Toddler Portrait - Flash Question

thebigsky · December 15, 2006

Hi,

Here's an image I took of my daughter whilst experimenting with bouncing flash off of the ceiling.

I used the catchlight panel to try and ensure the eyes were still bright and that as many shadows were eliminated as possible. However the eyes still don't seem quite bright enough and there are still shadows in the neck/chin area.

I'm thinking of getting a Sto-Fen diffuser, do you think this will help or is it common practice to brighten the eyes further in PP and accept that some shadow is inevitable? I also seem to have spent ages playing with the colour balance, does it seem correct?

Sorry for all the questions but she's growing quickly and I'm not sure my photography is progressing as quickly.

Charlie

Scott_Quier · December 15, 2006

Love the shot - I had a nice chuckle. Your daughter is just too cute!

With respect to shadows, somthing to keep in mind: not all shadows are bad. The provide the basis for a 3D appearance to the photograph. Getting rid of the shadows reduces the effect to 2D and can make the image much less interesting. So, eliminating all shadows may not be what you are looking for.

It appears you are doing all the right things. You are bouncing the light off of a large surface - I'm guessing the ceiling - and you are attempting to create some fill for the shadows that will thereby result.

The Sto-Fen diffuser will improve the situation in that it will cause light to be distributed all around the room. When the light bounces off the walls, that will, in effect, give you a very large bounce card to help fill the shadows.

Check out the link in this thread. It may give you pause before you spend the money on the Sto-Fen diffuser (though the diffuser is not that much).

photogmomma · December 15, 2006

Scott_Quier wrote:

Love the shot - I had a nice chuckle. Your daughter is just too cute!

With respect to shadows, somthing to keep in mind: not all shadows are bad. The provide the basis for a 3D appearance to the photograph. Getting rid of the shadows reduces the effect to 2D and can make the image much less interesting. So, eliminating all shadows may not be what you are looking for.

It appears you are doing all the right things. You are bouncing the light off of a large surface - I'm guessing the ceiling - and you are attempting to create some fill for the shadows that will thereby result.

The Sto-Fen diffuser will improve the situation in that it will cause light to be distributed all around the room. When the light bounces off the walls, that will, in effect, give you a very large bounce card to help fill the shadows.

Check out the link in this thread. It may give you pause before you spend the money on the Sto-Fen diffuser (though the diffuser is not that much).

Awesome thread, Scott! Thanks a TON! Tried the one described in the video..... Works really well, but messes with white balance. Just as long as you're aware!

Cute, cute shot of your kiddo, thebigsky! Definitely read that thread and you'll have it made.

Color looks good to me! If you ahve lots of problems, look at the WhiBal. Worth watchign the videos for that. It works really well for me and MUCH cheaper than an expo disk!

Elaine · December 15, 2006

Very cute shot! I'm not experienced enough to comment on the lighting...it looks pretty good to me.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the video on making a better bounce card. Now I'm inspired! First, I have to get an external flash!

Elaine

thebigsky · December 15, 2006

Thanks for the link Scott, I've decided to order a Sto-Fen as they're so cheap and give it a go, I never thought I'd start to like using flash as much as I do and whilst I still prefer natural light I don't feel as limited now that I'm learning the tricks of making flash look more natural (BTW I made the mistake of forgetting I had the flash angled straight up and was looking down at the camera when it fired, ouch, the back of my eyes ached for about an hour.)

She's a cutie alright, bless her, she's just turned 1 and had quite a year. We spent last Christmas sitting with her in the cardiac intensive care unit at Great Ormond Street Hospital as she was born with congenital heart disease and required open heart surgery at 2 weeks old. So we're looking forward to our first Christmas at home with her, though it's slightly overshadowed by the fact she has more surgery scheduled for early in the new year.

Thanks also you photogmoma and Elaine for your comments.

Charlie

Murphy66 · December 16, 2006

LIGHTSPHERE!

Get a LightSphere on Gary Fong's website. It's like studio lighting using a flash.

I have two and my wife has one. Unbelievable results.

BTW, I'm not paid to type this, check it out for yourself.

Cason · December 17, 2006

If you were bouncing straight off the ceiling then the light would be hitting straight down. That is why you are seeing deep shadows around the eye sockets, nostrils, and neck. Same effect as if the sun were high in the sky.

I 2nd that on the Lightsphere.

Scott_Quier · December 17, 2006

Murphy66 wrote:

LIGHTSPHERE!

Get a LightSphere on Gary Fong's website. It's like studio lighting using a flash.

I have two and my wife has one. Unbelievable results.

