this question to him and let you know the answer when I hear from him.

    Joe

    Yet another reason to get a 20D: Data Verification Kit DVK-E2.

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II and EOS 20D digital cameras can prove it's images are unaltered, original files. The Data Verification Kit DVK-E2, consisting of a dedicated memory card, a Secure Mobile (SM) card reader, and special software for Windows 2000/XP is able to verify that EOS-1Ds Mark II and EOS 20D image files are absolutely unaltered. The system is so precise, that even the slightest discrepancy is detected. This may well be a landmark for digital imaging in law enforcement and other documentary uses. [/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When the EOS-1Ds Mark II and EOS 20D user shoots with the verification system activated (P.Fn-31), a code is automatically generated based on the image contents and attached to the image. When the image is viewed, the data verification software determines the code for the image and compares it with the attached code. If the photo has been retouched in any way, the codes will not match, thus verifying that the image is not the original.

    319787.jpg
    [/font]
    "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
  • cletuscletus Registered Users Posts: 1,930 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    fish wrote:
    When the EOS-1Ds Mark II and EOS 20D user shoots with the verification system activated (P.Fn-31), a code is automatically generated based on the image contents and attached to the image. When the image is viewed, the data verification software determines the code for the image and compares it with the attached code. If the photo has been retouched in any way, the codes will not match, thus verifying that the image is not the original.
    Hmmmm, sounds like there might be a market for a code generating plug-in for Photoshop naughty.gif
  • Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited January 2, 2005
    andy wrote:
    my dw just asked me yesterday... "honey, i thougth your camera was black and silver??" lol3.gif
    Laughing.gif....that was 3 cameras ago rolleyes1.gif She must be blinded by all that sparkling Tiffany's jewelery :lol


    IMAX,
    Start another business. Go get a business license, print up some business cards and set up a site to sell pics (like a Smugmug Pro acct). Total cost should be under $300 per year. If you talk to your CPA, I believe most of your equipment expense will be tax deductable. Of course it would be nice to make some sort of profit, so that the you can apply the deduction. It doesn't help much if you don't sell any pics ne_nau.gif

    On second thought, how far do you live from Tiffany's?...lol

    Good luck,
    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
  • luckyrweluckyrwe Registered Users Posts: 952 Major grins
    edited January 2, 2005
    My gear deduction is limited. I am issued camera gear but I prefer to use my personal gear because I am more comfortable with it. Sorta makes it a little hard to deduct.
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