BTW, I'm not paid to type this, check it out for yourself.

This is offer up as "food for thought" not as a slam on anyone's opinion. I have an LSPJ and have gotten very, very good results with it. I would continue to use it if it weren't so heavy/bulky. I find it a pain to carry around in your bag and it's kind heavy when attached to the flash and you are moving the camera/flash rig from portrait to landscape. I know as I've done it for 2 weddings.

Saw the link to the Better Bounce card video. Looked for the parts (foamy type paper) and found it at Michaels for $0.97 per 18" x 12" sheet. I cut two BBCs from one sheet with enough left over for at least 2 more.

Mounted one on my flash with a medium weight rubber band (OfficeMax, size 64, 1/4" wide x 7" circumference) doubled around the flash head and went to a party. Understand, please, that these photos are really not much more than snapshots, but look at at the lighting (bounced off white suspended ceiling)..

This first one, I think I had the BBC turned away from the subjects, so they go more of a glow through the card (I was maybe 6' feet from them).

Something of interest to note on this shot - look at the guy's sleeve. It's not blown. And, he wasn't very far from the flash, maybe 8 - 10 feet?

Shadows in this last one are a small problem. I didn't have my flash bracket with me and this was shot in portrait mode. Get the flash over the lens "where it belongs" and this problem will go away or, at least, be significantly reduced. Even so, the shadows are really not that bad.

exif summary: Canon 30D, 17-55 @ f/4, ISO: 100, SS: 1/60, speedlite 580EX on ETTL.

ziggy53 · December 17, 2006

Scott_Quier wrote:

This is offer up as "food for thought" not as a slam on anyone's opinion. I have an LSPJ and have gotten very, very good results with it. I would continue to use it if it weren't so heavy/bulky. I find it a pain to carry around in your bag and it's kind heavy when attached to the flash and you are moving the camera/flash rig from portrait to landscape. I know as I've done it for 2 weddings.

Saw the link to the Better Bounce card video. Looked for the parts (foamy type paper) and found it at Michaels for $0.97 per 18" x 12" sheet. I cut two BBCs from one sheet with enough left over for at least 2 more.

Mounted one on my flash with a medium weight rubber band (OfficeMax, size 64, 1/4" wide x 7" circumference) doubled around the flash head and went to a party. Understand, please, that these photos are really not much more than snapshots, but look at at the lighting (bounced off white suspended ceiling)..

This first one, I think I had the BBC turned away from the subjects, so they go more of a glow through the card (I was maybe 6' feet from them).

Something of interest to note on this shot - look at the guy's sleeve. It's not blown. And, he wasn't very far from the flash, maybe 8 - 10 feet?

Shadows in this last one are a small problem. I didn't have my flash bracket with me and this was shot in portrait mode. Get the flash over the lens "where it belongs" and this problem will go away or, at least, be significantly reduced. Even so, the shadows are really not that bad.

exif summary: Canon 30D, 17-55 @ f/4, ISO: 100, SS: 1/60, speedlite 580EX on ETTL.

Scott,

That's pretty impressive for such a simple device, and similar to my results for both the "folded paper" trick and the "business card" trick (a smaller reflector is typically used when closer to the subject).

Definitely a big improvement over either direct flash or bounce alone.

ziggy53

LiquidAir · December 17, 2006

A small bounce card is more about catchlights in the eyes the filling in those shadows. For a good quality ceiling bounce, make sure you are at least twice as far from your subject as the camera is from the ceiling. If you are standing in a room with a standard 8 foot ceiling that probably means 5-6 feet. When you were taking a picture of your daughter you and she were likely much further from the ceiling so the distance needs to be greater. To get a shot like that one, you will probably want to be at least 10-12 feet from her which likely has you shooting with a 135-200mm lens. If you want to get enough light from the bounce card to fill the shadows, you likely need a bigger card. Try buying a 1 foot square chunk of foam core and attaching it to the flash with velcro.

On a final note, personally, I use ceiling bounce only for candids. If I have any time to set up for a shot, the flash goes on a stand with an umbrella.

thebigsky · December 18, 2006

LiquidAir wrote:

When you were taking a picture of your daughter you and she were likely much further from the ceiling so the distance needs to be greater. To get a shot like that one, you will probably want to be at least 10-12 feet from her which likely has you shooting with a 135-200mm lens.

Thanks for your help, you're correct I was very close when taking the picture, I'll try again with my 70-200 so I'm further away and the Sto-fen has arrived now so I'll also see what results that gives me.

BTW this thread is turning out to be very helpful, thanks everyone.

Charlie

Toddler Portrait - Flash Question

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